a 135/4 Sonnar with fungus

darkkavenger

darkkavenger

Massimiliano Mortillaro
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Hello,

I purchased recently a Carl Zeiss 135mm f/4 lens for my Contax, it is a postwar model and has fungus. Where could I have it fixed without waiting 6 to 9 months on Henry's list ? :)

Carl Zeiss Nr 1602354 Sonnar 1:4 f=135mm (coated, without T)

Thanks!
Max
 
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Max, first you can try disassembling the lens and cleaning fungus yourself.

If the glass is etched, you may need to repolish/recoat the surface affected. IIRC Arax does that, about $36 per surface. No idea if it makes sense financially.
 
Thanks for the info Eugene, I wonder though how hard it will be to disassemble such a lens. It should be similar to a J-11.. I wonder if anyone has ever tried. Would you consider using a special product to wipe off the fungus?
 
varjag said:
If the glass is etched, you may need to repolish/recoat the surface affected. IIRC Arax does that, about $36 per surface. No idea if it makes sense financially.
Click to expand...
My 135/4 Sonnar flares because the rear element has the coating scratched/rubbed off. Do you think I could just send the piece that comes off over to Arax, or would I have to remove the glass from that little piece?

If so, I'm SOL because I don't know how to do that. Unless I'm missing something.

I too got my 135 Sonnar for peanuts (about $40, I think). It also needs a little lube, but otherwise works fine.

What f2eyelevel makes sense. I have a 50mm Xenon (the precursor to the Summarit) which looks like a fungus attack nightmare. I showed some photos to Brian Sweeney, and he deduced it looked like separation. After more research, it turns out the pattern looks like separation; easily confused with a nasty case of fungus.
 
Hi f2eyelevel, I bought it at an auction for 50 bucks only. So if it's wrong, no problems. The seller had advertised that it had fungus and I decided to gamble :)

I'll try to upload some photos tomorrow. The fungus looks like if someone had dropped some brown dust on the lens and is not starting from the edges but rather from the central area of the lens element.
 
Max. I pay my camera tech $40-60 to CLA lenses. He fixes the fungus and just about everything else and the results are superb. *This is a very basic operation* for camera techs and they all know how to do it. You should be able to find one there locally -- no need to go to an international expert for this.

I would not advise you to try this yourself unless you really want a project and don't care that much about losing the lens. Camera and lens repair is harder than it looks. Without training and tools sometimes you get lucky, other times you end up surrounded by a very expensive pile of glass and metal that used to be called a camera lens :)
 
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f2eyelevel said:
First of all, try to capture what you call fungus with a digital camera and show it to us. Why ? Because many late Carl Zeiss lenses for the Contax cameras suffer from edge separation due to a synthetic glue used at the Zeiss Oberkochen plant for the late production batches in replacement of the Canada balsam. So, you may think it's fungus while it's separation actually. What does this problem look like ? A picture will tell it to us. "Zeiss-patented" separation generally looks like large irized stains starting from the glass edges but it may sometimes vary as for its look.

If it proves to be actual fungus, you have several options. If it's some aerobic fungus (generally looking like a black spiderweb starting from the periphery of the glass), it will clean off quite easily with isopropylic alcohol or diluted ammonia peroxyde provided that you can get access to the sick lens element surface. The glass surface will get clean again and remain fungus-free for the rest of your life if you carefully and fully wipe the fungus off and let the lens get well dry before you reassemble.

The other form of fungus (the anaerobic one) is a killer and will have probably etched the glass already. So, trying to salvage the lens is not worth the trouble. You can't fix it. Nobody can unless the glass is cleaned, repolished, and recoated - I would recommend this treatment for a very rare and extremely valuable lens only.

This kind of fungus usually looks like a dense net of filaments spreading all over the glass surface and it may very well start from several places at once - lens center included. I have handled a Canon RF 50/1.8 lens in this condition recently. It was really impressive - the glass facing the aperture blades on the rear group looked like it had been cleaned with sandpaper. The bacterials had randomly etched the glass on almost all its surface.

