Acros replacement options

B

Brian Legge

Veteran
Local time
10:35 AM
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
2,720
With Acros officially gone, it seemed like it would be worth starting a thread about options for replacing Acros. I originally planned to stock up on it but would rather support a company still dedicated to producing film.

I loved Acros for its fine grain, tonality, and ease of development. I experimented for a while before settling on shooting it at 50 and developing it in Rodinal. That worked well as I was shooting Tri X and developing it in Rodinal as well.

At this point, I'm ready to reassess all of it.

Others may want something else from this thread, but what I'd like are suggestions for:

- A film/developer pair with starting point suggestions for development times to replace Acros.
- Film available in 35mm and 120
- Ideally a pair with a reasonable price (some of the suggestions I've seen are 2-3x more expensive than Acros/Rodinal). I know this will vary by region.
- Bonus points if there is a 200-400 speed film that works with the developer.

I'm hoping others find this thread useful and that we're able to keep it separate from the main Acros thread. Lots of us used Acros for various reasons. Having a dedicated space to sort out replacements would be helpful.
 
Film stocks are like dogs. A film stock you have grown to like is like a dog you have grown to love. When he’s gone he can be “replaced”, but never duplicated, and it will never be the same. Better not to attempt the impossible, but just love what is left on its own merits.
No two film stocks look alike, no matter how they are shot or developed. Similar, some, certainly, but never the same. When she’s gone she’s gone.
But, if I were to pretend otherwise, and in the spirit of the thread, Tmax 100 in Tmax developer or Perceptol (because ACROS had as many “looks” as there are developers).

Missing Panatomic X, somethind else for which there are no duplicates.
 
My suggestion would be Ilford's Delta 100. They have a Delta 400 for your faster speed needs, both available in 35mm and 120. I use HC110 1:100, works fine while being simple to use (I use a baby medicine syringe to dose out the 3-5ml each roll gets immediately before dilution for use) and is quite inexpensive to use one-shot.

Not the same tonality (nothing is, Acros was fairly unique in its spectral sensitivity) but Ilford is likely the best company in terms of long term support of traditional b&w film.
 
Delta is NOT a viable replacement, the tonality is totally different due to Ilford having more red sensitivity.

Both TMax100 and Delta 100 are close, in terms of grain.
Tonality, perhaps FP4.

You may also like Adox 100 CHS in terms of tonality....don't think it's similar in the grain-department.

Reciprocity-vise......you are buggered.
 
I never shot a huge amount of Acros myself so couldn't offer an accurate direct comparison but I do develop all of my film in Rodinal. The last 18 months or so have seen me shooting Fomapan film exclusively. I prefer the Fomapan 400 stock for daylight work in the UK, where there is often a significant lack of said daylight, but it comes at 100 / 200 / 400 speeds in both 35mm and 120.

I absolutely love it. When developed as per instruction in Rodinal the mid and silver tones really hit the sweet spot for me. The resultant negative is therefore often a little flatter than some would like, but I'd rather the ability to add contrast during printing than forcibly reduce it.

It is worth noting that Foma produce a developer of their own named Fomadon R09 which is essentially Agfa Rodinal. This may be of use to you in replicating your previous work flow, and it is also the Rodinal stock that my technician uses to develop my film for me so I know it compliments Fomapan films very well. I've found the combination incredibly stable, with films developed 12 months apart always showing identical exposure and density values during scanning. Although that's probably more a compliment to the technician than the brand.

But here's the best bit.....!!!

Cost per roll of 35mm x36 from my favoured supplier as of right now:

Fuji Acros - £6.29
Fomapan - £3.26

Two for the price of one!

And finally, an example of Fomapan 400 developed in Rodinal.



I hope that's of use to somebody out there. If not, this thread will undoubtedly produce the goods.
 
I also like Fomapan, I basically shoot Foma and Acros in 100.
Foma is "older", amazing tonality, really a "retro" type of film.

It has less red-sensitivity than Acros, and that's why I really like it and shoot it a lot.

Acros is more clinical, much cleaner and definitely better resolution.
Also, the reciprocity properties of Foma is......not Acros =)

I do like both, but they are definitely not the same :)
 
My thoughts, there are plenty of other films to buy and use.

I bought some Legacy 100 (as I understand it is Acros, it says made in Japan on the container) 100 foot rolls of 35 mm when Freestyle was closing it out. Primiarly because of the price.

Also bought some Legacy 400 at the same time.
 
znapper said:
It has less red-sensitivity than Acros, and that's why I really like it and shoot it a lot.
Click to expand...

Foma 100 has vastly *more* red sensitivity than Acros:
http://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-100
https://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/NeopanAcros100.pdf

TMX is closest in grain. Both TMX and Delta 100 can be similar tonally with careful choice of developer. Both TMX and Delta 100 need heavy filtration to get a similar spectral response, with a large attendant loss of speed. Neither have reciprocity characteristics anything like as good as Acros but TMX is better than Delta 100 in this regard:
http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/products/f4016_TMax_100.pdf
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1866/product_id/679/

So, as usual, there is no direct replacement, in this case unsurprisingly, because Acros is an idiosyncratic product.

Marty
 
That's funny, Foma also claim that their 100 ISO film is 100 and their 400 ISO film is 400, which they aren't in reality.

Delta gives paler lips on my models than Acros, which, again, gives paler lips than Foma. This is one of the more important aspects when i shoot, so that it why I tend to prefer certain films over the others.

Foma may _claim_ their red-sensitivity is such and such, but in reality (and luckily), my experience is that it really isn't, i get consistently darker lips on models with Foma, interpret that as you may.

In my experience, Ilford, Fuji and Kodak is usually much more consistent and correct in their charts than Fomapan.
 
There's nothing that compares to Acros' tonality, and that is a good thing. It had the ugliest tonality of any modern BW film. The midtones were flat and lifeless. Any other film is better in my opinion. The only thing Acros was good at was very low light work, because it had almost no reciprocity failure, and nothing else available can match Acros in that regard.

My favorite combination is Ilford FP-4 in PMK. FP-4 is a versatile film, though and it works well in Rodinal and D-76 too.

Tmax 100 in Rodinal, D-76, or Tmax Developer is nice too.

I have not tried Delta 100, but Delta 400 is beautiful in Tmax Developer.
 
Acros for Portraits

Acros for Portraits

I do beg to differ on one point, I really liked Acros for portraiture. It is outstanding in this regard. Some of the 16x20 prints that I've made with a Hassy are simply fabulous and hence good income producers.

I've been scouring the world trying to find some for sale. Wex in the UK has it but they won't ship out of the country. One of the Calumet stores in Germany had 3 rolls. B&H and Adorama are completely out. :bang: I've placed an order with Samy's. They have none in their warehouse but are going to pull together what they have in all their stores in SoCal, but I'm number 3 in line with a 40 roll order.

So, do I like it? Yes!
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
There's nothing that compares to Acros' tonality, and that is a good thing. It had the ugliest tonality of any modern BW film. The midtones were flat and lifeless. Any other film is better in my opinion. . . .
Click to expand...
Dear Chris,

I'd certainly agree but fortunately for Fuji there were many who did/do like the beastly stuff, and I've had a couple of decent pictures from it myself.

Cheers,

R.
 
samuelphoto said:
B&H and Adorama are completely out.
Click to expand...

Wow, you're not kidding! Its gone from B&H's website. Makes me think they're not taking any new orders; any new shipments go first to those who ordered during this past week when they were closed.

(They do have it in 620 size though...)
 
znapper said:
That's funny, Foma also claim that their 100 ISO film is 100 and their 400 ISO film is 400, which they aren't in reality.

Delta gives paler lips on my models than Acros, which, again, gives paler lips than Foma. This is one of the more important aspects when i shoot, so that it why I tend to prefer certain films over the others.

Foma may _claim_ their red-sensitivity is such and such, but in reality (and luckily), my experience is that it really isn't, i get consistently darker lips on models with Foma, interpret that as you may.

