bmattock
Veteran
OK, so I got this Kiev 4m from Denis in trade for a Kodak Aero Ektar lens, and although it took forever to get here and it arrived looking like a soccer ball (football for you hooligans, er, I mean Europeans).
It took me awhile to get the hang of the Contax Claw hold. Crazy.
Camera is fun to use, very quiet. It came with the nice Helios 103, a 53mm f1.8. Denis was kind enough to include a press-on lens hood and a yellow filter. I took a roll of that cheap $1 Walgreens color film (Agfa) and headed east on Highway 42.
The camera is well-made, better than the Zorki 4K I bought, which fell into small pieces within a month of buying it. I mean, stuff just fell off it. The Kiev seems better made than that. Smells, though. Whew!
The bad news is, we have a little shutter taper (or 'capping' as I believe we call it when it happens to a garage-door shutter). Seems to be intermittant, but will have to be attended to, as I can't trust it as it stands now. On some frames, I can crop around it - on others, not so much. When I shoot in landscape format, the burn is on the top of the frame and towards the right more than the left.
Lens is very sharp, even opened up. I was unable to try it out wide-open, but I did manage the fire hydrant you see below at f4 and 1/500. Not bad! Rich vibrant colors.
The lens also works well stopped down, but frankly, I shot a few comparison shots with my Canon 50mm f1.4 SSC FD-mount using the same film, and stopped down from f16 to f22, the Canon is loads sharper. I think this Helios has a sweet spot from about f4 to f8, maybe f11. In other words, it comes in and goes out a little more open than I'm used to. This is fine for a rangefinder, though - better for available light photography.
I also should have asked how you rewind the bloody film before I headed out today, but not to worry, I figured it out without ruining the film!
Here's the photos, my thanks to Denis for a fine camera that I'm sure I'll enjoy!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
It took me awhile to get the hang of the Contax Claw hold. Crazy.
Camera is fun to use, very quiet. It came with the nice Helios 103, a 53mm f1.8. Denis was kind enough to include a press-on lens hood and a yellow filter. I took a roll of that cheap $1 Walgreens color film (Agfa) and headed east on Highway 42.
The camera is well-made, better than the Zorki 4K I bought, which fell into small pieces within a month of buying it. I mean, stuff just fell off it. The Kiev seems better made than that. Smells, though. Whew!
The bad news is, we have a little shutter taper (or 'capping' as I believe we call it when it happens to a garage-door shutter). Seems to be intermittant, but will have to be attended to, as I can't trust it as it stands now. On some frames, I can crop around it - on others, not so much. When I shoot in landscape format, the burn is on the top of the frame and towards the right more than the left.
Lens is very sharp, even opened up. I was unable to try it out wide-open, but I did manage the fire hydrant you see below at f4 and 1/500. Not bad! Rich vibrant colors.
The lens also works well stopped down, but frankly, I shot a few comparison shots with my Canon 50mm f1.4 SSC FD-mount using the same film, and stopped down from f16 to f22, the Canon is loads sharper. I think this Helios has a sweet spot from about f4 to f8, maybe f11. In other words, it comes in and goes out a little more open than I'm used to. This is fine for a rangefinder, though - better for available light photography.
I also should have asked how you rewind the bloody film before I headed out today, but not to worry, I figured it out without ruining the film!
Here's the photos, my thanks to Denis for a fine camera that I'm sure I'll enjoy!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
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jon_flanders
Well-known
Shutter capping. It seems to be a problem with both my Fed 2 and my Zorki 4. And it does seem to be somewhat internittent, or perhaps it just shows up more with a continuous strip of sky at the top of the frame.
See the Zorki 4 shot attached.
Not a problem with my Iskra 2, though,.......... it has a leaf shutter that seems just fine.
See the Zorki 4 shot attached.
Not a problem with my Iskra 2, though,.......... it has a leaf shutter that seems just fine.
einolu
Well-known
I had one a while ago (that broke) that had a light leak where the back connected with the body (on the back, under the viewfinder). Replacing the lightseals does wonders.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
nice pictures, nice camera, I am enjoying the use of the Kiev 4 am, the one I got off Taffer. the H-103 is a good lens by FSU standards. I thought the Kiev shutter would not cap at the higher speeds, as the two blinds act like one curtain with a moving slit .
back alley
IMAGES
i had a 4? for a limited time (the one w/o the meter) and enjoyed it. great feel to it.
nice pics though bill, good saturation, probably a great carry 'round cam.
joe
nice pics though bill, good saturation, probably a great carry 'round cam.
joe
ed1k
Well-known
Without meter is Kiev 4A (M means modernised, i.e later model, for instance Kiev 4AM). I bouhgt Kiev 4M recently, it works great. Shooter... yeah, I have similar problem on my Zenit at 1/125 I think 
This is what you have to check buying FSU camera. Lenses... do you really expect the cheap Helios to beat your Canon?
