2003 Leica prices

[chris91387]

wow. this is from the 2003 B&H Catalog

 

[Fjäll]

That MP is $4000 adjusted for inflation. The MP could be a lot more expensive

 

[boojum]

How big were paychecks 19 years ago?

 

[Nitroplait]

2003 was around the time where many were dumping their M systems because the outlook for a digital path for the system was bleak.

On photo.net, I recall members of the Leica forum were selling mint M6(classics) and M6 TTL in the $1000-1200 price range often with remaining no-fault-passport warranty.

 

[astrosecret]

i remember selling my current gen summicron around 2010 for $900 lol. and buying an m3 for $500 on this forum

 

[Ko.Fe.]

i remember selling my current gen summicron around 2010 for $900 lol. and buying an m3 for $500 on this forum

I managed to get my M4-2 from Japan for under 700 (tax and shipping included) in 2015. And around 2017 I could get ex-HelenHill's 35 Lux for around 1300, but went with new Summarit-M 35 2.5 for around 1150. Used 35 crons were slightly above 1000 around 2017 as well.

This "adjusted to inflation" which is in real life just a greed, helps Chinese Artisans and CV to sell their M lenses.

 

[astrosecret]

absolutely and those japanese sellers gaming the market with a million different accounts despite being only a few different individuals. i think you will begin to see used prices coming down now that the recession is here and color 35mm film is like $1 a shot when all is said and done. the gear is only getting older and more used. somehow i picked up a summaron 35mm 2.8 with eyes for about 600 recently. probably twice what it cost in 2010 but i see it selling for 800-1200 depending on the venue. the fact anyone is paying more than 2k for an m6 is indicative of something wrong imo.

 

[helen.HH]

I do Agree with those that say today's prices are greed,
PURE Greed, in for the kill....but hey,, greed has been around a very looooong time

and agree pricing is going to drop ... real estate is now dropping
the World heading into recession, depression mode

so Rejoice with what You have...Life is good

 

[Nitroplait]

I do Agree with those that say today's prices are greed,
PURE Greed, in for the kill....but hey,, greed has been around a very looooong time

It made me think of a transaction I made some years ago.

I had bought a box of stuff which included a Leica branded cap with an unusual diameter.
I asked on an online forum what lens the cap may fit, and was told it was a rare cap for a specific lens (don't remember which).

I didn't need it, but needed a regular rear cap for an M lens. I offered the cap on the forum for someone who owned the lens and didn't have the cap, in a one to one exchange for a regular Leica M branded rear cap.
(I could have bought a generic M lens rear cap for less than the postage in this transaction)

The first person who responded (a regular contributor on the forum) that claimed he would be happy with the cap for his lens, got it.
I sent him the cap, and I received a Leica M rear cap with a crack - one of those cracks where it is visibly clear that the crack had been there for years.

I politely pointed out the issue, but he defensively claimed that the cap I sent him was dented in transit so we were even.
Two days later, on the same site, he put up for sale the cap I had sent him, advertised as in "mint" condition at the regular bloated collectors price.

I didn't loose anything, but I certainly felt stupid.

To this day I still don't know what lesson I should learn from this transaction.

I don't think I would still recall this incident with irritation if I had just sold the cap at the bloated price, yet I fundamentally don't want to support greed, as you point out.
But do I want to support other people's greed?

 

[jsrockit]

I am not sure it is pure greed from used sellers. They do
not dictate the prices people will buy at. New Leica lenses and bodies keep going up and the used stuff follows. Also, less and less is available as well. Couple that with inflation and supply chain issues and you get todays market.

 

[steveyork]

Circa 2003, Leica wasn't selling much, especially the R line which just sat on shelves. It was the digital paradigm shift, and before the digital M, rangefinders were very nitch. That's why Leica had to offer big discounts to move products (still expensive though!). 2005 was even worse and talk of Leica going out of business. I got then some lenses at dealer's cost! Then the digital M came along ... demand went up, and up, though the last couple of years has seen an explosion of used prices. Inflation? Pandemic? Bigger market? Leica keeps jacking up new prices?

 

[Nitroplait]

Circa 2003, Leica wasn't selling much, especially the R line which just sat on shelves. It was the digital paradigm shift, and before the digital M, rangefinders were very nitch. That's why Leica had to offer big discounts to move products (still expensive though!). 2005 was even worse and talk of Leica going out of business. I got then some lenses at dealer's cost! Then the digital M came along ... demand went up, and up, though the last couple of years has seen an explosion of used prices. Inflation? Pandemic? Bigger market? Leica keeps jacking up new prices?

There was an important and very confusing period around there, where Leica announced that they would "never" be able to make a digital M, and they introduced the digital back for the R8 and R9. The last of the hopelessly many Leica attempts to create a (d)slr future for the company and ignoring their long established rangefinder camera strengths.
(I often wonder where Leica would have been if they never used R&D resources on SLR cameras and solely focused only on their rangefinders)

For a short period around this time, used M prices were in free fall.

If I recall correctly, the mirrorless Panasonic G (micro4/3) suddenly showed up and gave hope for a future digital platform for M glass which broke the free-fall curve as we now had a digital possibility to use our M/LTM lenses.

 

[Beemermark]

Will one of you greedy people sell me a mintish MP body for $2500?

 

[JeffS7444]

Leica's done what other camera makers have done: Fewer but higher-end models for the well-to-do demographic that still buys new cameras.

 

[boojum]

You are seeing free-market capitalism. The price will go up as far as it can. There will always be folks buying Porches who cannot drive, Nautors Swans who cannot sail, and glamorous kitchens who cannot cook. They do know how to make money.

 

[Bolo Kukus]

Yes, prices were so much lower then. And we were all 19 years younger...