In my experience, Ilford, Fuji and Kodak is usually much more consistent and correct in their charts than Fomapan.
Click to expand...

Yes, Foma do (or at least did) get a bit creative with developer choices for ISO speeds, but that is allowed under ISO rules. About 20 years ago I actually plotted D/Log E curves for Foma 200, and found that it is all but identical to Ilford FP4 Plus in most developers, including a couple of speed increasing developers which put it close enough to ISO 200 to allow it to be sold as such. Which is exactly what they showed on their spec sheet.

Why would they lie about red sensitivity? Sure, it's possible that they changed sensitizing dyes without updating the spectrography, but it seems more than a little unlikely. And in any case, blue filtration will knock back red sensitivity and darken lips: higher red sensitivity means paler lips, not lighter which is what you are saying unless I am misreading you.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Why would they lie about red sensitivity? Sure, it's possible that they changed sensitizing dyes without updating the spectrography, but it seems more than a little unlikely. And in any case, blue filtration will knock back red sensitivity and darken lips: higher red sensitivity means paler lips, not lighter which is what you are saying unless I am misreading you.

Cheers,

R.
Click to expand...

I get less pale lips (darker on the final photo) with Foma 100, that's what I am saying.
 
I have had great luck with Acros but I really only use it for fast changing low light, primarily when it its going from evening to night and especially when weather plays a role.

I find that kind of light to be incredible to work in and really makes the whole idea of tonal nuances easily take a back seat to the resulting photographs.

As far as replacing it, I use a fair amount of Tmax 100 and 400 and even some Pan-F so I will roll with that. I ought to be good to go on Acros for a number of years if I stick to it's special purpose use though, I will have about 500 rolls of it in 120 once my orders come in this week.
 
Brian Legge said:
Others may want something else from this thread, but what I'd like are suggestions for:

- A film/developer pair with starting point suggestions for development times to replace Acros.
- Film available in 35mm and 120
- Ideally a pair with a reasonable price (some of the suggestions I've seen are 2-3x more expensive than Acros/Rodinal). I know this will vary by region.
- Bonus points if there is a 200-400 speed film that works with the developer.

I'm hoping others find this thread useful and that we're able to keep it separate from the main Acros thread. Lots of us used Acros for various reasons. Having a dedicated space to sort out replacements would be helpful.
Click to expand...


Hi Brian,

I'm sorry to hear Fujifilm has no longer been able to fight against the tide of digital commercialisation and wipeout of their film based presence. Fuji Acros has its unique characteristics which has made it my favourite 4x5inch sheet format and half-plate format film as well as 120 roll film.

Thinking about your replacement for Acros challenge, perhaps this depends on which angle a photographer comes to value Acros. It's hard to detract from Fuji Acros' superiority with extreme reciprocity failure control - which none of the remaining film offer on a par. I love its flexibility in use alongside its super fine grain characteristics, although its tonality is probably the reason I like it most [almost exclusively now with FX39 and Perceptol developer, but not at the same time].

I can't think of any black and white film which surpasses Fuji Acros in this regard, and would love to know. It is the film for night photographers and long slow exposure in the making. Perhaps we have to move on (celebrating what has been great about having lived to shoot with Fuji Acros) and make the most of what is left.

What is left?

Its fine grain and its unusually - near vintage - rendition of skin tones (described confusingly by Fujifilm as orthopanchromatic) isn't very well mirrored in modern TMax or Delta 100 emulsions. I've had to use TMax100 in whole plate format, due to shortage of Ilford FP4+ (limited annual run only) and find it's just okay. The Delta 100 strays furthest from the tonal scale of Fuji Acros in this respect. Either of these modern grained film offer a fine grain alternative - however not on a par with tonal scale alternative, in the same way that neither offer the same reciprocity failure benefits. You can play around with developers to get micro-differences.

