50mm Collapsible Summicron LTM - How to evaluate? Pix Good, Bad, Ugly?

[Souljer]

Hi,

A follow up to my Leica IIIg + Summicron thread <-Link).
I'd like to discuss here Summicrons in general and this collapsible Summicron in particular. I'd like any opinions on how these images look, perhaps compared to a Summicron you own or have experience with. I'm considering buying this lens as I can use it on my M6 with an adapter (which is what I just did) regardless and if I ever get a LTM camera I can use it there too.
I'm hoping to learn about what to look for when examining and assessing a lens, both now and in the future. Anything you guys look for in particular?

I found this collapsible Summicron thread-mount and used my 90 adapter from my 85mm. The lens itself is a bit sticky at both the focus and aperture rings. They move but there is a little resistance at first. Shining a flashlight through it, I have to say, it looked pretty clean. Much better than a hazy M-mount version also available. Also the front element did not have the usual wipe marks I've seen on others.
These pictures were all taken with a roll of basic FujiColor 200 24exp. I picked these out the the 26 frames taken. All I did here was Save-for-Web to make the files smaller. No cropping or filters or color corrections. Straight from the CD.

How would you evaluate this lens based on these pictures? Or am I wasting my time and you can't tell anything about the lens? 🙄
Thank you very much in advance for your time and experience.


Focused on "Public Parking $8.00" sign. Was looking to see how the fine print came out.



Not sure what happened here. Flare from the ground and maybe a door or the wall bouncing light into the lens?
How might you explain this and is it common for this lens?



Slowed down to about 1/60 and stopped down about f/5.6.



Sped up here, maybe 1/250th and opened up to f/2. Focus point is the same in both; the orange flower in front.
By the way, these two were both at minimum focusing distance. I simply swung the tab around until it stopped and then adjusted my position until the orange peddles were in focus.



Something about these colors is interesting or weird. Is it the intense direct sunlight, the way this lens renders, or something else?



Was focusing on the farthest tree which was at infinity.



I put the camera on the floor and guessed the composition. This is pretty much what I was going for, so that worked.



Was not looking through the viewfinder again, but this time I missed the shot.
I did end up shooting a nice grid for the test, by accident. 🙂

Again I really appreciate your help and experience.
Please post pictures from your own collapsible Summicron if you think it will help illustrate a point or what to look for.
Thanks.

 

[Classique]

Looks great! I had collapsible summicron and summicron DR at the same time and found the collapsible to be more flare prone and lower in contrast. I think I see a bit of flare in your second picture but not too much (looks to me, the outside was a lot brighter so it is overexposed). If you use a hood, I think it may help more. Otherwise, I think you have a winner here.

 

[Dez]

In the late 50's when this lens was introduced, it was considered the best "50" there was to be had. Apart for having rather soft front coating which is prone to scratches, it was mechanically superb. Designs improve with time however, and it probably is no surprise that a new Leitz lens costing eight times as much has the potential to deliver better results.

I have always been a bit amused by those who brag incessantly about the ultimate optical capabilities of their favourite lens. The nature of RF photography, as often seen here in RFF, often involves putting a lens capable of a resolution of 100 lines per millimeter and then using it for handheld available darkness shots at 1/8 of a second. I tend to rank real-world stuff such as ease of use, freedom from flare, and of course the ultimate practical metric, cost, more highly than potential but usually unrealized performance.

All that said, I have a collapsible Summicron on my IIIg, and I love it.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[philipaloft]

- and I find this lens works well on a Nex, should you go in that direction.
The screw thread is an advantage because the focus peaking on the Nex allows for precise focusing and I needed to rub down my LTM to M adapter on a sharpening stone to make it a hair thinner and optimize the sharpness at infinity focus. Was a little laborious, but not difficult.
Philip Barlow

 

[Souljer]

Hi,

Dez: What you write about "unrealized performance" is exactly what I have done many times: Wide open - at 1/8th. I don't even think twice about it at this point. 🙂
My original thread on this subject explains more about what I usually shoot: Bands in dark clubs and general available-light stuff. I'd use my M6 and faster lenses for that, but wanted a smaller more pocket-friendly set-up for just wandering around and enjoying the process. Could be night, could be day.

What's a Nex? Is that a digital? Would the lens still be able to collapse into the body? Is it a small camera?

I was thinking about getting this lens as a harmless step towards a small street-shooter rig. I say harmless because I can always use it on my M6 (as I just did today) even if I don't end up getting a Leica Thread-Mount camera. And I don't have a 50mm lens anyway - which is why I'd like some help in evaluating this lens. And something like this is a good starter 50mm for me as it's WAY cheaper than the Summilux or Noctilux I really covet.

Thanks for posting everyone.

 

[Boris Stupak]

What's the serial number? Is it an early Thorium (radioactive) collapsible Summicron?

In that case, the resale value would be much higher. I've had a number of the Thorium Summicrons and I liked them, I'm now sorry I didn't keep one to shoot on my M9.

PS: If the price is good, buy both of the Summicrons you say you can get, clean the hazy one, and sell one.

