Steve_F
Well-known
Hi all,
I currently own an M6TTL and am contemplating selling some gear for a 7II.
I have an RZ which is great for close-up, studio, landscapes, fixed location work etc.
I'm sure their are people here who have had a Leica M and jumped to the 7II. The idea of a 6x7 RF is very very appealing. The 'limitations' are of no concern; ie: top shutter speed & close focusing.
How many made the jump and still hung on to their Leica M or kept them both side-by-side or even sold the 7II to go back to Leica M?
I have a Nikon FM3A for any 35mm film work. For all the merits of the Leica I am still totally smitten with those larger negs of my RZ but would like something more portable.
Finally, how does 7II parallax error compare with Leica?
Thanks,
Steve.
I currently own an M6TTL and am contemplating selling some gear for a 7II.
I have an RZ which is great for close-up, studio, landscapes, fixed location work etc.
I'm sure their are people here who have had a Leica M and jumped to the 7II. The idea of a 6x7 RF is very very appealing. The 'limitations' are of no concern; ie: top shutter speed & close focusing.
How many made the jump and still hung on to their Leica M or kept them both side-by-side or even sold the 7II to go back to Leica M?
I have a Nikon FM3A for any 35mm film work. For all the merits of the Leica I am still totally smitten with those larger negs of my RZ but would like something more portable.
Finally, how does 7II parallax error compare with Leica?
Thanks,
Steve.
SimonSawSunlight
Simon Fabel
I use Ms and a Mamiya 6 side by side. all good for me =)
Turtle
Veteran
sounds like a 7II is just what you are after.
I shoot two main kits:
Leica Ms + Mamiya 7II
Leica Ms + Eos with 85mm for portraits
I do the former when doing more scenic work and the latter when doing more people focused docu work when I might want close people shots.
The Mamiya 7II does what you would expect. Its a giant Leica in that it is RF and allows common working techniques. Sure, the longer focal length means you need to stop down more for the same DOF, but in principle, what you can do with a Leica and 100 film, you do the same with a 7II and 400 speed, only the latter is slower handling and needs film changes 3.8 times more often (and take longer each time).
If you are after a camera with the biggest neg possible while still allowing smooth, walking opportunism, this is the camera I recommend above all others. The optical performance is abslutely mind blowing and while not built like a Leica, its good enough. The lenses perform more like Zeiss ZMs or pre-asph Leicas in that they need a couple of stops to get the best in the corners but they are still very good wide open and tack sharp on centre from the off. I find the 65mm the most userful for what I do, but I also have all the others apart from the 210 f8. You can shoot the 50mm witht he whole viewfinder in the camera if needed which is handy. All lenses are nicely contrast matched and I find them quite nice in terms of their pictorial qualities. Some have suggested that they are 'wire sharp' but I have not found that to be so really.
Put the camera on a tripod with any of the lenses, pop in a roll of Delta 100 or simliar and shoot at f11 or so.... they just wait to see the detail in the print. On 20x16 you cannot see all the detail with the naked eye.
For me, the 7II in no way replaces the Leica. No way. But the Leica cannot replace a 7II either. I think they compliment each other perfectly as long as one of your goals is epic detail and the other smallest size and fastest handling.
The 7II is also virtually silent.
I shoot two main kits:
Leica Ms + Mamiya 7II
Leica Ms + Eos with 85mm for portraits
I do the former when doing more scenic work and the latter when doing more people focused docu work when I might want close people shots.
The Mamiya 7II does what you would expect. Its a giant Leica in that it is RF and allows common working techniques. Sure, the longer focal length means you need to stop down more for the same DOF, but in principle, what you can do with a Leica and 100 film, you do the same with a 7II and 400 speed, only the latter is slower handling and needs film changes 3.8 times more often (and take longer each time).
If you are after a camera with the biggest neg possible while still allowing smooth, walking opportunism, this is the camera I recommend above all others. The optical performance is abslutely mind blowing and while not built like a Leica, its good enough. The lenses perform more like Zeiss ZMs or pre-asph Leicas in that they need a couple of stops to get the best in the corners but they are still very good wide open and tack sharp on centre from the off. I find the 65mm the most userful for what I do, but I also have all the others apart from the 210 f8. You can shoot the 50mm witht he whole viewfinder in the camera if needed which is handy. All lenses are nicely contrast matched and I find them quite nice in terms of their pictorial qualities. Some have suggested that they are 'wire sharp' but I have not found that to be so really.
