dcsang
Canadian & Not A Dentist
Hi All,
Recently one of the RFF'ers has posted an M4-2 for sale in the classifieds. There's a tale of a repair being made to the shutter curtain by Sherry Krauter to the tune of $660. After about 30 rolls of film the second curtain failed and cost another $240.
Someone noted that this was typical that Sherry wouldn't stand behind her work.
Now, I don't know how long it takes some folks to burn through 30 rolls of film (some will shoot faster/more than others) but this raises a good question. Just how long do you expect any repair to "last"? Do you expect a warranty to be for 90 days? Six months? Longer? Another question would be just how long should a repair person stand behind their work? Under what conditions should they stand behind their work?
I'm curious about what people think about this and don't mean to single out Ms Krauter and only used her as an example due to the recent ad posted.
Cheers,
Dave
Recently one of the RFF'ers has posted an M4-2 for sale in the classifieds. There's a tale of a repair being made to the shutter curtain by Sherry Krauter to the tune of $660. After about 30 rolls of film the second curtain failed and cost another $240.
Someone noted that this was typical that Sherry wouldn't stand behind her work.
Now, I don't know how long it takes some folks to burn through 30 rolls of film (some will shoot faster/more than others) but this raises a good question. Just how long do you expect any repair to "last"? Do you expect a warranty to be for 90 days? Six months? Longer? Another question would be just how long should a repair person stand behind their work? Under what conditions should they stand behind their work?
I'm curious about what people think about this and don't mean to single out Ms Krauter and only used her as an example due to the recent ad posted.
Cheers,
Dave
Vobluda
Well-known
Here are warranties on repairs given by law - the minimum is 3 months, for some repairs is 6 months or more. Of course the service can give longer warranty then the one given by law.
The warranty on the new goods is 2 years by law in CZ, sellers could give more.
The return period for items purchased over the internet from business seller is 14 days (no matter if new or used, no matter if it is firm price at www shop or auction) without any reason to be given by buyer - this is the same in the whole EU.
The warranty on the new goods is 2 years by law in CZ, sellers could give more.
The return period for items purchased over the internet from business seller is 14 days (no matter if new or used, no matter if it is firm price at www shop or auction) without any reason to be given by buyer - this is the same in the whole EU.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
Repair people set their own policies. Only once did I say something like "you did work on this gizmo and it went back to its evil ways" and got a free repair. Generally, I have not have problems with any of the two biggies (Sherry and Don), but I believe Central Camera in Chicago offers the most generous warranty: one year on used items and six months on repairs.
EDIT: BTW, it was George Milton, the meter repair person at Quality Light Magic, who fixed a Leica meter for free when I sent it to him about 9 months after he had fixed it. I was expecting his phone call with an estimate, and ready to pay, but he simply shipped it back with a zero in his invoice.
EDIT: BTW, it was George Milton, the meter repair person at Quality Light Magic, who fixed a Leica meter for free when I sent it to him about 9 months after he had fixed it. I was expecting his phone call with an estimate, and ready to pay, but he simply shipped it back with a zero in his invoice.
slidesandthecity
Established
I think it depends.
If the camera has been used professionally for several decades and one of the gears in (for example) the film advance mechanism is worn out and gets replaced one should not expect the whole mechanism (or even the whole camera) to be back in like new condition and be prepared for more trouble in the near future. In this case I would not expect any kind of warranty except on the new part.
If however the repairman makes any obvious mistake such as forgetting half of the screws when reassembling the camera after a CLA, I'd expect a free repair if this causes any trouble.
If the camera has been used professionally for several decades and one of the gears in (for example) the film advance mechanism is worn out and gets replaced one should not expect the whole mechanism (or even the whole camera) to be back in like new condition and be prepared for more trouble in the near future. In this case I would not expect any kind of warranty except on the new part.
If however the repairman makes any obvious mistake such as forgetting half of the screws when reassembling the camera after a CLA, I'd expect a free repair if this causes any trouble.
VTHokiEE
Well-known
This is tough, I would expect the repair to warrantied for around 90 days. However, if a different part fails, as frustrating as that is, can you really blame the repair person or expect them to fix it free of charge?
swoop
Well-known
I would hope it's somewhere between 3-6 months. I think that's a reasonable amount of time between the repair being botched and the mechanism actually breaking again.
Balto
Established
Depending on the price and the repair done I think 90 days to 6 months is fair.
f16sunshine
Moderator
I think it depends on what is being done.
90days for a shutter repair alone seems fine.
A complete overhaul should have a 6-12 month guarantee imo.
90days for a shutter repair alone seems fine.
A complete overhaul should have a 6-12 month guarantee imo.
btgc
Veteran
Generally, warranty on used stuff or repairs is a can of worms, just open it.
I agree to most of said before me and want to point out there are cases...and there are cases. Say, some time after service owner discovers camera isn't working properly. It can be completely unrelated issue and it can arise from improper assembly job, that is, depend on how first repair were done even if not being direct scope of work.
Good repairmen will cover issue at no extra charge if they recognize their fault. Do will all do this? Sending to another shop who detects colleagues fault is an option. But not always it is easy to tell real reason, at least, claim it as 100% valid reason.
So it depends a lot on who services camera, their expertise, habits, generosity and ethics.
I agree to most of said before me and want to point out there are cases...and there are cases. Say, some time after service owner discovers camera isn't working properly. It can be completely unrelated issue and it can arise from improper assembly job, that is, depend on how first repair were done even if not being direct scope of work.
Good repairmen will cover issue at no extra charge if they recognize their fault. Do will all do this? Sending to another shop who detects colleagues fault is an option. But not always it is easy to tell real reason, at least, claim it as 100% valid reason.
So it depends a lot on who services camera, their expertise, habits, generosity and ethics.
mikemc_photo
Established
I had a written warranty of 90 days, always suggested a test roll or so, and if the customer acted like a human, I usually took care for 6 months. Condition of the rig except for impact usually made little difference as dirt is dirt, and on quality equipment parts failure is uncommon.
Pioneer
Veteran
I expect it to work when I get it back. A warranty on the repair is a nice touch, a lot of people I have worked with have periods ranging from 90 days out to a year.
If I get a camera repaired and the repair does not hold up (very rare), I will contact the person who did the repair. To date they have wanted to see it back so they can check it out themselves. In both cases they repaired it for nothing. But I do have to say that neither case was for a repair that was over 3 months old.
I do think that if I had a repaired camera break a 2nd time (problem with same repaired component) and that repair person was not interested in seeing the camera back I would probably stop using that person.
Now, that being said, I have had one or two repairs done where the repair tech called and explained that they could not warranty their repair for one reason or another. I respect that and like working with people who are honest with me.
BTW, though Sherry has never repaired anything for me yet, I have spoken with her a couple times and find her to be very straightforward and honest, even to the point of recommending another repair person for a given camera. I would not hesitate to send something to her.
If I get a camera repaired and the repair does not hold up (very rare), I will contact the person who did the repair. To date they have wanted to see it back so they can check it out themselves. In both cases they repaired it for nothing. But I do have to say that neither case was for a repair that was over 3 months old.
I do think that if I had a repaired camera break a 2nd time (problem with same repaired component) and that repair person was not interested in seeing the camera back I would probably stop using that person.
Now, that being said, I have had one or two repairs done where the repair tech called and explained that they could not warranty their repair for one reason or another. I respect that and like working with people who are honest with me.
BTW, though Sherry has never repaired anything for me yet, I have spoken with her a couple times and find her to be very straightforward and honest, even to the point of recommending another repair person for a given camera. I would not hesitate to send something to her.
thegman
Veteran
Depends on what it is I suppose, if it's something like range finder alignment, then in a way, no warranty at all is reasonable, as it can only take a knock and it's back out again.
Generally though, I think if I found a repairer who did not warranty their work at all, then I think I'd probably give them a miss.
Generally though, I think if I found a repairer who did not warranty their work at all, then I think I'd probably give them a miss.
willie_901
Veteran
For a niche market you take whatever you can get.
sanmich
Veteran
It all depends on the type of repair.
for an RF alignment, yes it can go out of alignment if you knock it.
OTOH, if I send a reliable camera for a CLA, I expect speeds and advance to be ok for years.
Now the questions remains, for how long do you expect the second repair to be free.
That's something else entirely.
In my personal experience, some repair persons, if it's a second repair on something reliable, even years after the first one, will cut you some slack on the price, and I find it the reasonable way.
We are, after all, putting lots of money on these little mechanical wonders. I do expect a good service to hold.
for an RF alignment, yes it can go out of alignment if you knock it.
OTOH, if I send a reliable camera for a CLA, I expect speeds and advance to be ok for years.
Now the questions remains, for how long do you expect the second repair to be free.
That's something else entirely.