Eduard.
This is what you have to check buying FSU camera. Lenses... do you really expect the cheap Helios to beat your Canon?Eduard.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
so you kinda like it, bill. Congrats. You DO know what's the next step, right...
[hint - begins with con and ends with tax]
by the w3ay, if you find the kiev silent, the contax post-war [iia,iiia] is even better and the 'contax claw' is easier a bit.
As xayraa wrote above, i don't understand the problem w capping... You mean the second curtain closes faster or the first travels slower than it should/
that's very weird since the two curtains should travel together until the first one is blocked at the bottom of the frame, and then the second just slides further on the shutter ribbons until it caps with the first, at the bottom.
What could happen is, that the shutter ribbons are a bit worn out and the second curtain cannot slide properly on them [it was the case with mine, on one side, until the ribbon finally completely broke] - but that would mean that the BOTTOM of the frame is OVERexposed; since the lens makes all upside down, it means that the top of the shots like sky etc should look overexposed.
Anyway, on the 3 shots you posted the problem seems not to be too serious.
[hint - begins with con and ends with tax]
by the w3ay, if you find the kiev silent, the contax post-war [iia,iiia] is even better and the 'contax claw' is easier a bit.
As xayraa wrote above, i don't understand the problem w capping... You mean the second curtain closes faster or the first travels slower than it should/
that's very weird since the two curtains should travel together until the first one is blocked at the bottom of the frame, and then the second just slides further on the shutter ribbons until it caps with the first, at the bottom.
What could happen is, that the shutter ribbons are a bit worn out and the second curtain cannot slide properly on them [it was the case with mine, on one side, until the ribbon finally completely broke] - but that would mean that the BOTTOM of the frame is OVERexposed; since the lens makes all upside down, it means that the top of the shots like sky etc should look overexposed.
Anyway, on the 3 shots you posted the problem seems not to be too serious.
bmattock
Veteran
ed1k said:
Not at all, but the purpose of comparison is to compare. I know how the Canon performs, and I needed a yardstick to hold the Helios up to. People say "Oh, the Helios 103 is great," and I reply "Compared to what?" No disrespect of the Helios intended, but I wanted to know how it performed.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
bmattock
Veteran
Pherdinand said:
OK, gotcha. Yes, the top of the photo is underexposed, which would mean that the bottom of the actual frame is what is getting not enough light. As to 'too serious', I didn't post the bad ones. I'd have had to crop 1/2 of the frame to use them. I'm enclosing an example.
And since the capping appears to come and go, I can't trust it with important shots. I need to find someone in the USA who can CLA these Kievs. I don't want to send it back overseas, if I can avoid it.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
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Michael I.
Well-known
Oleg Khalyavin CLA's and sells kievs so I'd talk to him about the shutter problem.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
uhm this example is pretty serious indeed, Bill. And it DOES look like the shutter closes too fast.
But the transition is abrupt, it looks more like the bottom curtain cannot travel all the way down, something is blocking it. If the reason would be the slow travel of it, the change in exposure from normal to none should be gradual, at least that's what my logic dictates.
Try to fire a few times when there's no film in it, lens and back removed, and see if the bottom curtain goes always fully open that is under the film gate.
Or just contact oleg - the simplest way.
But the transition is abrupt, it looks more like the bottom curtain cannot travel all the way down, something is blocking it. If the reason would be the slow travel of it, the change in exposure from normal to none should be gradual, at least that's what my logic dictates.
Try to fire a few times when there's no film in it, lens and back removed, and see if the bottom curtain goes always fully open that is under the film gate.
Or just contact oleg - the simplest way.
bmattock
Veteran
Michael I. said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Oleg is in Russia, isn't he? I'd prefer to have it CLA'd in the US.
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
denishr
アナログ侘・&#
Some nice shots there, Bill.
Sorry to hear about the capping problem - I haven't noticed it before. On the test roll I shot on all speeds before shipping it out, everything seemed to be OK - it was B&W film, though, not color.
I'd say it's definitely shutter capping, not a light leak - since a light leak would appear more irregular - this is a black band of definitely underexposed (or unexposed) film - definitely shutter problem.