Put the camera on a tripod with any of the lenses, pop in a roll of Delta 100 or simliar and shoot at f11 or so.... they just wait to see the detail in the print. On 20x16 you cannot see all the detail with the naked eye.
For me, the 7II in no way replaces the Leica. No way. But the Leica cannot replace a 7II either. I think they compliment each other perfectly as long as one of your goals is epic detail and the other smallest size and fastest handling.
The 7II is also virtually silent.
Popum
Member
I sold my M6ttl .58 and bought the 7ii with the 80mm and 65mm. I loved the form factor of the M6, but found that 35mm negs didn't work well for me. I love the 6x7 negs with their incredible detail and the fact I can actually see what's going when I look at them on the light table. The 35's were just too limited for my use.
The 7ii is more to carry around than the M6 when doing street photography and I find I don't take it when I'm going to NYC to walk around all day. But I've got other smaller digitals that work very well for that use.
BTW, don't overlook Craigs List when you're searching for the 7ii. I got mine with the 80mm for $500.
The 7ii is more to carry around than the M6 when doing street photography and I find I don't take it when I'm going to NYC to walk around all day. But I've got other smaller digitals that work very well for that use.
BTW, don't overlook Craigs List when you're searching for the 7ii. I got mine with the 80mm for $500.
dprees
Member
I use both Leica M, and Mamiya 7. The latter I have used for 12 years, mainly for landscape work. I came to the Leica M system because I wanted a lighter (slightly) and more compact (significantly) kit, now that my back is giving me gip. I also was interested in a possible path to digital capture sometime down the road.
The 6x7 neg does deliver results far in excess of that achievable with 35mm, but a big question is the final print size. Unless you want to print bigger than 12x16, much of the gain will be lost. The smaller DoF inherent to 6x7 vs. 35mm lenes with a similar angle of view is sometimes a hindrance to my style of photography; to others, it is an advantage (I do like front to back sharpness in my images).
Do consider the earlier M7 camera bodies if you decide to go ahead; little difference in functionality, but often quite a bit cheaper 2nd-hand than the M7II.
The 6x7 neg does deliver results far in excess of that achievable with 35mm, but a big question is the final print size. Unless you want to print bigger than 12x16, much of the gain will be lost. The smaller DoF inherent to 6x7 vs. 35mm lenes with a similar angle of view is sometimes a hindrance to my style of photography; to others, it is an advantage (I do like front to back sharpness in my images).
Do consider the earlier M7 camera bodies if you decide to go ahead; little difference in functionality, but often quite a bit cheaper 2nd-hand than the M7II.
pevelg
Well-known
I have a strange history with MF. I started in 35mm and eventually got the Mamiya 7. I used it for about 2 months and after realizing the high cost of film and developing/scanning/printing, decided to sell it and stick with 35mm. However, the few images I had taken with the Mamiya 7 kept on haunting me. I could never achieve that quality with 35mm. I eventually got the Mamiya 7ii and used it for close to a year. However, my favorite use for it was adventure/hiking/camping/vacation/travel photography. I only did this once or twice per year, thus limiting my use of the system. I recently traded my Mamiya 7ii system for a Hasselblad system. It forces me to slow down even more, something that is important in high cost operating costs. And trust me, I do miss the Mamiya 7ii. It is an incredible system, I just found that I am more likely to use the Hassy. I will definitely be feeling the extra weight on my next hiking trip though.
As to 35mm, I feel I'll always need to have a basic kit. I am in the process of looking for a M4 again. MF is too slow for quick shooting and 120 is too expensive for random thoughtless snap shooting.
So, to answer your question, I think you should hold on to both the Leica and the Mamiya 7 system if you get it. They are two different breeds of cameras, both excellent at what they do.
As to 35mm, I feel I'll always need to have a basic kit. I am in the process of looking for a M4 again. MF is too slow for quick shooting and 120 is too expensive for random thoughtless snap shooting.
So, to answer your question, I think you should hold on to both the Leica and the Mamiya 7 system if you get it. They are two different breeds of cameras, both excellent at what they do.
Steve_F
Well-known
Thanks for all the suggestions. This has come about because I've done a bit of 'soul-searching'.
