nightfly
Well-known
I have an idea for a photo project which involves large photos of the ocean. I really want a larger format for this probably 4 x 5 but maybe 6 x 7 would work.
I don't like very futzy cameras, want something really basic. Don't need things like tilts etc. Just something with a wideish lens (28-35mm equivalent) and probably not super heavy or cumbersome because I'm lazy. Good optics would be nice, but don't require anything super sharp as I'm after overall mood not necessarily accuracy.
Most important something simple enough to actually use. For an idea of what I like, I have an M4-P and Rolleicord V and both of these are the sort of cameras that meet my needs.
Any ideas?
I don't like very futzy cameras, want something really basic. Don't need things like tilts etc. Just something with a wideish lens (28-35mm equivalent) and probably not super heavy or cumbersome because I'm lazy. Good optics would be nice, but don't require anything super sharp as I'm after overall mood not necessarily accuracy.
Most important something simple enough to actually use. For an idea of what I like, I have an M4-P and Rolleicord V and both of these are the sort of cameras that meet my needs.
Any ideas?
thetooth
Well-known
buy a graflex . bout as simple as you can get . 90mm lens is a equivalent focal length .
FrankS
Registered User
I'd suggest trying it with the cameras you have, and with that experience, go from there. No one but you really knows what you want to achieve.
nightfly
Well-known
I've tried this type of work with both smaller formats and realized I need something bigger.
Any recommendations on types of Graflex? Seems like there are tons of options.
Thanks
Any recommendations on types of Graflex? Seems like there are tons of options.
Thanks
kuzano
Veteran
Graflex XL rangefinder w/do 6X7 or 6X9
Graflex XL rangefinder w/do 6X7 or 6X9
Many back options. Also there is an 80mm lens option if you can find it. There is a Noritar 80, and I believe I've seen a Carl Zeiss 80mm. I had a Noritar, and it was good. The standard focal length is 100mm. You DO have to be picky on the focus helical. There are three focus tabs and make sure all 3 tabs are intact. That's the weak link on this camera... broken focus tabs. This is a much more transportable camera than a larger Graflex with a bellows.
Once you look at the Graflex XL press cameras, you should not overlook the Mamiya Universal Press cameras with interchangable lenses. Much more supply in the market and much more durable than the Graflex XL and comparable lens quality, if not better in most respects. Many lens options and many back options. Also a very accurate rangefinder mechanism when properly adjusted. The Mamiya's I have used generally had a better, brighter rangefinder than the XL's. No weaknesses in the focusing mechanism. Seiko shutters, etc.
Both the XL and the Mamiya Universal are hand holdable, but best on a tripod.
I think the other Graflex mentioned may have been 4X5 in which case a Crown, and even a Super will do what you want since movements aren't required. Then, the range of lenses is vast. You can then also use roll backs for the 120 formats, but make sure you get a camera with the Graflok slides.
Another option falls between the 4X5 Graphics and the XL Press camera from Graflex is the Century... a 2.25 X 3.25 press camera with bellows. Generally the Century is used with roll backs and again 6X7 and 6X9, with a multitude of lens options since the lenses are on interchangable boards much like the 4X5 bigger Graflex models.
Graflex XL rangefinder w/do 6X7 or 6X9
Many back options. Also there is an 80mm lens option if you can find it. There is a Noritar 80, and I believe I've seen a Carl Zeiss 80mm. I had a Noritar, and it was good. The standard focal length is 100mm. You DO have to be picky on the focus helical. There are three focus tabs and make sure all 3 tabs are intact. That's the weak link on this camera... broken focus tabs. This is a much more transportable camera than a larger Graflex with a bellows.
Once you look at the Graflex XL press cameras, you should not overlook the Mamiya Universal Press cameras with interchangable lenses. Much more supply in the market and much more durable than the Graflex XL and comparable lens quality, if not better in most respects. Many lens options and many back options. Also a very accurate rangefinder mechanism when properly adjusted. The Mamiya's I have used generally had a better, brighter rangefinder than the XL's. No weaknesses in the focusing mechanism. Seiko shutters, etc.
Both the XL and the Mamiya Universal are hand holdable, but best on a tripod.
I think the other Graflex mentioned may have been 4X5 in which case a Crown, and even a Super will do what you want since movements aren't required. Then, the range of lenses is vast. You can then also use roll backs for the 120 formats, but make sure you get a camera with the Graflok slides.
Another option falls between the 4X5 Graphics and the XL Press camera from Graflex is the Century... a 2.25 X 3.25 press camera with bellows. Generally the Century is used with roll backs and again 6X7 and 6X9, with a multitude of lens options since the lenses are on interchangable boards much like the 4X5 bigger Graflex models.
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nbphoto
Member
Mamiya 7 if you need portable. If you dont mind lugging a large camera and tripod then be a devil and go for a RZ67 with 50mm ULD or 65mm LA
colker
Well-known
get a 4x5 field camera. you want one.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
A good basic setup for LF is a working Speed-Graphic. It has a built-in shutter that allows you to use myriads of shutter-less lenses out there (cheaper and older for more "character" 
).
A Crown-Graphic is just a tad lighter (no built-in shutter) and some has more movement than Speeds, but you're stuck with lenses that has shutter on it (or pinhole).
Additional considerations:
- Lenses, the wider it is, the harder it is to use on an LF camera (both focusing and mounting). Stay within 90 ~ 120 mm range to begin with.
- You are most likely need to upgrade your tripod (bigger camera, sturdier tripod, just common sense).
- You need to buy film, and film holders, changing bag (go big), dark-cloth (go to your fabric store)
- Learn how to load film, *and* come up with a system to keep track of them (trust me, this is important).
- Decide how you're going to develop your film? B&W (just do it yourself), C-41? Slides? (labs are getting more expensive these days).
- A good flatbed scanner? or access to a drum scanner? or a really big enlarger...
And finally, LF photography is inherently "futzy" , but if I can do it, so can you...
).A Crown-Graphic is just a tad lighter (no built-in shutter) and some has more movement than Speeds, but you're stuck with lenses that has shutter on it (or pinhole).
Additional considerations:
- Lenses, the wider it is, the harder it is to use on an LF camera (both focusing and mounting). Stay within 90 ~ 120 mm range to begin with.
- You are most likely need to upgrade your tripod (bigger camera, sturdier tripod, just common sense).
- You need to buy film, and film holders, changing bag (go big), dark-cloth (go to your fabric store)
- Learn how to load film, *and* come up with a system to keep track of them (trust me, this is important).
- Decide how you're going to develop your film? B&W (just do it yourself), C-41? Slides? (labs are getting more expensive these days).
- A good flatbed scanner? or access to a drum scanner? or a really big enlarger...
And finally, LF photography is inherently "futzy"
, but if I can do it, so can you...
FrankS
Registered User
What Will said.
Also, Graphic cameras come with different back attachment systems. Be sure to get one with a Graflok system back as it is the most adaptable and is still current.
Also, Graphic cameras come with different back attachment systems. Be sure to get one with a Graflok system back as it is the most adaptable and is still current.
FrankS
Registered User
If you get interested in the Graphic cameras, here is a must read site: http://graflex.org/
Also, in 6x7 or 6x9 cameras, the Fuji rangefinders, while great cameras and lenses, have an inconvenient "T" setting instead of a "B" setting for long time exposures.
Also, in 6x7 or 6x9 cameras, the Fuji rangefinders, while great cameras and lenses, have an inconvenient "T" setting instead of a "B" setting for long time exposures.
Wiyum
Established
I can second the RZ67 w/ 65mm lens. That's a great setup, and a joy to use.
Granted, it is tripod-bound, and used as a counterpart to an always-handheld DSLR system. If I want to be slower, more deliberate, and methodical, I grab my RZ and it is perfect.
