Lilserenity
Well-known
Hiya,
Seeing as the main issue is my Ultron lens rather than my Leica M2 I put it in this forum section.
This week I got back from around 160 miles of walking and I took my M2 and Ultron with me for the journey. The M2 held up fine and the Ultron was holding up pretty good for most the journey until Day 12 of 14. What has happened is that the three back screws that hold the screw mount to the lens started coming loose. I guess you could expect this after by then a good 135-40 miles bobbing up and down around my neck up and down well, the North Downs
I did manage to get these screws tightened in Canterbury but what happened was that when you moved the lens around to infinity, it would be off, i.e. the RF patch was not aligned with a distant object e.g. a house, street light column or chimney stack maybe. I tried the same with my Canon Serenar 50mm and that was fine at infinity so it's not the M2.
On getting back as its under Robert White said it would be fine to send it back as it's under warranty (had it 5 months now) to get it adjusted, but I'm told the turnaround is 4 weeks or so, a long time for me to be without my beloved 35mm Ultron!
I have since retightened the screws and think I have managed to get it right. I did some test shots on Acros developed in Xtol stock but the results have been pretty awful, that said I'm not overly keen on Acros in Xtol (great for FP4 and Tri-X though) as it happens but it's all I have. The negatives look a bit soft.
The question I am trying to ask is, if the RF patch on my M2 in this case is showing itself to be 'in focus' with the object you are focussing on, will it be, or does the lens need some real precision adjustment, i.e. can the RF coupling/patch be 'fooled' and show focus is correct when it's in fact not? As I say there are no issues on my 50mm Serenar.
I know this sounds like a really jumbly question but I just wanted to know if my very basic adjustment (a tightening of screws) is enough.
I guess I'm vainly hoping that I won't be without my beloved Ultron for 5 months.
The second question is, has anyone else had this?
The Ultron is a cracking lens in my book but I do need something that will last as I will be doing similar jaunts at least once a year, sometimes tougher terrain too (West Highland Way, Offa's Dyke etc.)
Anyway sorry for the awfully worded questions, I have tried! *grins*
Vicky
Seeing as the main issue is my Ultron lens rather than my Leica M2 I put it in this forum section.
This week I got back from around 160 miles of walking and I took my M2 and Ultron with me for the journey. The M2 held up fine and the Ultron was holding up pretty good for most the journey until Day 12 of 14. What has happened is that the three back screws that hold the screw mount to the lens started coming loose. I guess you could expect this after by then a good 135-40 miles bobbing up and down around my neck up and down well, the North Downs
I did manage to get these screws tightened in Canterbury but what happened was that when you moved the lens around to infinity, it would be off, i.e. the RF patch was not aligned with a distant object e.g. a house, street light column or chimney stack maybe. I tried the same with my Canon Serenar 50mm and that was fine at infinity so it's not the M2.
On getting back as its under Robert White said it would be fine to send it back as it's under warranty (had it 5 months now) to get it adjusted, but I'm told the turnaround is 4 weeks or so, a long time for me to be without my beloved 35mm Ultron!
I have since retightened the screws and think I have managed to get it right. I did some test shots on Acros developed in Xtol stock but the results have been pretty awful, that said I'm not overly keen on Acros in Xtol (great for FP4 and Tri-X though) as it happens but it's all I have. The negatives look a bit soft.
The question I am trying to ask is, if the RF patch on my M2 in this case is showing itself to be 'in focus' with the object you are focussing on, will it be, or does the lens need some real precision adjustment, i.e. can the RF coupling/patch be 'fooled' and show focus is correct when it's in fact not? As I say there are no issues on my 50mm Serenar.
I know this sounds like a really jumbly question but I just wanted to know if my very basic adjustment (a tightening of screws) is enough.
I guess I'm vainly hoping that I won't be without my beloved Ultron for 5 months.
The second question is, has anyone else had this?
The Ultron is a cracking lens in my book but I do need something that will last as I will be doing similar jaunts at least once a year, sometimes tougher terrain too (West Highland Way, Offa's Dyke etc.)
Anyway sorry for the awfully worded questions, I have tried! *grins*
Vicky
mr_phillip
Well-known
Personally, if it's under warranty then I'd absolutely send it off for the fix. It's not just the present you need to think about, but what if the issue recurs in future, like once the guarantee's out. Also there's a trust issue - will you spend all your time wondering if the lens is going to give out?
If you're concerned about being out a lens for the duration of the fix, and you can't find a loaner to tide you over, then try picking up a Soviet Jupiter 12 with a screw adaptor. Cheap and usable, and when you come to sell it on you should pretty much get your money back.
