tanel
Established
So, I'm in a need of a 35mm lens for an M mount camera and thought what would you do in my choes.
A new Zeiss Biogon 35mm f2 or in a good condition Summicron 35mm f2 "bokeh king" with hood and a uv filter?
What's your experiences with those two- How is the build quallity and does the fact that biogon comes as new makes any real difference?
I'm terribly sorry if I missed something and similar threads are all over here, somewhere (they probably are).
A new Zeiss Biogon 35mm f2 or in a good condition Summicron 35mm f2 "bokeh king" with hood and a uv filter?
What's your experiences with those two- How is the build quallity and does the fact that biogon comes as new makes any real difference?
I'm terribly sorry if I missed something and similar threads are all over here, somewhere (they probably are).
f16sunshine
Moderator
Yes, there are many threads about this subject. I opened your on the chance you had something new to add. Search the Leica M forum and Zeiss Ikon ZM Forum over on the left column of the index page. You will find plenty on both lenses as well as other 35's.
See, I was no fan of the build quality of the 35 Summicron IV and less of the ergonomics. This lens is not built like other Leica lenses, the front and back modules are glued together and a frequent issue with them is that the glue seal breaks, making the two halves rotate away from each other. It is also stubby and was too short for my fingers, especially the squeeze of the focus tab and hood trying to get to the aperture ring. It just didn't work for me, but the image quality is excellent.
I have not used the 35/2 Biogon.
I have not used the 35/2 Biogon.
swoop
Well-known
I own the 35 cron IV and it is one of my favourite lenses. Amazingly sharp. But even still I'm considering the 35 Biogon just because I like the character of Zeiss lenses.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Yes, there are LOTS of threads dealing with this question.
Bottom line is that there are a LOT of good 35's in M-Mount.
Summarit 2.8 and 3.5 -- classics, especially the 2.8
Summitar 2.5 -- similar to the Biogon-C. Fabulous.
Noktons 35/1.2 and 1.4, 40/1.4
Color-Scopar 2.5
Rokkor 40/2
v. 3 Summicron (a better value than the v.4)
Biogon 2.0
Biogon-C2.8
etc. etc. Depending on your needs, any of these could do the job rather nicely.
Bottom line is that there are a LOT of good 35's in M-Mount.
Summarit 2.8 and 3.5 -- classics, especially the 2.8
Summitar 2.5 -- similar to the Biogon-C. Fabulous.
Noktons 35/1.2 and 1.4, 40/1.4
Color-Scopar 2.5
Rokkor 40/2
v. 3 Summicron (a better value than the v.4)
Biogon 2.0
Biogon-C2.8
etc. etc. Depending on your needs, any of these could do the job rather nicely.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
The ultimate 35mm f2.0 is the Summicron IV. Whether or not this is true you will need to make that decision. There are many great (and I do not use that word loosely) lenses in this catagory. Purchasing one of these lenses is serendipity for price.
tbarker13
shooter of stuff
I'd get the v. 3 of the summicron if I were going that route. I've used both and see little reason to spend several hundred more dollars on the much-hyped v. 4.
As has been mentioned, the construction quality on the v. 4 isn't among Leica's best.
But really, there are so many nice 35s out there you really have to work to find a bad one.
As has been mentioned, the construction quality on the v. 4 isn't among Leica's best.
But really, there are so many nice 35s out there you really have to work to find a bad one.
Neare
Well-known
Both lenses render differently. I'd pick the one that would produce the look I would what in my photos - that takes precedent over build quality imho. Up to you.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
That's just crazy-talk.
I used to have the Summilux ASPH. I now use the Biogon-C.
Vs. the v. 4, the 'lux is faster and sharper, while the -C is sharper and has better bokeh. I've never had a substantial desire to own a v. 4 'cron, though I'm sure I'd be about as happy with it as with the others, once I adjusted to its peculiarities.
They're all great lenses. As is the Biogon f/2, and the Summarit, and the 'cron ASPH. None of 'em are "ultimate."
And I haven't even mentioned the pre-ASPH 'lux. Not my kettle of fish (or, rather, tub o' glass), but it has its own fan club who would never part with it and their opinion is as good as anyone else's.
I truly don't understand people who think they need a focus lever, or who can't stand levers.
I totally understand the desire to have a lens with a rectangular hood, though. It's totally irrational and insane, and, actually, kind of pathetic, but I must acknowledge that rectangular hoods are just so damn cool. That may be the single best basis upon which to make the choice. Certainly a better reason than the optical differences, which are just not that large for practical photography.
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Fuchs
Well-known
I used for a long time the Summicron IV, then I switched to the asph. Sharpness is greatly superior with this last one. But, higher contrast made me miss the IV version.
Now I am using the ZM Biogon and I feel I have the best of both worlds. Higher sharpness and contrast than the Summicron IV, but less contrast than the asph.
I shortly used also the Nokton 35/1.4, but couldnt stand the distorsion near the borders.