Granted, it is tripod-bound, and used as a counterpart to an always-handheld DSLR system. If I want to be slower, more deliberate, and methodical, I grab my RZ and it is perfect.
venchka
Veteran
I have your camera and love it.
1953 Pacemaker Speed Graphic with 1953 Kodak Ektar 127mm f/4.7 lens in a Supermatic (X) shutter.
The Speed Graphic also has a focal plane shutter. I use that with a 1908 Voigtlander 7 7/8" Collinear II barrel lens.
The Speed Graphic accepts roll film backs in 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9 formats. Maybe even 6x12. You will have to verify that yourself.
The camera has a rangefinder for hand held use and those times when you don't feel like looking at the ground glass. HOWEVER, the rangefinder is calibrated for the 127mm Ektar lens only.
The camera will work with normal lenses from 90mm (maybe shorter) up to about 250mm. There are a few telephoto lenses longer than 250mm that will work on the Speed Graphic.
My motley lens assortment includes:
Tominon 105mm lens & shutter from an old Polaroid copy camera.
The 127mm Ektar. Fine lens and very small.
1913 6" Bausch & Lomb Rapid Rectilinear. These lens cells share the same Supermatic (X) shutter with the Ektar. Each individual cell functions by itself or both together giving focal lengths of 6", 9 1/2" and 13 3/4". Also very small and light.
Nikkor-W 180mm/5.6 large modern marvel in a Copal #1 shutter.
7 7/8" Voigtlander Collinear II No. 4. Also convertible to about 300mm.
Enough options in lenses to last a lifetime or longer.
Oh yea, if I can shoot 4x5 film, develop the film myself, scan the film and make inkjet prints, ANYBODY can do it.
1953 Pacemaker Speed Graphic with 1953 Kodak Ektar 127mm f/4.7 lens in a Supermatic (X) shutter.
The Speed Graphic also has a focal plane shutter. I use that with a 1908 Voigtlander 7 7/8" Collinear II barrel lens.
The Speed Graphic accepts roll film backs in 6x6, 6x7 and 6x9 formats. Maybe even 6x12. You will have to verify that yourself.
The camera has a rangefinder for hand held use and those times when you don't feel like looking at the ground glass. HOWEVER, the rangefinder is calibrated for the 127mm Ektar lens only.
The camera will work with normal lenses from 90mm (maybe shorter) up to about 250mm. There are a few telephoto lenses longer than 250mm that will work on the Speed Graphic.
My motley lens assortment includes:
Tominon 105mm lens & shutter from an old Polaroid copy camera.
The 127mm Ektar. Fine lens and very small.
1913 6" Bausch & Lomb Rapid Rectilinear. These lens cells share the same Supermatic (X) shutter with the Ektar. Each individual cell functions by itself or both together giving focal lengths of 6", 9 1/2" and 13 3/4". Also very small and light.
Nikkor-W 180mm/5.6 large modern marvel in a Copal #1 shutter.
7 7/8" Voigtlander Collinear II No. 4. Also convertible to about 300mm.
Enough options in lenses to last a lifetime or longer.
Oh yea, if I can shoot 4x5 film, develop the film myself, scan the film and make inkjet prints, ANYBODY can do it.
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wallace
Well-known
What Frank said: If 6x7(9) is big enough, than the choice is easy: get the Texas Leica! (GSW)
Thomas
Thomas
blackwave
silver halide lover
Keep in mind two major working differences between the systems..
First is the obvious difference of roll flim vs. sheet. This means a difference in the volume of frames you shoot, loading film holders individually, price. Also, are you developing yourself or having a lab do it? If it's yourself, you'll have to either do it in a tank, tray process, or some other varient. It's a whole different deal than 35mm with different equipment, although the concept is the same. Sending to a lab the costs will be different as well. Also think about how you'll be printing/scanning.
The second is the working style. If you're planning to strap either one on a tripod then this isn't such a big deal. However, generally 4x5's are tripod-bound (with some exceptions already mentioned.) 6x7 can be handheld, even though they are a bit heavy besides the Mamiya 7.
Just a couple things to think about! Despite some of the trade-off's of 4x5, the image quality is outstanding. Some view the slower workflow as an asset in fact. Good luck either way!
First is the obvious difference of roll flim vs. sheet. This means a difference in the volume of frames you shoot, loading film holders individually, price. Also, are you developing yourself or having a lab do it? If it's yourself, you'll have to either do it in a tank, tray process, or some other varient. It's a whole different deal than 35mm with different equipment, although the concept is the same. Sending to a lab the costs will be different as well. Also think about how you'll be printing/scanning.
The second is the working style. If you're planning to strap either one on a tripod then this isn't such a big deal. However, generally 4x5's are tripod-bound (with some exceptions already mentioned.) 6x7 can be handheld, even though they are a bit heavy besides the Mamiya 7.
Just a couple things to think about! Despite some of the trade-off's of 4x5, the image quality is outstanding. Some view the slower workflow as an asset in fact. Good luck either way!
FrankS
Registered User
The great thing about 4x5 is that you can use a roll film back if you want to.
LF photography is futzy to begin with, night time LF photography is a bit more so.
LF photography is futzy to begin with, night time LF photography is a bit more so.
nikon_sam
Shooter of Film...
Wayne,
I'm looking at the Ektar, Xenon, Planar and a few others in the 120 to 150mm range to use in a Zone VI 4x5 View Camera...
I will be shooting in a 6x7 format not 4x5 so the Image Circle on any of these lenses should not be a big factor...
What I'm looking for is "The Look"...a lens with character, I love the look I get with my Yashica Mat 124...
I have in my bag a 75mm, 90mm, 150mm and 210mm all Caltar lenses bought new sometime around 1994...so I would call then fairly new with multi-coated glass...
When the rain stops out here I plan on shooting some Neopan 400 and develop it in Rodinal to see what that looks like (with the lenses I have)...I have shot some Tmax but it didn't do it for me...look wise...
I'm doing my homework so any input will be appreciated...
FrankS
Registered User
I'm not sure where I got the idea that your project was of an ocean at night with long exposures. Just projecting, I guess.
FrankS
Registered User
Wayne,
I'm looking at the Ektar, Xenon, Planar and a few others in the 120 to 150mm range to use in a Zone VI 4x5 View Camera...
I will be shooting in a 6x7 format not 4x5 so the Image Circle on any of these lenses should not be a big factor...
What I'm looking for is "The Look"...a lens with character, I love the look I get with my Yashica Mat 124......
I'd go with the Xenon for "the look".
nightfly
Well-known
Great suggestions everyone, thanks.
I will be developing everything myself as I do with 35mm and 120. Although the look of 4 x 5 appeals to me I might end up going with 6 x 7 for convenience.
Any thoughts on some sort of 6 x 7 folder?
I will be developing everything myself as I do with 35mm and 120. Although the look of 4 x 5 appeals to me I might end up going with 6 x 7 for convenience.
Any thoughts on some sort of 6 x 7 folder?
FrankS
Registered User
Older 120 folders with red windows are 6x4.5, 6x6, or 6x9. All normal-ish lenses.
I can only think of the Plaubel Makina in a 6x7 folder. Normal lens and wide angle lens versions. ($1200-1800)
The new Fuji/Bessa folder expected in the Spring will be 6x7. ($ ???)
Fuji makes non-folding 6x7 and 6x9 cameras with great lenses, a normal 90mm/f3.5 lens or a wide angle lens with a max. aperture of 5.6. ($600-1200)
I can only think of the Plaubel Makina in a 6x7 folder. Normal lens and wide angle lens versions. ($1200-1800)
The new Fuji/Bessa folder expected in the Spring will be 6x7. ($ ???)
Fuji makes non-folding 6x7 and 6x9 cameras with great lenses, a normal 90mm/f3.5 lens or a wide angle lens with a max. aperture of 5.6. ($600-1200)
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