Thinking about Ilford FP4+, its' tonal scale characteristics are very malleable in the darkroom: you use rodinal dilutions; I find this very beautiful, as well as using Ilford Perceptol (to dissolve the medium grain of Ilford FP4+) - the Perceptol combination offers less of the grainy FP4+ look in smaller formats and a lovely tonality. You can mask its grain using Pyro development techniques too - ultimately its grain structure makes it less like Fuji Acros, even if its speed is close (faster).

Rollei 80S (similar ISO to Fuji Acros) has a gorgeous tonal scale. Are you familiar with this film?

Perhaps, it appears more like the former Agfa APX100 to my eyes when developed in Rodinal 1:50 to 1:70 dilutions. It neither has Fuji Acros' reciprocity characteristics, and its tonal scale is bold, rich in mid-tone silver transitions with finer grain than Ilford FP4+. The disadvantage of this film is that its lack of an anti-curl layer, drives photographers spare with springing coils of film bouncing around the darkroom. It makes up for this in medium format where it is easier to cut off individual negatives. One added advantage, is that the Rollei 80S is a near-infrared film with IR715nm sensitivity, which allows the photographers' models to celebrate using green lipstick again, just like in the great era of film photography, in order to stop red lips from ghosting out.

Shanghai 100 speed film is a tradition emulsion - lacking all the above features of modern T grain or cubic grain film; lacking in reciprocity failure although its tonal scale is alright. It can be developed in Rodinal which you like (I presume, you are referring the latter RO9 formulation). It is fine in divided developers and Pyro based developers too. Similar films from Freestyle (USA), Lucky (China) and cut downs from Foma (EU) at 100 speeds are all traditional 100 speed type medium grain films - none of which will even approximate the characteristics of Fuji Acros when used competently.

Rollei RPX100 is worth trying (not as curly) - I have limited experience with this film, preferring the RPX25 instead (Rodinal again) which may be too slow, given your preference for medium speed film. I like KM-25' reference to the Ilford Pan F+ too - although I tend to work this at ISO 32 (even slower..!) instead of ISO 50 - if you can tolerate low ISO and work with it, it develops beautifully in Perceptol (fine grain developer) rated below its box speed - the image tonality is very pleasing, as is the fine grain. Still no reciprocity failure control however.

Rollei Superpan (similar to the 100 ISO budget films) and more grainy than Retro 80S, is perhaps not as interesting as Kodak Tri-X' tonal range. Tri-X is a great film with huge latitude and flexibility - however still no reciprocity failure comparison to Fuji Acros.

I guess there are other rebranded types of film suitable for replacement, depending on which characteristics of Fuji Acros can be abandoned foremost. I work with mostly slow emulsion: Fuji Acros is probably one of the fastest emulsions (!) whereas perhaps as a street photographer, you would find anything slower, compromising. As unlikely as it seems, Ilford Pan F+, FP4+ are probably the films which are easier to tolerate in the face of Fuji Acros' discontinuation. Rollei 80S is very particular in handling, although worthwhile with perseverance. RPX25 is lovely. If you can't decide, Kodak Tmax or Delta 100 swing it for enlargement factor.

Kind regards,
RJ
 
Freakscene said:
Foma 100 has vastly *more* red sensitivity than Acros:
http://www.foma.cz/en/fomapan-100
https://www.fujifilmusa.com/shared/bin/NeopanAcros100.pdf

TMX is closest in grain. Both TMX and Delta 100 can be similar tonally with careful choice of developer. Both TMX and Delta 100 need heavy filtration to get a similar spectral response, with a large attendant loss of speed. Neither have reciprocity characteristics anything like as good as Acros but TMX is better than Delta 100 in this regard:
http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/products/f4016_TMax_100.pdf
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1866/product_id/679/

So, as usual, there is no direct replacement, in this case unsurprisingly, because Acros is an idiosyncratic product.

Marty
Click to expand...

Thank you for these Spectral Curves they really tell the story. I will add the ilford FP4+ Spectral curve as it has also been discussed. Either read them and weep, or find one that you think suits you and try it.

https://www.theimagingwarehouse.com/file.php?filename=WebCat-00050004000100020004/FP4.pdf

Of course, there is the possibility that Fuji will sell the process or reignite it as a special product.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom