Adhesive Residue on 35mm Film?

[izman02]

Hi all,

Recently started developing film at home. Tri-X and HP5+ so far. Upon finishing developing, I've noticed what looks like a thin strip of adhesive residue on some rolls. It is outside the frames, either above or below, such as through the edge signing. Is that normal or is it a result of something gone wrong in the development process? It looks like the rolls could have come that way. On my latest roll of HP5+, the residue strip goes though the edge signing and some of the letters even rubbed off.

 

[Joao]

Welcome to RFF.
What you describe is not normal.
Is that residue easily removed ? Is it visible only on the margins of the negative ?? Or also in the center of the frame ?
Having a close-up image of the "residue" and knowing your development protocol would help the diagnosis.
Regards
Joao

 

[retinax]

Is it sticky like adhesive residue would be? If not, you may be seeing effects of a light leak or maybe of the reel keeping developer and/or fixer from the film where film and reel touch.

 

[Ronald M]

Soak reels in hot water and bleach ,10%. These must be kept clean. Clean with a brush after soak.

Once clean, a 60 sec rinse in hot water after each use is all you need. Store where they stay clean and dust free.

With used reels, you never know where they have been. Test a short 12 exposures ,18 inches, and if the problem persists just toss them.

 

[retinax]

Why on earth would one use bleach for that? And at that concentration? It's not that harmless, with a brush there's a risk of spraying it into one's eyes. And leftover bleached dirt will be hard to see on white plastic reels. Dish soap usually does the trick.

 

[Freakscene]

Why on earth would one use bleach for that? And at that concentration? It's not that harmless, with a brush there's a risk of spraying it into one's eyes. And leftover bleached dirt will be hard to see on white plastic reels. Dish soap usually does the trick.

Dish soap does not remove accumulated wetting agent. If you buy reels that have been used carelessly, or, worse, that have been used in a system or by an individual who dries film on the reels, there will be accumulated long chain molecules from wetting agent. In Kodak Photo Flo 200, for example, it is p-tert-octylphenoxy polyethoxyethyl alcohol. If there is build up you need to get rid of it. Bleach is a good way to do it, as is putting the reels in a dishwasher.

Marty

 

[retinax]

Ok I see. Still, dry dish soap first, it works just fine with the bit of grime my reels accumulate. And pleas don't use a brush and bleach without eye protection.

 

[izman02]

Thanks for the welcome!

Upon closer inspection, it looks like it may actually be grooves pressed into the film, presumably by the reel. Can you see the pictures I included? I developed two rolls the other night, no marks, so the reels must be fine. Did another single roll last night and they showed up. So maybe I'm loading wrong sometimes?

Using a 2-reel Paterson tank, D-76 stock according to Massive Dev, Ilfostop for 1 min, Ilford rapid fixer according to Massive Dev, single rinse, perma wash for 2 minutes, final wash for about 10 min, Kodak Photo-Flo for about 1 min. Hang dry in bathroom.

 

[izman02]

it's not sticky to the touch. I thought maybe it was dried residue, but now I'm thinking it's from physical pressure from the reel. That might explain better why the edge signing is coming off.

 

[izman02]

I bought the reels new, so prior use isn't an issue. But I've never cleaned them. All I do is rinse them good after I'm done developing. Should I do a more thorough cleaning?

 

[izman02]

larger pictures:

 

[Freakscene]

I bought the reels new, so prior use isn't an issue. But I've never cleaned them. All I do is rinse them good after I'm done developing. Should I do a more thorough cleaning?

What sort of reels are they? What sort of wetting agent do you use? Does the film go on easily? Reels need no special cleaning if the film is easy to load properly. Given that the scratches are outside the frame, you don't really need to worry, unless they make getting the film strips into and out of their storage problematic.

Marty

 

[Montag006]

I don't want to sound too doltish...

But could the source be a film rail in the camera?

or something else camera related?

IIRC this has happened on 2 of 4 rolls?

To me it appears like a scratching thing....

 

[Freakscene]

I don't want to sound too doltish...

But could the source be a film rail in the camera?

or something else camera related?

IIRC this has happened on 2 of 4 rolls?

To me it appears like a scratching thing....

Maybe but unlikely. It is very, very, very common to see these sort of scratches on film developed in plastic reels where the ball bearings are jammed or the catch mechanism has no give in it, and/or where the film is pulled out of the reels or otherwise scraped out of the reels by bending the film across its short dimension rather than being unravelled, having the reels taken apart, or another approach where the film is not bent along its short dimension.

Marty

 

[izman02]

What sort of reels are they? What sort of wetting agent do you use? Does the film go on easily? Reels need no special cleaning if the film is easy to load properly. Given that the scratches are outside the frame, you don't really need to worry, unless they make getting the film strips into and out of their storage problematic.

Marty

They are the standard plastic reels that come with Paterson tanks. Not sure what you mean by wetting agent? Could you provide some examples? I'm still new to developing, so I do have trouble getting the film to load properly sometimes. I just checked my reels and there is some black debris near the bearings, which I assume is from the scratching issue.

 

[izman02]

I don't want to sound too doltish...

But could the source be a film rail in the camera?

or something else camera related?

IIRC this has happened on 2 of 4 rolls?

To me it appears like a scratching thing....

I don't think it's the camera since it's happened to rolls shot through two different cameras.

 

[izman02]

Maybe but unlikely. It is very, very, very common to see these sort of scratches on film developed in plastic reels where the ball bearings are jammed or the catch mechanism has no give in it, and/or where the film is pulled out of the reels or otherwise scraped out of the reels by bending the film across its short dimension rather than being unravelled, having the reels taken apart, or another approach where the film is not bent along its short dimension.

Marty

It definitely could also be from when the film is pulled out of the reels since I've felt resistance at times. I'll have to pay closer attention to how the film looks before I remove it from the reel. How common is it that new reels are faulty, such as the bearings or catch mechanism?

 

[retinax]

It definitely could also be from when the film is pulled out of the reels since I've felt resistance at times. I'll have to pay closer attention to how the film looks before I remove it from the reel. How common is it that new reels are faulty, such as the bearings or catch mechanism?

"Pulled out from the reels"? Sounds like what Marty described above. You need to take the two halves of the reel apart to remove the film.

 

[rfaspen]

Yeah. Seen this before with those plastic Patterson style reels. Its either a burr in plastic, or stuck bearing, or the bearing has a burr on it. I see more of this kind of thing with declining quality control in modern products, but it has been happening to some degree since the very beginning....

Are you getting the scratch from both reels or just one? Being a new product, perhaps warranty applies?

Nice that the images are untouched. I suppose that unless the margins are important to you (and for some folks, they are) you could continue to use the reel.

 

[Borge H]

I agree with Marty. There is no need to pull the film out of the reel by force. Just separete the two wheels by removing the lock nut.



I do this in the last rinse water and add two or three drops of mild hand wash or photo-flo before hanging the film. The film is now very sensitive to scratches.



TS scratches must come from the locking metal ball in the reel. If you open the reel you will not scratch the film.


Never try to remove water droplets from the hanging film with some kind of tool or your fingers. You will scratch the film if you have some sand in the water, which I have in my water well. With the Photo-Flo or some hand wash droplets, the water will run off and you will get no dry stains on the film.


If you have dry stains you can remove them from the dry film with a very small amount of pure alcohol on a cotton wab on the blank back side of the film.


Check also your rinsing method. I rinse in running cold water about 45 minutes or if I have enough water at room temperature I use the Ilford rinse method.