If you're concerned about being out a lens for the duration of the fix, and you can't find a loaner to tide you over, then try picking up a Soviet Jupiter 12 with a screw adaptor. Cheap and usable, and when you come to sell it on you should pretty much get your money back.
Lilserenity
Well-known
I think you are indeed right, I should just send it off. I'll look out for a Jupiter or something too.
OurManInTangier
An Undesirable
Send it away to be fixed. Better to be without it for a while and get it back as it should be than keep it and constantly have nagging doubts.
Lilserenity
Well-known
It's packaged and will be sent on Monday.
It was the obvious answer and I knew it really, I'm sure you can appreciate how horrible it is not to have a lens you love potentially for so long.
In the meantime I have ordered a 50mm VC adapter for my M2 which I have needed for a long time but this has given me the kick up the backside to finally order (well, it's more the money than anything!)
Vicky
It was the obvious answer and I knew it really, I'm sure you can appreciate how horrible it is not to have a lens you love potentially for so long.
In the meantime I have ordered a 50mm VC adapter for my M2 which I have needed for a long time but this has given me the kick up the backside to finally order (well, it's more the money than anything!)
Vicky
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Vicky, you could've spared the rear and used the 35/135 adapter with the 50mm. All it needs on an M is left-handed fiddling. Mind you, I've always had the correct adapters for the LTM lenses I've used on M bodies. Changing lenses in the field is bad enough: I wouldn't want to be fiddling with damn adapters also. Besides, I need my left hand for focussing.
Can't see why loose screws on the Ultron should mess up the focus register. It should've become OK again once you tightened the screws. Doesn't seem to be any chance of losing a shim unless all screws come completely undone. Could you please post on this thread if you happen to find out what exactly went wrong? I need to worry as I have the same lens.
Can't see why loose screws on the Ultron should mess up the focus register. It should've become OK again once you tightened the screws. Doesn't seem to be any chance of losing a shim unless all screws come completely undone. Could you please post on this thread if you happen to find out what exactly went wrong? I need to worry as I have the same lens.
ferider
Veteran
Hi Vicky,
no need to send the lens in, this is quite easy to fix yourself. Under the focus mount you will find three more screws that lock a movable ring. They might have become loose as well. Moving the black ring does adjust the RF alignment.
So: remove the mount. See if the 3 black screws underneath are loose. If not, the misalignment is only due to the lens mount. If the black screws are loose put the ring back into position (you will likely see how it sat, since the black paint on the RF adjustment ring will show you screw marks). Tighten the screws, put the mount back on, tighten the screws. You might want to use nail polish or lock-tite on all 6 screws.
Here is a picture:
It's a 10' procedure with the right screw driver.
Best,
Roland.
no need to send the lens in, this is quite easy to fix yourself. Under the focus mount you will find three more screws that lock a movable ring. They might have become loose as well. Moving the black ring does adjust the RF alignment.
So: remove the mount. See if the 3 black screws underneath are loose. If not, the misalignment is only due to the lens mount. If the black screws are loose put the ring back into position (you will likely see how it sat, since the black paint on the RF adjustment ring will show you screw marks). Tighten the screws, put the mount back on, tighten the screws. You might want to use nail polish or lock-tite on all 6 screws.
Here is a picture:
It's a 10' procedure with the right screw driver.
Best,
Roland.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Good to know this, Roland. Thank you.
Lilserenity
Well-known
Wow despite some very badly worded jumble I have some fantastic answers. Thank you ever so much!
ON the first matter using the 35-135 adapter on the 50mm, that's what i have been doing for some time now, but it is cumbersome and I too use my left hand to focus to flicking that frame preview lever makes the process all a little slow and not as slick, especially for street. I'm also a 'member' of the Cartier-Bresson club of don't crop when printing. Well, not that I never do it but generally I much prefer to get it as right as I can on the negative so 'guessing' 50mm doesn't sit happily with me and people's ears have gone missing with me guessing 50mm
As you also say, it also imrpoves changing lenses.
--
On the matter of what went wrong, fixing it myself. Well, piqued by this I decided to remove the back plate. I was wary because I have messed things up before which have taken me literally days to get right again (I'm no lens/optics engineer!) and on taking it off, the screws for the black ring underneath were loose and slipping which was causing presumably the RF patch when focussing to stop moving when focussing and then suddenly start moving again the more I turned the focussing ring, basically it was slipping.
I have no adjusted these screws and it seems to focus fine, ie: the nearest point of focus does indeed appear to be 3ft away and the infinty point does appear to align with distant objects. One thing I will say is I couldn't tigten the screws on the black ring too much as then it seemed to stop the focussing ring moving freely and it would get stuck. Mind you, I had to tweak the 'position' a little of the ring to let the lens go in and out the full range of distance between 3ft and infinity and there were no screw marks on the black ring I could see so it was more luck than judgement.