Oddly, most M Leicas have vanished almost entirely from the used camera market in Australia. Those few sellers left on the scene are trying (quite vainly, I rather suspect) to flog worn-out models for $2000-$3000 (Australian dollars), but their listings seem to be running for long time periods. LTM gear is also selling quite flat, maybe reflecting the lack of really good user condition cameras on the shelves. The best gear is staying put in collectors' camera cabinets.

I had Ms in the 1980s when they were as prolific as eggs in a supermarket. Not cheap, but they were there. Sadly, I had to sell my entire kit (M2 and M3, and oh, how I loved them!!) to keep my architectural practice going when times were "difficult", ditto my good Hasselblad gear in the late 2000s when th GFC hit us hard and office redevelopment projects became as rare as diamond rings lost on the street.

The "positives" about Leica gear, of course, is the older cameras and lenses were made in such high quality - my iiif and small collection of 1950s LTM lenses all function almost as good as new, and I have the added satisfaction that if (or probably when) something goes wrong with any Leitz gear I own, I can easily (if not exactly cheaply) get it fixed without sending it to Germany. Fortunately my gorgeous one-owner (before I acquired it) iiif is in such great working condition, the CLA I had done on it last year will, I hope, last me out. One lens (the 50/2.0 collapsible Summicron I was gifted by a very kind neighbor who saw me out with the camera and the 50/j3.5 Elmar it came with) had to be dismantled and de-hazed, which was done quickly and most efficiently by an optical company in Tasmania, without costing me my second kidney.

Alas, we never did enjoy such cheap prices for Leitz gear in Australia, that you lucky shooters in North America did. In 2002 or 2003, a friend in Melbourne bought an as-new (I recall it was a demo model) M6 with a Summicron 50/2.0 for AUD$6600. Which I thought was expensive at the time, but now, well, as we oldies tend to say a lot, "sigh".

These days I no longer even look at Leica prices. I did miss a well-used M9 (with I suspect the dreaded sensor corrosion) for $1400 in Michael's Camera window in Melbourne. Oddly, the camera stayed unloved for at least two weeks before someone twigged and bought it. I do wish it was me, but as I value my home life, it's for the best that I didn't leap at it.

Good gear lasts. But I wish I could pick up a new M6 TTL for <$2300, even in US dollars at the time it would have cost <$3000 Australian...

 

[chris91387]

no flaming please but my black .72 MP is on the way to me right now. I've been on a waitlist for 18 months. it was $5695 ($500 more than when I originally pre-ordered it!). This is my dream camera and have lusted over one for years. I have budgeted and saved for it and look forward to being the original owner and having all the paperwork & boxes....and not have to buy it from some odd seller overseas on Ebay. I can't imagine Leica making these for much longer and trust that it will (relatively) hold it's value. And I promise to you all to run some film through it as that's what it was meant to do. I'm not a "camera collector" despite how my wife may classify me. It will work side-by-side with my trusty M4-P until I am no longer able to get out and shoot. I literally can't wait to get out and play with the beauty.

 

[Retro-Grouch]

no flaming please but my black .72 MP is on the way to me right now. I've been on a waitlist for 18 months. it was $5695 ($500 more than when I originally pre-ordered it!). This is my dream camera and have lusted over one for years. I have budgeted and saved for it and look forward to being the original owner and having all the paperwork & boxes....and not have to buy it from some odd seller overseas on Ebay. I can't imagine Leica making these for much longer and trust that it will (relatively) hold it's value. And I promise to you all to run some film through it as that's what it was meant to do. I'm not a "camera collector" despite how my wife may classify me. It will work side-by-side with my trusty M4-P until I am no longer able to get out and shoot. I literally can't wait to get out and play with the beauty.

No flaming at all, rather, my congratulations!

 

[farlymac]

For one thing, the pandemic found a lot of folks sitting around home not doing anything, but with plenty of money to spend. They started going online, checking out which cameras were good for film photography, and then proceeded to buy up everything that was of any decent design. I noticed how all of a sudden dealers that I had been buying from were running out of stock of anything Leica. Luckily I had already kitted out my M4-P, but the LTM stuff was getting scarce and pricier. Took a lot of searching to find decently priced items I needed to finish that kit. Some of my Leica gear is now selling for more than twice what I paid for it not that long ago. And with the proliferation of adapters on the market all the best lenses from any manufacturer are in high demand since they now can be used on almost any interchangeable lens digital camera. The market will probably calm down by the end of this year, but certain items will forever be in short stock.

I myself would have liked to have gotten a brand new film Leica M (A or P), but I had other priorities, and didn't feel like tying up that much money for a long period without the product. I kind of got in on the tail end of the "cheap Leica prices" cycle, wishing I had made my move a lot sooner. But hey, that's the way things roll, so I'm not going to complain. Instead I got a Nikon Z5 with an M and LTM adapters so I can use my rangefinder lenses on a digital camera at a smaller expense.

Congrats to chris91387 for following his dream!

PF

 

[raydm6]

no flaming please but my black .72 MP is on the way to me right now. I've been on a waitlist for 18 months. it was $5695 ($500 more than when I originally pre-ordered it!). This is my dream camera and have lusted over one for years. I have budgeted and saved for it and look forward to being the original owner and having all the paperwork & boxes....and not have to buy it from some odd seller overseas on Ebay. I can't imagine Leica making these for much longer and trust that it will (relatively) hold it's value. And I promise to you all to run some film through it as that's what it was meant to do. I'm not a "camera collector" despite how my wife may classify me. It will work side-by-side with my trusty M4-P until I am no longer able to get out and shoot. I literally can't wait to get out and play with the beauty.

Yes, congratulations! You deserve the camera. Enjoy! Life is too short.