Since getting a nice and fungus free 135/4 Sonnar in Contax RF mount at auction is very easy, and just because this otherwise extremely sharp and outstanding lens is generally a bargain, here is what I'd do : just have the seller take it back, and move along. Then you can think of getting another one which won't have any problems. Prefer a Zeiss Opton (or even a prewar Jena) Sonnar if you want to be sure you won't have separation problems.

The last option would be to test the lens as it is. You may very well find, that it's sharp and contrasty enough for your needs. If you got it for a few bucks at a flea market, you can live with its quirks until the fungus has grown enough so that the sick lens gets opaque, which will take some decades.

The postwar 135/4 doesn't exactly dismantle the same way the J-11 does. You have to remove the lens mount from the rear in case you want to clean and relube the helical, for example.

Here is a pair of photos taken with a Contax IIa and a postwar Carl Zeiss 135/4 Sonnar - this one thanksfully being in perfect shape. I paid $47 at auction for it two
years ago.

Good luck !
Click to expand...

Fine shots. I've got one of these too and if my IIa ever gets out of the shop I'll give it a try!
 
I tried to clean the lens myself and managed to remove the "fungus" that was on one of the front elements. I now have to disassemble the rear element of the lens and clean it as well. I would like to know what cleaning product I could use to be sure that any trace of fungus/grease/oil is wiped out of the lens surface.

I have no digital camera at hand so it's not easy for me to post a photo of how it looks. I'll try, however, if possible. :)
 
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Update: I had troubles with the rear element (i don't have a spanner to remove it) but nevertheless I managed to wipe out most of it. The lens now looks clean, however as soon as possible I'll disassemble the optical elements to clean them once and for all. I will do a test film tomorrow afternoon. :)
 
Thanks f2eyelevel. I thought it would be harder than it seemed, I will get this alcohol and give a thorough cleaning to the whole lens. I'm very glad this is solved! :)

I've been taking some photos with the lens today on my Contax IIIa, I should get the film done & developed tomorrow evening. I'm also testing an Industar-61 L/D converted for Contax ;)
 
A little update regarding the lens : I took several photos with it, I've had troubles framing correctly, but here are a couple photos, the first one was taken with the dirt inside the lens. The second one was taken once the dirt was cleaned. Same roll of film (fomapan 400) & Contax IIIa.



(it's a feather hanging on her earlobe) ;)



I still have to clean the optical elements completely and the barrel... but already I'm glad of the results! Now if I could find a 85/135 viewfinder ... anyone's got a spare Zeiss 563/03 ? :D
 
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Do look out for the Helios finder, Max. It's still available, priced at a bargain £6 from www.mrcad.com

I can't find it on their website, but phoned to check and it's still in stock.

I found it pretty useless on my R-D1 - parallax error, but I was using it this morning with my Jupiter 9 and it seemed to work well - framing seemed right compared to the rangefinder patch. It's low mag, so the framing is small, but I like the fact it has both 35mm and 90mm framelines. More info on this thread:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16405

I'm taking the Kiev II out this weekend, Max, so I'll probably give you a report back on the Jupiter 3 you found for me. THanks!
 
Max,
The sonnar loves the ladies. Your photo looked pretty good even when the lens was filthy. Your efforts inspired me to clean my ancient 5cm f/2.8 tessar, now it is back in the line-up. I know it's a pain, but when I forget the finder I just frame slightly larger than the range finder patch.
 
@f2eyelevel : thanks for the hint, it's bookmarked! As for the 563/03, I'm bidding on one this weekend at Westlicht Auction in Vienna (it'll be sold in a lot with 2x 440 finders - one for 21mm, one for 25mm), if I don't win this lot I'll go for Rick's way :)

@Paul: I'm looking forward for the results! I generally try to focus as if the RF patch covers the 135mm field. I had one of the helios and i sold it, I wanted something more Zeiss-ish. I had the 35mm 432/5 viewfinder that I sold to someone in Korea when I swtched from 35mm J-12 on my Kiev to the 21/4 Cv on my Contax IIIa. The 432/05 is one of the finest VFs i've owned. It's very elegant also!

@Steamer : glad to hear this! It's the collapsible Tessar I guess ? As I said to Paul, I try focusing as if the RF patch was made for 135mm... :)
 
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