In my personal experience, some repair persons, if it's a second repair on something reliable, even years after the first one, will cut you some slack on the price, and I find it the reasonable way.
We are, after all, putting lots of money on these little mechanical wonders. I do expect a good service to hold.
flyingpalm
Well-known
After a full CLA, how many people tested the whole shutter speeds?
From 1s to 1/1000s, are you using machine to test it?
Do you use machine to test infinity focus?
From 1s to 1/1000s, are you using machine to test it?
Do you use machine to test infinity focus?
mikemc_photo
Established
Not many have a real speeds checker or slit with checker and a Collimator...
That said if you can see the curtains you should see speeds up to 1/1000 varying, and a ground glass and loupe will allow you to ck lens focus.
I will still tell you to shoot a roll, check it out on the negative, as the film doesn't lie
I have used collimators for prime lens and rangefinder adjustment, We had a old WWII bombsight that we adapted for kalart rangefinders think Speed Graflex youngsters)
Nothing better than a sturdy tripod and a bright day a 30x magnifier and glean ground glass always worked well....up to 1000mm lenses
djhurley92
Established
I got my IIIf from Red Dot in London. They gave me a 6 month warranty, and I sent it back after 5 months because the shutter was leaking. They replaced the shutter for free and gave me another 6 months for that repair . That seems more than fair to me...
. That seems more than fair to me...DougFord
on the good foot
If the repair person replaced an entire shutter curtain assembly with a NEW factory built one and the installation and adjustments of the assembly meet the manufacturers specification and it fails due to mechanical failure then the part should be under the manufacturers warranty. I suppose the part could be a used part, whose condition is unknown and its future uncertain. Presumably the customer is familiar with the policy of the business in question before handing over their pride and joy.
What if it's a new assembly that's been sitting on the shelf for a year. Would the manufacturer honor the warranty?
What is Leica's warranty on parts purchased by a customer? Specifically a shutter assembly?
What if it's a new assembly that's been sitting on the shelf for a year. Would the manufacturer honor the warranty?
What is Leica's warranty on parts purchased by a customer? Specifically a shutter assembly?
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
The problem from the technician's point of view is that you can open the thing, see something obvious and then do you repair it or continue to strip it down and check everything? Think about the difference in price for the labour...
The second problem is that the acid test is a couple of rolls of slide film, with the shots spread out over a day or two with all speeds and apertures being used and flash and so on and that would double the repair cost.
I was speaking to a very revered tech. the other year and he was saying that you can strip it right down and then re-assemble for X hundred pounds but who would pay when told that it needs a new part and that it's not available, nor repairable? So he doesn't touch some makes and never all-electronic stuff...
The honest ones will tell you that you are opening a can of worms and the price might go through the roof, and they usually do and it sometimes does. I am thinking of my old Audi as I type this.
Regards, David
PS On the other hand, I once said if it's going to end up as scrap then take it apart and check and we won't bother with putting it together if it is (as the scrap value would be the same). It paid off as the first hour's work showed the thing need not be a write off. But it cost me thousands to buy new and the paid for hour's work was seen as an investment.
The problem from the technician's point of view is that you can open the thing, see something obvious and then do you repair it or continue to strip it down and check everything? Think about the difference in price for the labour...
The second problem is that the acid test is a couple of rolls of slide film, with the shots spread out over a day or two with all speeds and apertures being used and flash and so on and that would double the repair cost.
I was speaking to a very revered tech. the other year and he was saying that you can strip it right down and then re-assemble for X hundred pounds but who would pay when told that it needs a new part and that it's not available, nor repairable? So he doesn't touch some makes and never all-electronic stuff...
The honest ones will tell you that you are opening a can of worms and the price might go through the roof, and they usually do and it sometimes does. I am thinking of my old Audi as I type this.
Regards, David
PS On the other hand, I once said if it's going to end up as scrap then take it apart and check and we won't bother with putting it together if it is (as the scrap value would be the same). It paid off as the first hour's work showed the thing need not be a write off. But it cost me thousands to buy new and the paid for hour's work was seen as an investment.
thegman
Veteran
I got my IIIf from Red Dot in London. They gave me a 6 month warranty, and I sent it back after 5 months because the shutter was leaking. They replaced the shutter for free and gave me another 6 months for that repair
Yes, I've used Red Dot a few times, only ever had good experiences. Fair prices on trade ins, and no questions asked when I returned a faulty camera. They took it back, and I got another one, done.