A flatter alternative to Tri-X for scanning

[Blooze]

I like the look of Tri-X (Arista Premium), but I absolutely hate the curling of the film after drying. I've tried to flatten it under a HEAVY load of books for weeks on end to no avail, it just pops right back to where it started within several minutes. The closest I've come to getting it remotely flat was to rewind it back on the spool with the curved edges out after drying for several days and that helped the most, but still not great. Now I'm not expecting miracles with my V500 scanner, but having them flatter sure can't hurt.

At this point I'm ready to try something else. Any suggestions?

HP5+ maybe.

 

[Peter_S]

HP5+ dries flat, so does Delta 400 (and pretty much every other Ilford film I have tried). Even flatter: Kentmere 400.
Neopan 400 is OK too. For the latter I do the following: 1.5 hrs into drying wind the film carefully back onto a reel, against the curling direction, and leave it there for the remaining drying time.

"Look-wise" a lot depends on developers. I never got excited about HP5+ at ISO400. I shoot it at 800, and develop in DD-X or HC-110. Neopan is my favourite at 400, but different from Tri-X. I suppose you will need to try and see what you like. You may like FP4+ (dries flat!) a lot if you like Tri-X, but of course at ISO125.

 

[yossarian123]

I use AP 400 quite a bit, I don't really notice an extreme amount of curling. How are you drying your film? I'll usually use two weighted film clips on the bottom and let them dry overnight, then stick them in my Friedlander book for a few hours to squash them.

If you're worried about film flatness and you're using the V500 then you should go to betterscanning.com and pick up a glass negative carrier. I use one for 120 on a Canoscan 9000f and there's a noticeable difference once it's calibrated properly.

 

[Photo_Smith]

Have you thought it might be drying too fast? In too low humidity? If not try a film with a different base i.e PET rather than CTA.

 

[Andrea Taurisano]

Now I'm going to admit something embarrassing: I've developed hundreds of rolls of Tri-X, TMax and earlier HP5+ and FP4+, but I had never thought the film type itself was responsible for the annoying curling of the film after drying. One never stops learning, indeed.

BTW, I do manage to flatten my Tri-X almost completely by leaving it under a few heavy books for like 12 hours, but just as soon as the film is dry enough to be touched, not after several days. I get it flat enough to scan decently.

 

[Blooze]

I use AP 400 quite a bit, I don't really notice an extreme amount of curling. How are you drying your film? I'll usually use two weighted film clips on the bottom and let them dry overnight, then stick them in my Friedlander book for a few hours to squash them.

If you're worried about film flatness and you're using the V500 then you should go to betterscanning.com and pick up a glass negative carrier. I use one for 120 on a Canoscan 9000f and there's a noticeable difference once it's calibrated properly.

I weight my film like that as well and let it dry for 3-4 hours. I've tried overnight with no difference in results. I've squashed mine under 6 inches of coffee table books to no avail.

I've looked at the ANR glass from betterscanning for 35mm, but there is no way it would flatten this film. I can sit a magazine on top of it and it doesn't even budge.

I plan on picking up the carrier for 120 film, although the stock cheapo plastic ones from Epson do a decent job, they're just fiddly. The 35mm ones stink. The Tri-X curl is so strong that often I can't get the 35 carrier to clip shut.

Have you thought it might be drying too fast? In too low humidity? If not try a film with a different base i.e PET rather than CTA.

I try to steam up the bathroom really good before hanging to dry. We live in a pretty low humidity area (typically below 30%) so I've done about all I can do there I think.

 

[Blooze]

HP5+ dries flat, so does Delta 400 (and pretty much every other Ilford film I have tried). Even flatter: Kentmere 400.
Neopan 400 is OK too. For the latter I do the following: 1.5 hrs into drying wind the film carefully back onto a reel, against the curling direction, and leave it there for the remaining drying time.

"Look-wise" a lot depends on developers. I never got excited about HP5+ at ISO400. I shoot it at 800, and develop in DD-X or HC-110. Neopan is my favourite at 400, but different from Tri-X. I suppose you will need to try and see what you like. You may like FP4+ (dries flat!) a lot if you like Tri-X, but of course at ISO125.

Right now I've just got ID-11 and Rodinal for developers. I'd like to have something that works well at 400 and push up to 800 at least. I tend to shoot in a lot of different kinds of light and 125 doesn't always cut it for my shaky old hands when the light is dim.

 

[fonzy]

I live in calgary where it's really dry, and I have the exact same problem with tri-x. What I do is cut and sleeve the negs into printfile pages, and then roll the whole page emulsion side out into a tube. I use a couple pieces of masking tape to keep it rolled up (I used to use elastics but that sometimes wrinkled the negs). Leave it that way for a couple days and they should be plenty flat to scan (I use a v600, so basically the same thing).

 

[Gregoyle]

I always get a longitudinal curl with Arista Premium. The Arista.edu Ultra dries much flatter, but of course doesn't push as nicely. I've never actually shot real Tri-X 🙂

The film holder matters a lot. The curl isn't an issue at all with my Minolta Scan-Dual III, because the holder has good cross pieces. I hear that the BetterScanning holders for flatbeds are good, too.

 

[mfogiel]

The solution for this, is to put the film strips into a glassine sheets (avoid the plastic, transparent ones), put it between two layers of hard cardboard ( like photo mounting board), place it on top of a flat electric barbecue plate,press with a flat tile and turn the plate on the lowest heat. After a couple of hours, you turn the heat off, and you keep the film there till the next day, till it cools down. Then it will be perfectly flat, but it might curl up a bit again after sone time if : a) - warmed up, or b: the climate is hot, and there is a lot of humidity. Therefore, the best thing is, to scan the film soon after you take it out of this sandwich.

 

[Rangefinderfreak]

get yourself a good wetting agent... I use rollei RWA, and don`t wipe it with anything. let the emulsion side suck in the wetting agent and when dry, the film will be perfectly flat. Even TRI-X... Don`t use heat, let it dry overnight.

 

[charjohncarter]

I have Betterscans 35mm anti-newton-ring glass, and it flattens all 35 mm negatives. But you have to scan with emulsion side down (not up) to make it work. The problem is another step in post process of flipping right to left. But my scans are great edge to edge.

 

[Blooze]

get yourself a good wetting agent... I use rollei RWA, and don`t wipe it with anything. let the emulsion side suck in the wetting agent and when dry, the film will be perfectly flat. Even TRI-X... Don`t use heat, let it dry overnight.

I've been using LFS and RO water from our undersink filter. I let it soak in the LFS mix for 2-3 minutes while still on the reel, then shake off the excess and remove from the reel to hang and dry.

 

[Blooze]

I have Betterscans 35mm anti-newton-ring glass, and it flattens all 35 mm negatives. But you have to scan with emulsion side down (not up) to make it work. The problem is another step in post process of flipping right to left. But my scans are great edge to edge.

Do you use it with holders or right on the scanner glass. I currently put the emulsion side down in the holders otherwise the negative will lay on the scanner glass down the middle. A 1/4" thick piece of glass might flatten it, but I can lay the 1/16" glass that comes out of a normal 4x6 frame and it just sits on top without even flexing it. This stuff is stiff! It's stiff enough that when I was rolling it backwards onto a spool to try and flatten it I was afraid it was going to crease.

As a side note I only have about 4-5 rolls of it left, so the ideas to help flatten it are most welcomed, but I think I'm going to move on to another type of film and see if I get on better.

 

[Vics]

I too shoot Tri-X and scan with V-500. I'm going to try the BetterScanning holders, also.
http://www.betterscanning.com/scanning/models/v500.html

 

[zauhar]

I follow the advice of another RFFer (sorry, forgot who) and wrap the archive sheet around a paper towel tube, secure with rubber bands, and leave for 12 hrs or so. Works well.

Randy

 

[Pablito]

use of wetting agent as describe above, but also run a humidifier to slow drying time.

 

[Frontman]

To flatten Tri-X without pressing it or scratching it, simply roll the film tightly emulsion-side out after drying. I let it sit for a day or two like this, and it stays flat.

Rollei films dry perfectly flat, with no fuss.

 

[DNG]

get yourself a good wetting agent... I use rollei RWA, and don`t wipe it with anything. let the emulsion side suck in the wetting agent and when dry, the film will be perfectly flat. Even TRI-X... Don`t use heat, let it dry overnight.

Correct !!!!

This has never failed me!!

I use Photo Flo 200 (USA dilution)
But, I put 4-6 drops from an eye dropper in 11oz of filtered water, and hang dry in a bathroom that I steamed up for 10 min, and turned off a few minutes before I dry.
(DUMP THE WETTING AGENT)... ONE TIME USE

DO NOT SQUEEGEE after you hang in up.. Close the door to keep the bathroom as steamy as possible while it dries.
Turn off any AC/Heat...OR, CLOSE the Air-Vent, you don't want air exchanges in the bathroom while it dries

in about 3 hours it will be dry...

If you must have it faster... after an hour, you can use a Hair Drier.... but, stay over 12" away, and hold the film straight with the other hand on the clip. Dry each side for a Minute or so, moving from top to bottom, Then, dry the other side as the 1st... keep repeating from base to emulsion sides until it is dry to the touch on the leader areas...about 10-15min...

Do you also pre-soak the film in running filtered water for around 3-5min before you develop it?

 

[charjohncarter]

Do you use it with holders or right on the scanner glass. I currently put the emulsion side down in the holders otherwise the negative will lay on the scanner glass down the middle. A 1/4" thick piece of glass might flatten it, but I can lay the 1/16" glass that comes out of a normal 4x6 frame and it just sits on top without even flexing it. This stuff is stiff! It's stiff enough that when I was rolling it backwards onto a spool to try and flatten it I was afraid it was going to crease.

As a side note I only have about 4-5 rolls of it left, so the ideas to help flatten it are most welcomed, but I think I'm going to move on to another type of film and see if I get on better.

Betterscan recommended using the stock V500 holder with the ANG on top. When I have used negative on the glass no matter which way I put the emulsion I would get Newton Rings. This is one such negative 35mm scan (the rings are on the left on the barbers drape of the customer):