I was very happy with my FM3A doing what I deemed to be 'street' photography. I then handled a Leica and came under it's spell. With a lot of people, not just here, saying about how quiet and discrete they were (along with their spares and servicing long in to the future) I figured that it would improve my street work. I have now concluded that I am just not the sort of person who can get in close. It's just not me.
I have taken my RZ67 out and used it on street, and because I tend to stand back then it doesn't really matter about how 'in-discrete' it is. Of course the quality of the negs allows for a certain degree of selective enlargement without much trade-off of overall image quality when doing so.
I still have the FM3A so a 35mm film body is still OK. Carrying the RZ around with a 110 & 180 requires a Lowe-Pro backpack - AW Phototrekker. I reckon that with a cap on the body and a couple of lenses the 7II would fit it into my Billingham.
I find with my RZ67 I have more 'keepers' as I think that much more about what I shooting.
On my website on the following link are some of my images at a distance which I am apparently comfortable: http://www.stephenfell.net/page3.htm
These are nearly all 50mm or 35mm.
The DoF question is not really a concern as I tend to err more towards opened up as opposed to stopped-down.
Any 'psychiatrists' feel free to contribute.
Steve.
I was very happy with my FM3A doing what I deemed to be 'street' photography. I then handled a Leica and came under it's spell. With a lot of people, not just here, saying about how quiet and discrete they were (along with their spares and servicing long in to the future) I figured that it would improve my street work. I have now concluded that I am just not the sort of person who can get in close. It's just not me.
I have taken my RZ67 out and used it on street, and because I tend to stand back then it doesn't really matter about how 'in-discrete' it is. Of course the quality of the negs allows for a certain degree of selective enlargement without much trade-off of overall image quality when doing so.
I still have the FM3A so a 35mm film body is still OK. Carrying the RZ around with a 110 & 180 requires a Lowe-Pro backpack - AW Phototrekker. I reckon that with a cap on the body and a couple of lenses the 7II would fit it into my Billingham.
I find with my RZ67 I have more 'keepers' as I think that much more about what I shooting.
On my website on the following link are some of my images at a distance which I am apparently comfortable: http://www.stephenfell.net/page3.htm
These are nearly all 50mm or 35mm.
The DoF question is not really a concern as I tend to err more towards opened up as opposed to stopped-down.
Any 'psychiatrists' feel free to contribute.
Steve.
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Debusti Paolo
Well-known
also considern a bronica rf645 kit!!!!!!!!!!!!
atlcruiser
Part Yeti
I have an M6, mamiya 7 and now a RZ67 as well. Most often I use the M6 and the mamiya 7 or the M8 and the RZ67.
Each has their own applications. I find the M6 to be very fast to use with no drawbacks. The mamiya 7 is wonderful but much slower to use, funky meter, much larger and 1/3 the film capaicity. For streetshooting I still stick with the M6...with the mamiya 7 I spend too much time messign with film for quick situations. The beactiful, big 6x7 negative and limited frames slows me down and makes me concentrate more on what I am doing...all good things
Each has their own applications. I find the M6 to be very fast to use with no drawbacks. The mamiya 7 is wonderful but much slower to use, funky meter, much larger and 1/3 the film capaicity. For streetshooting I still stick with the M6...with the mamiya 7 I spend too much time messign with film for quick situations. The beactiful, big 6x7 negative and limited frames slows me down and makes me concentrate more on what I am doing...all good things
Ti29er
Member
I had an M6 (non TTL bing a purist).
The 'blad was for studio stuff.
Now I have a Mamiya 7 (M7?!)
Different cameras for different things.
The M6 was for supplimentry wedding pictures with a 35mm f2 only and now I'm off travelling for a while. Taking a D700 kit with the Mamiya and 2x lenses.
Results so far look good.
The 'Bald kit is going on eBay next week (no one calls them Hassys!) to pay its way.
Tim
The 'blad was for studio stuff.
Now I have a Mamiya 7 (M7?!)
Different cameras for different things.
The M6 was for supplimentry wedding pictures with a 35mm f2 only and now I'm off travelling for a while. Taking a D700 kit with the Mamiya and 2x lenses.
Results so far look good.
The 'Bald kit is going on eBay next week (no one calls them Hassys!) to pay its way.
Tim