28mm Lens on ZI vs Leica M

[notturtle]

I know quite a few people have commented on how the ZI's 28mm frame lines are somewhat easier to see than a 0.72 Leica for someone without glasses; however, I am wondering how significant this is. I find the 28mm lines on a 0.72 a pig as they are right up against the black and you lack 'feel' for the FL. So:

How much more space do you get with the ZI 28mm lines compared to the 0.72 and can anyone compare the ZI to the 0.58 finder on the M?

I have a 0.58 and find it wonderful with the 28mm but it is an incredibly expensive way of solving the problem of decent in camera frame lines for 28mm!

 

[aizan]

keep the .58, unless you're also planning to sell the 28mm.

 

[Bruin]

R4A... 0.52x finder (hardly less than 0.58) and single 28mm framelines with plenty of breathing room. Depends on how important that VF is to you, how particular you are about the body, cost savings, etc. but I thought I'd throw that out to muddy things up a bit 😀

Otherwise, the ZI is the best compromise for built-in VF range: decent 85 and 28, gorgeous 50 and 35. Like Double Negative, I shoot with a 25mm Biogon on mine all the time. How many people do that on a 0.72x M... and remember the ZI is higher magnification at 0.74x. Cosina must be doing something right with their VFs.

 

[notturtle]

I absolutely love my MPs but have been having strange thoughts about the ZI in a bid to free up some money for upcoming projects. The use of a single body type (of which I would use a number) for 28-50 would simplify things and as great as the R4a/m might be, its yet another different body. I would prefer to go into the field with 2-3 identical bodies in terms of control placement and handling.

I am not yet convinced about the robustness and reliability (RF drift etc) of the ZI, but if the finder is not a significant improvement over the 0.72M with a 28 then it makes no sense to even consider a switch as I would need a different body for the 28mm. At least with the Ms, all bodies handle the same and thats important to me. Switching bodies is 100% seamless. Metering is the same etc.

The M 0.58 I consider perfect with the 28 and the ZI would need to be close because I use this FL a lot at present. Sell 3 x MP and replace with used ZIs - do the math. Thats frees up money that can be put to good use; however, I have a feeling I might regret it. My Ms have been utterly reliable and never let me down.

 

[Bob Michaels]

Methinks you are way overemphasizing the importance of the camera body / frameline thing in relation to photography. It really is down in the noise when it comes to the quality of the actual photos. Maybe important to the camera equipment geeks but that is about all.

I have photographed with a number of different RF systems as well as a several SLR systems. You can quickly adapt to just about any of them. And it always boils down to >99% of the vision of the photographer and <1% equipment.

I had the chance to again review the Cuba work of a friend who is much more well know than I. Several years ago, she commented that I seemed to be "into the equipment thing" and asked for a suggestion. She said that her Mamiya 7 and 35mm equipment "seemed to be getting in the way of her photography" and asked for an equipment suggestion to take on a 2 week trip to Cuba. I loaned her an Olympus Stylus Epic P&S. She said she felt so liberated not having to worry about all that equipment on an important shoot. I am going to another exhibit of her Cuba photos next weekend.

 

[back alley]

You can quickly adapt to just about any of them...

right on !!!!

 

[Bruin]

The M 0.58 I consider perfect with the 28 and the ZI would need to be close because I use this FL a lot at present. Sell 3 x MP and replace with used ZIs - do the math. Thats frees up money that can be put to good use; however, I have a feeling I might regret it. My Ms have been utterly reliable and never let me down.

I don't own any Ms but think you might regret it, too 😱

If the 0.58 M is working for you, is it really worth the money to switch? OTOH, the ZI and R4x are pretty close in terms of control placement, so switching between them should be pretty easy.

Ok, sorry for moving the thread away from your original question. Whatever you do, good luck and good shooting!

 

[TJV]

I hate the 28mm lines on my 0.72x Leica's but, fortunately for me, I prefer using the 28mm with an external VF. I find the hyperfocal thing really liberating when working on the street.

 

[jonmanjiro]

Could always just buy a used ZI to try it, and sell it for what you paid if it doesn't work out.

 

[notturtle]

I am no equipment fetsishist. I would think the fact that I would be considering selling various mag Leica bodies so I could shoot a single cheaper body type covering all relevant FLs (with decent frame lines for 28) would make that clear. Honestly, you ask a simple question on this forum and either get ridiculous advice on lens idiosynscracies from inexperienced fetishists or the tired old line of 'equipment does not matter.'

Does equipment matter? Yes, it bloody well does, but this is subjective and limited. Using something you are comfortable with is what matters most of all. When considering equipment that technically performs up to the standard you need (and this may mean not sharp, flare etc) job, it becomes about handling and personal comfort. It is the latter that I am talking about.

The fact is I use 28mm a lot right now. It is important to me. I do not want to adapt to crappy frame lines; I want to get on with the photography without being uncomfortable and unable to see the way I want). I feel that the 28mm lines in the 0.72 are 'emergency lines' and are, well, rubbish for what I need (I want space around them); hence the 0.58. BUT, this is expensive and I resent that. I would like not to have to retain a $3+K body just to shoot 28mm with space around the frame lines. Selling up the Ms would give me the cash to shoot several upcoming projects.

 

[notturtle]

I have considered the external VF too. Not so much for 28, but 24/5 so I can drop a lens in the 21-28-35 range, but I do like using the RF here and there for 28, though I can live without for 21.

 

[drsimonwong]

How about a step down magnifier like the E Clypse 0.85?

 

[jonmanjiro]

I used to own an M6 TTL with 0.72 finder. The 28mm frame lines in that were, to quote TomA, "like an honest politician, they exist but nobody's seen one". I can see the 28mm framelines in my ZI a lot more easily (caveat - I don't wear glasses).

Like I said earlier, if you can, why not pick up a used ZI and try it. Save you selling off your expensive MPs, and later regretting it if the ZI doesn't work out, and you'll get most or all your money back on the ZI if you decide not to keep it.

 

[aizan]

if you have to sell something, sell the .72 mp. .58 is great for 28mm, and still fine for 50mm. you'd still have two mps, and both of them aren't .58, right?

 

[jonmanjiro]

Also, read this informative post by mfogiel. He has first hand experience with the finders you're interested in.

 

[notturtle]

Jonmanjiro,

I am thinking of doing just that. I might pick up one ZI body and see what I think. I can always sell it it. Still, its encouraging to hear that the 28mm lines are significantly bette than the 0.72... which would not be hard.

Aizan,

I would use three bodies as I like to keep my most used lenses attached most of the time. Also means if one packs up I have two available to keep shooting with. I would not want to sell a 0.72 as this is perfect for 35mm which I use even more than 28 and the second 0.72 I use with either the 21 or 50, depending.

It really comes down to freeing up money for shooting but without affecting the shooting. The set up I have now works well, only its expensive as hell and if I could do the same and free up $5-6k then thats tempting. I would only do it if it worked for me to sell ll the M bodies and switch to ZI complete.

I think I may have to try one. Problem is that means buying one as there are no Zeiss dealers here.

 

[TJV]

Do you use flash much? If not I'd really suggest trying and external VF as an experiment. For the M7 I'd get the Zeiss 25/28mm finder as it covers the focal lengths you've mentioned but you could wet your feet with a "cheap" CV metal finder to see if it's for you. I used to hate finders but when I got into 28mm I struggled with the same issues you mention so I dug one up and haven't looked back.

 

[notturtle]

I dont use flash at all. I dont mind the external finder for the 21 - I like it for dynamic close in action- but wonder whether if I mated the 35 with a 24/5, I might feel limited only having viewfinder coverage for 35mm and up. Right now, although 24/5 would be a better companion for the 35, 28 works nicely as I have an integral finder.

The 25/28 viewfinder does sound like it would be worth exploring. Then I could drop the 0.58, the 21 and 28 potentially (freeing up cash and reducing the kit carried). However, I like using the finder for the 28 very much and do a fair amount of work in which I focus the lens specifically on things as well as zone focus - prob about a 50-50 split.

I think I have to get my hands on a ZI and see the 28 lines for myself.

 

[kbg32]

Save some money and get the CV mini finder. You'll hardly know it's there until you need to use it. I use mine with my ,72 MP. It hardly adds anything to the camera.

 

[notturtle]

is the mini finder for 28 or 28 and 35 together? How do they compare to the stan alone finders (which I only have experience of in the form of the CV 21 finder).