A7 a revolution?

[ernesto]

I am amazed with the new A7.
Mainly because I love to use wide angle lens, and this camera can acept all the great Wides, no matter the brand name, thanks to the wide choise of adapters in the market now.
Wides for SRL cameras are too big, complex, and always very expensive, mainly because of the phisical limitation of the mirror mechanism.
The Digital viewfinder of the A7 is so improved that there is not a great diference with the reflex systems now.
Of course I am aware of the limitation of sensors when light comes at a small angle specially in the corners and using wides with rear elements close to the sensor, but I assume this is going to be solved as we could see that Leica did, at least partially.
It seems that the A7 has established a new standard, to replace the -up today- SRL systems.
Perhaps the A7 is not that refined yet, but it seems the first camera system that could really dispute the place of the so called pro systems.
In my opinion the main brands (Nikon Canon etc) were "sleeping" and are probably unaware of the meaning of the new A7. Perhaps they forgot to explore that new way, because of their excesive confidence in their superiority.
Sony was first. And perhaps it has to do with a technology change. In the old times cameras had to do with Optics and Presition Mechanics, as the old Contax made by Carl Zeiss, and the main japanese companies followed the way. But now Electronics is the technology, and Sony was better positioned to give an answer. It was an inteligent answer, since their strength is in Electronics, they let main Optical compamies to share the success with them, not attempting to master a technology that is out of their expertise.
It is hard to see the future, that is the reason for the question: revolution? but it seems that there are great probablities that this is the case.


Ernesto

Here I am posting some related links:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/essays/cameras/the_mirrorless_revolution.shtml
http://www.setsail.com/sony-alpha-7-a-revolution-in-camera-gear/
http://ashmolephotography.com/blog/2013/why-sony-will-cause-a-camera-revolution-with-the-a7-and-a7r
http://www.imaging-resource.com/new...t-will-sonys-affordable-full-frame-mirrorless

 

[YYV_146]

Kolari vision is offering a thin filter stack modification on the A7 that should improve corner performance with many UWs. Additionally they can remove the AA filter which should improve resolution across the frame. I will be sending my A7 in after I finish a few assignments. If you like to work with wider short register lenses the option could be tempting.

I've once again decided not to get a digital M (partly because of the Kolarivision mod) and will be using the funds to buy a 75mm Summicron Asph, which will be used on my A7 and A7S

 

[Godfrey]

Welcome Ernesto! It's nice to see the enthusiasm of newcomers to the A7 line. 🙂

The Sony A7 cameras are indeed very good performers in many ways. I've had my A7 for coming up on a year now, using it pretty specifically as an SLR-replacement for my Leica R and Nikkor lenses, and I'm very pleased with its performance. It's about the size of a Nikon FM, give or take a little, which makes it a nice match to the SLR lenses with adapter tube. I have lenses in these mounts from 19 to 180mm that work well, I don't really need anything more.

Some of my M-mount lenses work well on the A7, notably the M-Rokkor 40mm and the 50mm and longer lenses. 35s and shorter are a bit trickier. The Ultron 28/2 seemed to work poorly but the Color Skopar 28/3.5 works pretty nicely. I've used the Color Skopar 21/4 on it for B&W, which gets around the color shifting issues. But honestly, M-mount lenses other than longer focal lengths really require special sensors or in-camera software correction to do their best. Sony is unlikely to put the effort into that for the A7 line since their real interests are best served by creating and selling lenses for these cameras.

The A7's EVF is quite good—not quite state of the art when compared to the Olympus E-M1 or Fuji X-T1, but darn close. The body is, again, quite good if a little rough here and there. There is luckily just enough customization available that I can get a camera out of it that I like using with manual focus lenses.

As to whether the A7 is ready to replace the SLR ... not yet. But I'm sure the A7 represents what will become a more mainstream camera type. TTL Electronic (aka mirrorless) cameras have only been around for a few years as yet (less than seven) and have all their growth in front of them, where RF and SLR camera types have been very mature designs with little real development of the basic optics/viewfinder layout for a long long time now. Photography is a highly technological endeavor: tons of money is being poured into TTL electronic camera development at present and, as they say, where the money goes so the standards flow.

Enjoy your A7. It may not do everything best, but for what it is it does a great job.

G

 

[Sanders McNew]

I don't know if it's a revolution but I just made an A7ii my first
digital camera. I've been shooting an old Tokyo Nikkor 50/1.4
in LTM and it's fantastic. I may not be shooting my Rolleiflex
any time soon.

 

[Rob-F]

This short thread starts with Ernesto looking forward to using "all the great wides," and moves right away into Godfrey reminding us that rangefinder wides, anything shorter than 40mm to 50mm, require a special sensor (which the A7 apparently does not have) and are likely a problem on the A7--some more so than others.

