6x6 folders with CRFs?

[Little Prince]

Do either the Bessa 66 (old Voigtlander folder) or the succeeding Perkeo come with a coupled rangefinder? In any version? What about the Super Isolette?

Any other solid, well engineered 6x6 folders of any era (with good lenses) that have CRFs?

The bug is biting me... 😀

 

[Richard Black]

Try this link! This fellow does marvelous stuff with old folders. You'll probably get your answer there. http://www.certo6.com/

 

[Little Prince]

Hey I was just reading that site!

I'm just not sure the information is comprehensive. Since there are many users here, if many have all sorts of old gear, I was just hoping someone will know because they have one! Hearsay is fine too, it'll give me a good starting point.

 

[wlewisiii]

Generally the folders with "Super" in thier name had a coupled rangefinder. Super Ikonta, Super Isolette, & Super Speedex for example. The FUS copies of them as well (Moskva & Iskra). Certo6.com really does present a good overview. Once you've decided to investigate a given model, then you can look for web sites with more indepth information.

The best "bang for buck", if you need a coupled rangefinder, are the FSU ones. I've an Iskra and a Moskva 5 and both are very nice cameras for a much lower cost than Super * will run you for usable cameras. If you can live with an uncoupled rangefinder, there are very good deals out there on Mess-Ikontas and Speedex Special "R"s.

Hope this helps,

William

 

[Heath]

Don't forget the Ensign Commando. This 6x6 or 6x4.5 (it has masks built in for both formats) folder has a coupled rangefinder , but with a small difference. When you focus the lens doesn't move. The film plane does. It is a rather ingenious idea and makes for a cleaner look. The film pressure plate has very strong springs so the film is always kept as flat as possible. It is also a very affordable camera but may be a bit harder to find. I got mine for less than $100 AUD.

Any more questions about this camera feel free to ask.

Heath

 

[wlewisiii]

Which then reminds me of the Mamiya 6 folder. It, too, was a 6x6 with film back focusing. I believe KEH has one in stock right now for a reasonable price.

William

 

[jdos2]

Try this link! This fellow does marvelous stuff with old folders. You'll probably get your answer there. http://www.certo6.com/

Jurgen's a nice guy, but I'm not the only person here that recommends caution when dealing with him- be absolutely SURE you are extremely specific for what you ask, otherwise...

And I mean "EXTREMELY."
As in "No light leaks" "Rangefinder correctly adjusted" and so forth.

 

[doubs43]

You may want to consider the Moskva 2, 4 or 5. Careful shopping can turn up some nice ones. I purchased a Moskva-4 in excellent condition (looks almost new) that I believe left the factory with the rangefinder ever so slightly out of alignment. The owner was probably disappointed in the pictures he/she took and simply laid it aside. I checked RF/focus alignment with groundglass and set it for infinity. Now it's right on and takes very nice pictures. My gallery has a couple of pictures taken with it.

Walker

 

[Little Prince]

Hey jdos2, can you expand a little? I was going to contact him and ask for recommendations (and buy from him if I decide to buy at all). So what do you think I should specify (other than light leaks, RF alignment)? If I do buy, I will be buying one that is completely CLA'd and has a clean lens, shutter, advance and bellows. Thanks.

 

[jdos2]

Umm...

I actually had a several paragraph write up, but... It's probably best to summarize.

I had bought a folder from him- paid more than I should for a cmaera that leaked light, rangefinder wasn't adjusted, and the coating missing from part of the Novar.

It went back to him 4 times in total, and I wasn't ever really satisfied.

Just tell him what you want.
"Working, adjusted, and calibrated rangefinder" (Very easy to knock off in the Ikonta's, by the way- the mirror is on a metal stalk!)
"No light leaks. None. Check it first, please, or new bellows. No big repairs so that the camera doesn't close very easily, please"
"Lens in excellent shape, with the coatings" (If you care)

What I believe happened is that he sold me one that had sat on the shelf for a long time, but looked perfect. Because it did look perfect, he didn't give it the attention it so needed, and I ended up fixing some problems myself before giving up. Otherwise, he's had lots of good recommendations, please accept my experience as a data point, towards the bottom of the graph, not as a something to determine your own actions.

Oh- and get him to promise you RETURN POSTAGE if you aren't satisfied. Sending it back so many times, the several test rolls (all of which were marred by focusing issues or light blotches), and insurance for those trips back to him added 1/2 again to the price of the already over priced camera.

Then again, bad cameras find me.

Ask me sometime about the Mamiya Universal experience with Mr. Universal (Tony) or the local shop selling me an RB with light leaks...

Since the MP, I ain't settlin' for stuff.

If you want a 6x6 or 6x9 folder, I'm selling my Moskva (sold to me by none other than Oleg!)

🙂

JD

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

I will give you another data point on Jorgen only this one will be on the upper end of the graph. I bought a Speedex Special "R" from a thrift shop and immediately sent it to him for a complete overhaul. He e-mailed me that he was going to Germany for a week's vacation very shortly. I told him I was in no hurry and he said he would work on it when he got back from vacation. I got the cameera back the day before he left for vacation. Turn around time 5 days. It is quickly becoming my favorite "pocket camera". 120 film just kills 35mm. I think the red bellows is what makes the pictures so much better. 😉

Wayne

 

[wlewisiii]

I can ditto Wayne's experiance. Same model of camera (heck, just sold it to Wayne. He must like that camera!). Full CLA and bellows. Fast and good work.

William

 

[jan normandale]

I arranged to buy a Voigtlander Perkeo II from Jurgen. Everything was fine. I then purchased a Zeiss Ikonta 531 , the small one. He called back. There was a problem with the bellows. He couldn't send it until he had replaced the bellows. I said I still wanted it and would wait. The camera arrived in due course and it is a gem.

Someone else said 120 vs 35... no contest. I agree, one of my 'pocket cameras' is the 531 because it has a big piece of film. The Voiglander is lighter of the two.

good luck, Jan

 

[wyk_penguin]

Anyone ever tried the Seagull 203?
I have one and it is good, with a nice built in mask for 6X6 and 645. But the lens adjustment is crap (it is front element focussing, but the front element couples with the rangefinder using 3 easily losened screws). Otherwise it develops nice pics, but then grab the Super Zeiss Ikonta if you find a nice one.

 

[Pherdinand]

I have a super ikonta III with the coated Novar 75/3.5... I like it alot. The ones with Tessar go for very much $, but the Novars are sometimes a very good deal. Really, this little triplet lens performs excellent; i like it both wide open and stopped down. I was probably very lucky to get it for 20 euro but still they go much cheaper than 200+ tessars

 

[jdos2]

I bought a Ikonta 6x6 with a Tessar for dirt- $40, in fine working condition from someone who's father died. I bought it sight-unseen as more of a favor, not knowing what I was going to get.

I was pleasantly surprised. Even Stu at MPEX hadn't seen one, and had to consult a book when I traded it in...

Very nice pictures from that camera.