 

[Souljer]

Hi,

I don't know.
I didn't even look except to make sure it was a Summicron not a Summitar or some other similar collapsible lens I don't know about.
What would those relevant numbers be?

Now I have to go back and check tomorrow! 😀

 

[estenh]

It's an incredible lens, probably my favorite 50 I've ever used. Judging by your photos, you've got a pretty solid copy 🙂. Most thorium lenses I've seen have a slightly yellow-tinted glass; that's definitely one way to check.

 

[Souljer]

Hi,

Okay. I don't remember it being yellow-tinted.
As I said I was not looking for this. I was looking through the glass as best I could and at the surface for 'cleaning marks'. Don't recall any yellowish tinge.

Might that be a built in contrast filter for B&W? Wouldn't a lens like that affect color photography?

No one seems too worried about the sticky aperture or focus rings?
Is that not a big deal - meaning won't require a pricey repair?

 

[mfogiel]

1) Always use a lens hood.
2) Unless you really need f2.0, do not use it.
3) Unless you are REALLY convinced, you like to shoot colour, skip it for B&W - this lens is great for monochrome, as you may have discovered by looking at photos by HCB.

 

[Rob-F]

This lens has a lovely, painterly quality. Sharp enough and never harsh. It's a keeper!

 

[morback]

You have a nice copy. The second shot shows what it does best, nice sharpness with full tones, and the last one how it behaves wide open.

It's been my only lens (besides testing a v3 black recently) for the past years. I always come back to it. No regrets.

 

[Souljer]

Hi Morback,

At first I was thinking, "What is he talking about??" But I think you are referring to the two flower shots?
Yes, the first was stopped down and the second was wide open. I remember doing that on purpose at minimum focusing range just to see how it would behave.

I've also heard that some of these Summicons go soft at the edges of the frame, but I don't see that here. The shot with the carrots seems sharp corner to corner. Even the last shot of the tile 'grid' seems good with no distortion, etc.

I wonder if I'm missing something or if in fact this is a good, probably not-worn-out, specimen.

Thanks for your comments.

 

[roundg]

this is a good lens. I did some compare test recently on one copy with very clean glass. the following are some center crop. Wild open shows low contrast but F2.8 sees good improvement. Wild open also show the unique signature of old Leica lens in the OOF area.

 

[Souljer]

Hi,

Thanks for the pictures. This is something I did not think to do.
Photograph close-up wide open with the background far in the distance.

When you say, "This is a good lens." Do you mean the collapsible Summicron in general, or the one I demonstrate above?

Funny you write in now.
I was just reading a comment by you about the collapsible Summicron in another thread from 2009!

Thank you very much for your post. I appreciate the help.

 

[mdarnton]

I had one in the 70s, and it was one of my favorite two lenses of all time (along with the 28/1.9 Voigtlander). I've been looking at their prices again recently, thinking about getting one, since I'm back into Leica and film (for the third time in 50 years 🙂

Here are a couple of shots with it from back then:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdarnton/6557232673/in/set-72157604231171234
http://www.flickr.com/photos/mdarnton/6560124375/in/set-72157628767257187
Both shots are at or near wide open. There are full res versions you can access through the "actions" menu.

 

[xia_ke]

The shots look good, right inline with what I would expect from mine, at least as best as can be told by looking at a small, low res scan on the web. My recommendations would be to get a hood and to definitely put a filter on it to avoid cleaning marks. I got the Leica 12585 hood for mine, which does have a little finder blockage, but not bad at all. If you need to get it CLA'd, mine had really sticky focusing and haze starting when I got it. Sent it to Youxin and it is a dream to use now. I think it was like $60 for the lens CLA and worth every penny! Here's a shot from my Thorium version with my IIIg on Ektar.

 

[leicapixie]

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132373

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132373

I own one.The bayonet one.
In Pristine shape. No scratches, no marks.
Perfect. Perfect in 1954. Yup.
Would you like to commute on Freeway with 1954 auto?
The lens easily flares, it really lacks contrast. It's sharp..
My Canon FD lens 50mm f1.8 from late 70's, is way ahead.
If you have a screw mount there are the NEW VC lenses.
On a newer M, why use a limp along, not giving the quality, so easily had in newer lenses.
If i had spare cash, i'd replace it so fast..

 

[Souljer]

Hi,

Thanks guys. Really great and helpful to hear (and see!) various opinions and thoughts and examples.

This lens seems to be in good shape, except for the slightly sticky focus and aperture rings. They still work fine, they just need a little bit of an extra nudge to get them going.
Also this lens does not come with any caps. So I'll have to get caps and of course the adapter ring somewhere, which is more money. It's less than $400. but with the extra expenses it will probably be closer to ???

How much for are a cap and adapter ring going for these days?

 

[NeeZee]

Used to own one of these too. Mine flared much more due to scratches and slight haze - so yours looks ok. I've got a perfectly clean coated summar now and it's a better performer (except wide open) which shows condition is everything with these old lenses. you can't expect crisp sharpness wide open (or even at f2.8) from any of the 1930s-1950s lenses, of course. i think the sweet spot is f4-f5.6. if you like colour try exposing some slide film with this lens - it's a great combination.