I was somewhat impressed with the A7 after handling one at the dealer's. But I played with it with its kit lens on it. I'd want to use it with my 21, 24, 28, and 35mm Leica and CV lenses. And even my 15mm CV. Godfrey's note is a reality check: maybe Leica wide angle lenses should be used on Leica digital bodies. Reminder to self: don't sell the M8.2. Instead, have DAG code my lenses.

 

[kuuan]

kolarvision offers a remedy, see this thread: http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146780

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Does new one has better EVF?
I checked something with Sony and A7 on it in the store few weeks ago. Motion blur while on panning and long stabilizing time after panning is finished made this camera as no use to me.

 

[tuanvinh2000]

everytime i uses mine i have to say how quick/easy it is to use and the 1/8000 speed is amazing (compared to leica M film 1/1000). that plus some M mount lens, the converted BW looks almost medium format to me (in some right condition).

 

[Contarama]

TS I think what you say has merit.

I think credit for the 'revolution' belongs to the micro four thirds boys, Epson, and Leica/Kodak IMO.

The Sony is fantastic.

The Sony looks like a Sony to me. 🙂

 

[Jan Pedersen]

I have been very happy with my A7II so far, have had it for a little over a month and I rarely go anywhere without have it hanging in my right hand strap around the wrist a few times.
I bought it mainly to be used with legacy lenses and it has been great to really see the differences that for me at least have been difficult to see on film.
The 50 1.4 Tokyo as Sanders mention above is a real favorite.
RF wide angles needs to be chosen wisely as is well known, I have 3 35mm lenses, the Cron V4, Nikon S 3.5 2.5 and the ltm Ultron 1.7
The Ultron is useless on this camera, at no f stops will corners look good and even the center is really not that sharp. The Cron is surprisingly better than I had anticipated, stopped down to 5.6 and at infinity there is little to no color change in the corners but opening up or stopping down the color starts to change. The Nikkor is very similar to the Cron, f5.6 it the best f stop but f8 also is pretty good but light falloff is greater than the Cron but easily compensated for in post processing.
The only wider RF lens that i have is the CV 21 f4 and that is not good on the Sony.
With the close focus CV M to E and the Amedeo Nikon S to M adapter I have a lot of fun with this camera.
The size and the handling is perfect for me, I would not want it smaller than it is.
Shutter noise is annoying and I have some intermittent problems with the screen not turning on for viewing so I may have to turn it in for repair at some point but I really like the camera.

 

[uhoh7]

I think credit for the 'revolution' belongs to the micro four thirds boys, Epson, and Leica/Kodak IMO.

What we are talking about is digital alternative to M. Sony has lead the way: first, with the new short register E mount, for which there were adapters for everything within months of release in 2010. By using APS-C Sony left M43 behind.

Users of the Nex cameras, like me, cried long and loud for full frame, to the amusement of most, who calmly told us that was a niche Sony would never scratch.

The full frame did come and we had very high hopes. But Sony had it's own agenda, influenced by video, which has hamstrung the entire A7 series with a thick sensor cover that makes stellar wide performance not easy to achieve with any lens.

Currently the 1635 zoom is considered the best wide option for image quality on the un-modified A7 models.

But for 400USD kolari changes out the sensor stack and the camera is suddenly very usable with all but the most intransigent wide M glass. But this is not available for A72.

It's no revolution, it's the obvious: an M6 or CL sized digital FF body for the many great M lenses.

 

[kxl]

Just an fyi those who are only now hearing about the Kolari mod. From the LensRentals.com site:

"I should also point out that there is a slight decrease in corner resolution with the modified camera compared to stock. A difference of 20 lp/IH is almost certainly not significant. The difference of 40 lp/IH might be, that's about the range where we see a consistent difference. A larger sample size will be necessary to clarify that."

The Sony FE 55/1.8 is my primary lens on my A7R. I also intend to purchase the Sony FE 28/2.0. The above quote states that corner performance degradation with the Kolari mod may or may not be noticeable. That's not a risk I'm willing to take for the sake of improved performance of adapted M-mount wides. So, I'll have to wait until a much larger sample size is tested, or get an A7 specifically for this mod.

 

[Huss]

Does new one has better EVF?
I checked something with Sony and A7 on it in the store few weeks ago. Motion blur while on panning and long stabilizing time after panning is finished made this camera as no use to me.

That's the thing I noticed too when I tried one.
But absolutely no mention of it by the major blogger$$ who claim it is the be$t camera ever.
It's what prevented me from buying one.

 

[Rob-F]

I noticed the motion blur right away and didn't like it. It's not so bad with my X100, since I only use the EVF when really needed. Is there no Fuji full frame using their optical EVF combo finder? If not, I'll wait.

 

[Godfrey]

This short thread starts with Ernesto looking forward to using "all the great wides," and moves right away into Godfrey reminding us that rangefinder wides, anything shorter than 40mm to 50mm, require a special sensor (which the A7 apparently does not have) and are likely a problem on the A7--some more so than others.