So this brings me to this dumb question: my RF patch and M2 when this lens is set to infnity looks right, so presumably it is right now, the RF patch can't be fooled?
The lens feels completely back to normal now as well.
--
In summation I still think the Ultron is a stupendous lens and for the price I am baffled! Granted I don't often use it wide open but anywhere from f/2.8 to f/16 it's superb.
I will shoot a roll of FP4 this weekend and get it processed in Xtol, I did some tests with Acros in Xtol and I really don't like it (shame as I love Xtol hey ho) but I know that the classic emulsions like PanF, PX125/FP4 and Tri-X love the stuff so then I'll know for sure if it's good, and if it is I'll use some nail polish and coat the tips of the screws and re-seat them.
I think if you saw how hard the lens worked and indeed how much my M2 swung back and forth against me up and down climbs etc., you'd forgive any lens not having some little ailment afterwards.
In normal use this would not happen, but I was trekking for 160 miles up and down, day after day and really pushing the equipment so I have no qualms with CV, I have no time for badge pride or snobbery if the equipment chucks out good photos!
Will upload some pics myself when my new phone arrives today, my current one is on the blink and I can't get photos transferred to the PC easily. Digital eh
ON the first matter using the 35-135 adapter on the 50mm, that's what i have been doing for some time now, but it is cumbersome and I too use my left hand to focus to flicking that frame preview lever makes the process all a little slow and not as slick, especially for street. I'm also a 'member' of the Cartier-Bresson club of don't crop when printing. Well, not that I never do it but generally I much prefer to get it as right as I can on the negative so 'guessing' 50mm doesn't sit happily with me and people's ears have gone missing with me guessing 50mm
As you also say, it also imrpoves changing lenses.
--
On the matter of what went wrong, fixing it myself. Well, piqued by this I decided to remove the back plate. I was wary because I have messed things up before which have taken me literally days to get right again (I'm no lens/optics engineer!) and on taking it off, the screws for the black ring underneath were loose and slipping which was causing presumably the RF patch when focussing to stop moving when focussing and then suddenly start moving again the more I turned the focussing ring, basically it was slipping.
I have no adjusted these screws and it seems to focus fine, ie: the nearest point of focus does indeed appear to be 3ft away and the infinty point does appear to align with distant objects. One thing I will say is I couldn't tigten the screws on the black ring too much as then it seemed to stop the focussing ring moving freely and it would get stuck. Mind you, I had to tweak the 'position' a little of the ring to let the lens go in and out the full range of distance between 3ft and infinity and there were no screw marks on the black ring I could see so it was more luck than judgement.
So this brings me to this dumb question: my RF patch and M2 when this lens is set to infnity looks right, so presumably it is right now, the RF patch can't be fooled?
The lens feels completely back to normal now as well.
--
In summation I still think the Ultron is a stupendous lens and for the price I am baffled! Granted I don't often use it wide open but anywhere from f/2.8 to f/16 it's superb.
I will shoot a roll of FP4 this weekend and get it processed in Xtol, I did some tests with Acros in Xtol and I really don't like it (shame as I love Xtol hey ho) but I know that the classic emulsions like PanF, PX125/FP4 and Tri-X love the stuff so then I'll know for sure if it's good, and if it is I'll use some nail polish and coat the tips of the screws and re-seat them.
I think if you saw how hard the lens worked and indeed how much my M2 swung back and forth against me up and down climbs etc., you'd forgive any lens not having some little ailment afterwards.
In normal use this would not happen, but I was trekking for 160 miles up and down, day after day and really pushing the equipment so I have no qualms with CV, I have no time for badge pride or snobbery if the equipment chucks out good photos!
Will upload some pics myself when my new phone arrives today, my current one is on the blink and I can't get photos transferred to the PC easily. Digital eh
ferider
Veteran
Glad it's back to normal.
That is correct - well your photos will tell you, too
Do consider putting a small drop of nail polish on each of the black screws, so that it won't happen again.
Best,
Roland.
That is correct - well your photos will tell you, too
Do consider putting a small drop of nail polish on each of the black screws, so that it won't happen again.
Best,
Roland.
payasam
a.k.a. Mukul Dube
Happy days are here again...
I'm afraid this matter, easy though it is to resolve, cannot be called anything other than improper design and manufacturing.
I'm afraid this matter, easy though it is to resolve, cannot be called anything other than improper design and manufacturing.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Vicky,
If there is that much jostling around on your extended walks (which I quite admire!), I would think another carry method might be advisable. Perhaps the Y strap that one of our members makes, or a small belt pouch/bag. When hiking one doesn't usually need quick shooting capability, so the bag/pouch solution might be acceptable.
If there is that much jostling around on your extended walks (which I quite admire!), I would think another carry method might be advisable. Perhaps the Y strap that one of our members makes, or a small belt pouch/bag. When hiking one doesn't usually need quick shooting capability, so the bag/pouch solution might be acceptable.
Lilserenity
Well-known
Well I didn't want to say it but I had a funny feeling that a Leitz Summicron probably wouldn't have failed like this.
Once I am satisified the results are bang on when I process this roll of FP4 today I'll apply some nail polish on all screws and hope that with having answered the question also re: the strap it won't happen again.
Lilserenity
Well-known
Glad it's back to normal.
That is correct - well your photos will tell you, too
Do consider putting a small drop of nail polish on each of the black screws, so that it won't happen again.
Absolutely will do once I know the photos are good! Many thanks for your help!
Lilserenity
Well-known
That was to be my next question of sorts at some point because even though I go walking just for day trips a lot, I think the extra weight being carried on my back (about 35-40lbs at least) I think it was almost as if it added some inertia that made the camera swing about which it doesn't when I'm off out walking with just my satchel.
I was thinking along the way about ways that a strap could sort all this swinging about all over the shop.
I admit I do like to keep the camera pretty close to hand as if it's in my pack or I have to take the pack off to get to it, chances are I'll just say to myself "Ahhh nevermind, just remember what it's like instead!" -- but absolutely, I need something more substantial than my Lowepro strap which is very very good for everything else. (By very good I mean I can walk all day without it rubbing or hurting!)
Thanks!
Svitantti
Well-known
I am thinking this could be because of the adapter, not because the lens would be off. My Ultron goes past infinity, but focuses correctly closer. This would mean the adapter is too "thin". Infinity marking on the lense clearly misaligns when attached to the body, meaning it is not directly centered.
Lilserenity
Well-known
Nah it's not the adapter, the lens lines up perfectly with the black dot to the upright vertical if that makes sense. I use CV LTM adapters and they've been superb even if they are pricy. Just got the 50mm one and it's just as good.
Good thought though, I hadn't considered that!
Vicky
Lilserenity
Well-known
Well having adjusted the lens and hoping all was well, it seems not. It seem something more serious is wrong.
Two weeks ago I went out with a local photographers group I go to regularly armed with the Ultron and my Canon Serenar 50mm. The 50mm's pics were sharp and in focus and as per usual. Any photos taken with the 35mm seemed soft and out of focus, on the same roll of film therefore the same developer + time + etc.
I used a red filter though and thought maybe that was in need of a good clean. So this week I shot a roll of PanF at ISO 50, no filters and recorded the exposures, none of which dipped below 1/60th. I shot a deliberately slow film known for being sharp and one I know for being sharp.
The result is again a bunch of very soft out of focus pictures. I can't even say it's because the focus is elsewhere in the photo as nothing appears sharp.
Which has lead me to potentially believe one of the lens elements may have come loose or something.
I know how sharp this lens was at least, so I know something is not right at all. I've got the box and receipt and will send it to Robert White for some attention. I know it's had a rough 6 months with me but I'd expect my photographic equipment to last a lot longer than that!
I'll post the outcome here. :/
I hope it didn't become damaged in my bag at any time (it was in the top compartment now and then as I would use the 50mm for fits and spurts, and I couldn't carry the 35mm in my pockets as that's a recipe for disaster.
The lens looks clean and fine looking through it sp...
*sigh*
We'll see.
Vicky
Lilserenity
Well-known
Well, I got some news today. Robert White have kindly lent me a Color Skopar 35mm as the Ultron has been with them some time now.
The news today is Cosina presumably say it was dropped but it's never been dropped in my hands. It may have had a bump or two in my bag but nothing more than that. I explained again what lead me to send it in for repair in the first place and that the way the lens came apart was something I have never had on any other lens, Cosina, Leica, Canon or Olympus.
We'll see what happens but what the problem is I don't know
We will just have to wait and see.
Vicky
The news today is Cosina presumably say it was dropped but it's never been dropped in my hands. It may have had a bump or two in my bag but nothing more than that. I explained again what lead me to send it in for repair in the first place and that the way the lens came apart was something I have never had on any other lens, Cosina, Leica, Canon or Olympus.
We'll see what happens but what the problem is I don't know
We will just have to wait and see.
Vicky
Erik van Straten
Veteran
I hope everything will turn out right. The Ultron is one of my favorites too.
Erik.