Sheesh, from the looks of the package when you got it, it's a wonder it works at all
If you decide to have it repaired, let me know how much it cost, and I'll gladly pay the bill.
You were supposed to get a working camera...
Sorry to hear about the capping problem - I haven't noticed it before. On the test roll I shot on all speeds before shipping it out, everything seemed to be OK - it was B&W film, though, not color.
I'd say it's definitely shutter capping, not a light leak - since a light leak would appear more irregular - this is a black band of definitely underexposed (or unexposed) film - definitely shutter problem.
Sheesh, from the looks of the package when you got it, it's a wonder it works at all
If you decide to have it repaired, let me know how much it cost, and I'll gladly pay the bill.
You were supposed to get a working camera...
bmattock
Veteran
denishr said:If you decide to have it repaired, let me know how much it cost, and I'll gladly pay the bill.
You were supposed to get a working camera...
Denis,
Thank you, but there is no need for that! One cannot ship a mechanical camera across continents and oceans, have it arrive as it did, and expect miracles. You did nothing wrong, and I would never think of asking you to pay the repair bill! We're good, no fear!
When I get to Croatia, I'll ask you to stand me a beer!
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
it looks the 2nd blind is sliding on the two ribbons way too much and the slit is varying in size(gap is getting smaller) during the frame sweep and actually closing before the frame is fully exposed. new ribbons and the proper spring tension on the curtain drums will fix this proplem. Oleg has the parts and expertise to work on these cameras, and they are worth fixing IMHO. Funny thing is that the later Contax IIa & IIIa will show capping or tapering as much as a Leica type shutter, as Zeiss went with two independent running blinds on the post war Contax.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
by the way rick oleson has a good description with drawings of the kiev/prewar contax shutters; if you are interested in such things, it makes easier understanding hwat happens in there.
Mike Kovacs
Contax Connaisseur
Bill it must be something other than fade. Fade is not possible on the prewar Contax shutter because the two curtains are physically connected together by silk ribbons, and hence must run at exactly the same speed.
I wonder whether something is impeding the first curtain enough that the second's momentum is causing it to collide and cap early?
I doubt you will find an economical repair source in North America. This is a big job, no different on a prewar Contax. I've put in 12 hours into this kind of work before to do it right.
I wonder whether something is impeding the first curtain enough that the second's momentum is causing it to collide and cap early?
I doubt you will find an economical repair source in North America. This is a big job, no different on a prewar Contax. I've put in 12 hours into this kind of work before to do it right.
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captainslack
Five Goats Hunter
Bill, check out this thread about a guy in the US who does CLA's an Russian cameras:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11487&highlight=cla+usa
No one here has used his service that I know of, but it might be worth the risk if you're feeling lucky!
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11487&highlight=cla+usa
No one here has used his service that I know of, but it might be worth the risk if you're feeling lucky!
biomed
Veteran
A Day Spent with Kiev 4m
I have had a Kiev 4 for about 6 months and still haven't run any film through it. It appears that the light meter is working and reasonbly accurate. Does the capping problem appear in different areas on the negative? I have a Zorki-4 (1962) that has been working well except for the 1/30 shutter speed. Every once in a while there is a semicircular over exposed area on the right hand side of the frame. this happens for three or four frames then disappears for quite some time. The flat side of the semicircle is against the right edge of the frame. I will have to upload and example. One more question for the Kiev 4 users: there are four bumps on the back of the camera under the covering. Are these the heads of the fasteners for the pressure plate?
Sorry for being a bit OT on the ZORKI-4 question.
Mike
I have had a Kiev 4 for about 6 months and still haven't run any film through it. It appears that the light meter is working and reasonbly accurate. Does the capping problem appear in different areas on the negative? I have a Zorki-4 (1962) that has been working well except for the 1/30 shutter speed. Every once in a while there is a semicircular over exposed area on the right hand side of the frame. this happens for three or four frames then disappears for quite some time. The flat side of the semicircle is against the right edge of the frame. I will have to upload and example. One more question for the Kiev 4 users: there are four bumps on the back of the camera under the covering. Are these the heads of the fasteners for the pressure plate?
Sorry for being a bit OT on the ZORKI-4 question.
Mike
FrankS
Registered User
Mike, those bumps are called Zeiss bumps. They are caused by the corrosion of the metal used in the rivet fasteners. It is very common and easily remedied with the removal of the leatherette, removal of the corrosion, and sealing of the area with say, nail polish laquer.