I was somewhat impressed with the A7 after handling one at the dealer's. But I played with it with its kit lens on it. I'd want to use it with my 21, 24, 28, and 35mm Leica and CV lenses. And even my 15mm CV. Godfrey's note is a reality check: maybe Leica wide angle lenses should be used on Leica digital bodies. Reminder to self: don't sell the M8.2. Instead, have DAG code my lenses.

Yes. The A7 worked well with my Leica R lenses, but most of the time was poor with M-mount wides. I've acquired an M-P body and have replaced my Color Skopar 21 and Ultron 28 with an Elmar-M 24. Between that and occasional use of Nikkor 18mm or Elmarit-R 19mm, I now get the wide lens performance I was looking for. And I like shooting with the M-P more than I did with the A7, particularly for my usual 35-50-90 lens set.

G

 

[dcsang]

The A7 with the 21mm Zeiss Biogon M-mount is just fine in my opinion. Ya, the uber wide stuff (wider than 21mm) is going to "smear" in the corners and you really have to determine, for yourself, whether it's that big of a deal. To me it's not but, then again, I'm not hanging my photos in galleries nor am I trying to sell them for profit - I'm happy with what I get out of the A7 (and I also have an M240 so go figure...) 😀

Regarding 35mm.... well... that new Zeiss Distagon that Sony and Zeiss have produced is a killer lens. Yes it's a bigger but I have a tough time finding fault with that lens. It is far superior to even the Nikon 35mm f1.4 G lens that was released a few years back. It's that good!

Cheers,
Dave

 

[uhoh7]

Just an fyi those who are only now hearing about the Kolari mod. From the LensRentals.com site:

"I should also point out that there is a slight decrease in corner resolution with the modified camera compared to stock. A difference of 20 lp/IH is almost certainly not significant. The difference of 40 lp/IH might be, that's about the range where we see a consistent difference. A larger sample size will be necessary to clarify that."

The Sony FE 55/1.8 is my primary lens on my A7R. I also intend to purchase the Sony FE 28/2.0. The above quote states that corner performance degradation with the Kolari mod may or may not be noticeable. That's not a risk I'm willing to take for the sake of improved performance of adapted M-mount wides. So, I'll have to wait until a much larger sample size is tested, or get an A7 specifically for this mod.

In the real world no one seems to be seeing the 55 look worse, or even the 35. Meanwhile the zooms are better. Loxia better or the same. FE 35/1.4 apparently better.

A used A7 is now only around 700 USD. So, for 1100 USD, you have a camera superior with ALL manual focus lenses or lenses designed for film. For example, my nFD 24/2 is drastically improved.

The SEM 21 is unusable with any stock A7 including the S. It's quite good with the A7.mod:

Prairie Creek by unoh7, on Flickr

Lens design is alot about getting good performance outside the central frame and it's been a long hard fight. A 21 Biogon on the stock A7 won't show all the effort, that's for sure. But on the Kolari mod, it will.

The bad news is there was a fire at the glass factory and Kolari orders are delayed at the moment.

Here the ZM18 on mod A7:

DSC02719 by unoh7, on Flickr

and 28 cron, infinity f/8:

a7m_28cron_f8 by unoh7, on Flickr

It's really a whole new camera with the thin sensor stack. But of course the menu annoyances and the EVF are still there LOL

 

[dcsang]

If Sony (and Zeiss) continue to develop lenses that are similar to the new 35mm FE Distagon.. then it's going to be very hard for other lenses to compete - even if they're manual focus Leica lenses.

If you want to look at some examples of what that new 35mm FE Distagon can do.. take a look at my Flickr.

This sample is on Flickr for all to see - Straight out of the camera Jpeg - no adjustments and at f1.4:


Cheers,
Dave

 

[Godfrey]

If Sony (and Zeiss) continue to develop lenses that are similar to the new 35mm FE Distagon.. then it's going to be very hard for other lenses to compete - even if they're manual focus Leica lenses. ...

The problem for me is that I just don't like the A7 bodies all that much—they seem clunky in use to me—so I'm reluctant to invest in a dedicated set of fairly pricey lenses for the mount. I also don't really trust Sony for a development path, too many times they've dropped the ball in the past.

Olympus, Nikon, Leica.. They're hardly perfect, but for me they've persevered through decades of continued development on both bodies and lenses. I feel more comfortable relying on them.

The biggest limitation on my photography is me, whether I am using a Holga or a Hasselblad, so I might as well at least be comfortable with what I buy and use, eh? 🙂

G

 

[asilda]

It's been a little over a year since I switched. I wrote about my journey a few times and here are some of my images shot on a7R. I love the camera, but it took me a while to get over all the variety of film lenses I could put on the camera and all that other stuff. So in my experience it's an unbelievable camera that produces (in my opinion) more solid images than a dSLR.

http://asildaphotography.com/sony-a7r-review-switching-from-canon-to-sony
http://asildaphotography.com/4-weeks-with-sony-a7r-part-2-of-the-review
http://asildaphotography.com/3-cameras-in-10-days