Now I am using the ZM Biogon and I feel I have the best of both worlds. Higher sharpness and contrast than the Summicron IV, but less contrast than the asph.
I shortly used also the Nokton 35/1.4, but couldnt stand the distorsion near the borders.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
Buy both, if you can, shoot them exhaustively, then sell the one you don't like as much.
You can't make a bad choice between these two though.
Phil Forrest
You can't make a bad choice between these two though.
Phil Forrest
dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Having shot both the biogon and the summicron ASPH - I can honestly say that the difference is so minuscule that, unless you're Erwin Puts, you're not going to see it.
The only advantage you're going to get with the Leica is the size of the lens vs the Biogon - but the "bokeh king" is, in my opinion, over rated for the price it often commands.
I would still opt for the biogon given the choice you've laid out here.
Cheers,
Dave
The only advantage you're going to get with the Leica is the size of the lens vs the Biogon - but the "bokeh king" is, in my opinion, over rated for the price it often commands.
I would still opt for the biogon given the choice you've laid out here.
Cheers,
Dave
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
That is sound advice. But I urge you to ignore it, for exactly that reason.
What you really want is the new Summilux ASPH FLE.
Rectangular hood, lever focus, snazzy concave front element, and no one can say it's not optical butter.
dyao
Well-known
One issue to consider is size. I used to shoot with a Biogon but I've recently switched to a Canon 35/1.8. The Canon is much smaller and more discreet.
tanel
Established
While I understand that I didn't look around enough before making a new thread, I'm still grateful for the recomendations.
And to make it clear, I don't really care how this or that looks. Cameras and lenses are tools, nothing more. (-:
Why I put Summicron v.4 on the list was because I happened to see one for sale, in good condition and basically with the same price than Biogon, but with the hood and filter (and no, the shape of the hood doesn't bother me. As long as it does its job it can be whatever colour/shape it wants to be).
V.3 would be nice but right now I don't see anything on sale around my area. And lets say that I'm not a big fan of ordering anything via mail order. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'd like to see and hold the thing I'm about to buy before I do.
About the size.. is that really that big of a difference? Considering that I have smaller hand I'd figure it's more comftable for me to use smaller lenses. But given the fact that M mount lenses are small (compared to the slr glass), then.. is it something to consider?
I do, however, consider build and image guallity to be high value. They both are great lenses for what I've seen. But what Rover here said about the construction of the Summicron.. I'm starting to lean towards Biogon.
And to make it clear, I don't really care how this or that looks. Cameras and lenses are tools, nothing more. (-:
Why I put Summicron v.4 on the list was because I happened to see one for sale, in good condition and basically with the same price than Biogon, but with the hood and filter (and no, the shape of the hood doesn't bother me. As long as it does its job it can be whatever colour/shape it wants to be).
V.3 would be nice but right now I don't see anything on sale around my area. And lets say that I'm not a big fan of ordering anything via mail order. Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I'd like to see and hold the thing I'm about to buy before I do.
About the size.. is that really that big of a difference? Considering that I have smaller hand I'd figure it's more comftable for me to use smaller lenses. But given the fact that M mount lenses are small (compared to the slr glass), then.. is it something to consider?
I do, however, consider build and image guallity to be high value. They both are great lenses for what I've seen. But what Rover here said about the construction of the Summicron.. I'm starting to lean towards Biogon.
Krosya
Konicaze
Some corrections to above:
Those are Summarons 2.8 and 3.5, NOT Summarits.
Also, there is NO Summitar 35mm lens, but Summarit 35/2.5.
To add - there are also great lenses like :
M-Hexanon 35/2,
Some LTMs, like CV Ultron 35/1.7 and UC Hexanon 35/2 well worth considering.
Krosya
Konicaze
That is sound advice. But I urge you to ignore it, for exactly that reason.
What you really want is the new Summilux ASPH FLE.
Rectangular hood, lever focus, snazzy concave front element, and no one can say it's not optical butter.
Hehe. M-Hexanon has lever focus AND concave front element. CV Ultron is ASPH and has front concave element too. And I love them both.
Looking at the photos that Tom A. posted from the new Leica Summilux 35/1.4 ASPH w/floating element - I really didnt like the signature of the OOF areas, compared to older Summilux 35/1.4 ASH w/o floating element. Go figure.
leicashot
Well-known
IMHO the Bokeh king (AKA Heavyweight King) of 35mm is the Nokton 35/1.2 - quite easily actually. All shot wide open at 1.2
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semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Yes to all of that.
noimmunity
scratch my niche
I like that. The Heavyweight Champ!
FWIW, I had both the Biogon and the Heavyweight Champ, and I just couldn't bring myself to part with the latter.
But the Biogon is a great lens. Unless you absolutely need a smaller size and/or a focus tab, the Biogon is, in my opinion better, plus I prefer the color rendition and bokeh to boot.