6 BIT FOR ZEISS or CV LENSES????

R

RogerDunham

Newbie
Local time
6:56 PM
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
9
Since it apperas that leica solution to the magenta /WB issues will require the firmware to identify the lens, will this make it more difficult to use zeiss or CV alternatives on the M8? Forgetting the cost differences it appears that Zeiss will have 15 and 18 primes and Cv has of course the 12 and 15 . The only leica offering will be the new 16-18-21 tri elmar. Has anybody been thinking about copying the 6bit configuration for the tri elmar for use with zeiss/cv lenses. Other than possible tightness of the lens mounting , it sure looks like a thin tape solution would work for a lot of users? Just fishing for possible in progress solutions.
 
Tape will come off. The information is painted into recesses cut in the mount.

Plus you will need phony information added as the camera will not recognise off brand codes.

Maybe it makes no difference or maybe this is an attempt to reclaim the M mount since the patents expired. Clever marketing if it is.
 
image the money that can be generated by people who have purcahsed M8 and own large selection pre M8 non coded lens...


and it also closes the door to third party makers like Cosina and Zeiss/Cosina, or Konica.


quite mild when you compared leica to Canon's FD-EOS move.
 
There was a lot of talk about coding non-Leica lenses before the latest purple frenzy. Suffice it to say that a magic marker solution to the lens coding problem would be something I would try when I get my M8. I would guess that the correction that Leica applies to their 21mm lens would be similar to that required by the Zeiss 21mm.

Rex
 
if the lens information is used to reduce the IR problem there has to be some info about the lens in the cameras firmware. So this will limit the lens choice to those lenses listed as codeable by Leica.

Coding a lens to mimik a genuine Leica lens to the body won't help.
 
6 bits... That's only 64 possibilities, someone will surely hack "best fit" codes for non-Leica lenses.
 
This is a bit off topic and has nothing to do with 6-bit coding BUT does touch the subject of the ZM 25mm Biogon invoking the more desirable 24mm frame vice the current 28mm frame on the M8. Zeiss is aware of the "problem" and answered my query to them with a "we're studying the situation" e-mail.

If I were handy with metalworking -- NOT! -- I remove the necessary section of the current ZM25's rear mount and have it fool the M8 into thinking it is now a 24mm lens. I'm not going to touch the lens mount until I hear from Zeiss.

I use the ZM 25 a lot: both on film bodies and the M8.

-g
 
Bryce said:
6 bits... That's only 64 possibilities, someone will surely hack "best fit" codes for non-Leica lenses.
Click to expand...

Yes indeed. The LTM fix seems easy: an LTM to M adapter, dremel tool to create the dimples, black & white paint. Done.

ZM and M-Hex coding will require the same procedure as Leitz M lenses: remove the mount, machine the dimples, black & white paint. Bob's your uncle.

Canon FD-EOS??????? "It was 20 years ago today..." GRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!! No reason to do that except unbounded greed! GRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!
 
Bryce said:
6 bits... That's only 64 possibilities, someone will surely hack "best fit" codes for non-Leica lenses.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Like I said before, a 21mm Leica and a 21mm Zeiss, both being a semi-retrofocus design, will need about the same correction. The cyan correction is almost totally dependent on the focal length of the lens so coding non-leica lens could be a big benefit .

Rex
 
Probably some enterprising third party will come out with a photoshop plug-in, "M8fix" and make a few bucks. We don't need no stinkin' codes.
 
the nikon d2/d200/F6 uses menu based input system, to allow users to input manual lens data, i don't see why it is so difficult for leica to do the same, the encoding thing should only be added as a feature/option, not as a requirement. it should be there merely to save user time to the do input procedure for each lens each time.

to require encoding is not consistent with the company's claim for compatibility with lens dating back to 1954, it is more like asking you folks to renew your membership fee for the new digital club.

i bet you will see future firmware updates doing away this thing.

i do hope i can do everything to help the company, but rather relunctant to be taken for a ride like this.
 
I don't see why a solution to any IR-related problem would require the camera to know which lens is mounted. Lenses are about as transmissive to infrared as they are to red light. I think with their statement Leica are just trying to push their 6-bit coding.

And coding any third-party lens with a Leica lens code is not going to provide any benefit at all. If Leica does use detailed optical information about the lens, CV or Zeiss lenses are different enough in their optical details from Leica lenses that there will be no point in doing that. In fact, image quality might deteriorate because the camera expects the lens to act differently from what it actually does. The only advantage you get is bogus lens information in the EXIF data.

Philipp
 
A coding for a CV lens would be perfectly possible. All that's needed is that CV (or Zeiss, or any other M lens manufacturer) writes microcode for their lenses, have it implementted into the M8 firmware, and get a lens molunt coding assigned. Yes, there are a lot of snags here: Leica won't accept the micro code to be inserted in the M8 firmware, there aren't enough mount coding positions, etc. Yet, it is possible. Not like or feasible but possible none the less.
 
RML said:
Yet, it is possible. Not like or feasible but possible none the less.
Click to expand...

In other words, it's possible in the same way that it's possible that the M9 is autofocus ;)

Philipp
 
sounds like a balls up all round to me. Need to spend a fortune upgrading leica lenses imply so you can use them...cannot use competitor lenses effectively. Makes the M8 quite a bit more expensive and a pain in the @ss than the box price alone. I guess this is what happens if you try to go from metal manual mechanical wonders to digital magic on one step. I guess Canon et al dont have this problems as the electronics have for a long time allowed the body to know what lens was attached and the lenses have ben designed to communicate this info for a long time.

I am so glad I shoot mono and find film so appealing. I do hope Leica finds clean fixes as I want to be sure my film bodies are supported for years to come!
 
rvaubel said:
Exactly. Like I said before, a 21mm Leica and a 21mm Zeiss, both being a semi-retrofocus design, will need about the same correction. The cyan correction is almost totally dependent on the focal length of the lens so coding non-leica lens could be a big benefit .

Rex
Click to expand...


IMHO the colour of the coating plays a roll, too.
 
I have to say, Turtle's point about the M8 becoming more expensive than just the $5,000 for the body. Talk about your slippery slopes!!

B2 (;->
 
rxmd said:
In other words, it's possible in the same way that it's possible that the M9 is autofocus ;)

Philipp
Click to expand...

Not quite. :) For quite some time there have been non-Canon issued firmware updates for the Canon 300D, which released some of the disabled functions that were present in the original firmware to begin with. It's entirely possible the Leica firmware also has openings for such alterations, perhaps even allowing for added functionality. If Leica themselves can add functionality (like IR solutions), others can as well.

You know, pigs can fly... with enough thrust. :p
 
Completely off topic..but hey I started this one....what is interesting is that when discussing the Canon 5D and Leica/Zeiss lenses verse the DMR ...one of the biggest advantages of the DMR is quoted as .."great right out of the camera ..no adjustments ..just perfect" . Now with the M8 ..its all about corrections in photoshop?? My purpose in this thread was focused on getting it right in the camera ...everytime. Therefore I hope the Leica solution really uses the 6 bit information to correct the cyan edges . Which brings me back to the zeiss , Cv issues ....I will bet that some one will find a way to code those lenses to a close Leica equivalent. Just a quess but might influence which lenses you purchase.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom