monk3ym4jik
Film Noob
Hey all,
I haven't posted much, but I often read the threads on this forum. I might even blame you guys for subliminally persuading me to get a Leica M6... then a M9... then a M3... hm... I wonder if I should start saving for the M10... or maybe more lenses...
In any case, I digress. I just started bulk rolling film and picked up an old Lloyd bulk roller off eBay. Bonus, the loader came about half full (or more) of Kodak Tri-X which, sadly, expired 11/15/2000.
My question is this: if after I run my test shots, the film is too old to shoot and I have to get another roll, what would you all suggest? I'm looking to get about 100' roll as economically as possible.
I tend to gravitate towards high contrast images. I love Tri-X, but its pricey.
Options I have considered (in no particular order):
1. Ilford HP5 (my usual these days before buying this bulk loader)
2. Kodak Tri-X (despite the price, I still love the look of Tri-X on my M3)
3. Ultrafine Xtreme 400/Kentmere 400 (budget option; I hear these two are the same?)
4. Eastman Double X (Experimental, I've never shot cinema film and I loved the look in Schindler's List and the opening to Casino Royale, both allegedly shot with this film)
The only developer I currently have is X-Tol. I'm looking to buy a bottle of HC-110 or rodinal pretty soon.
Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!
I haven't posted much, but I often read the threads on this forum. I might even blame you guys for subliminally persuading me to get a Leica M6... then a M9... then a M3... hm... I wonder if I should start saving for the M10... or maybe more lenses...
In any case, I digress. I just started bulk rolling film and picked up an old Lloyd bulk roller off eBay. Bonus, the loader came about half full (or more) of Kodak Tri-X which, sadly, expired 11/15/2000.
My question is this: if after I run my test shots, the film is too old to shoot and I have to get another roll, what would you all suggest? I'm looking to get about 100' roll as economically as possible.
I tend to gravitate towards high contrast images. I love Tri-X, but its pricey.
Options I have considered (in no particular order):
1. Ilford HP5 (my usual these days before buying this bulk loader)
2. Kodak Tri-X (despite the price, I still love the look of Tri-X on my M3)
3. Ultrafine Xtreme 400/Kentmere 400 (budget option; I hear these two are the same?)
4. Eastman Double X (Experimental, I've never shot cinema film and I loved the look in Schindler's List and the opening to Casino Royale, both allegedly shot with this film)
The only developer I currently have is X-Tol. I'm looking to buy a bottle of HC-110 or rodinal pretty soon.
Any advice is welcome. Thanks in advance!
Pentode
Well-known
I'm in a similar position to yours; I'm about to start bulk loading as well.
In my case, it was prompted by my desire to try cine film, and my wife buying me a 100' roll of Orwo UN54.
Orwo also makes an iso400 film, N74+, which seems to have a lot of fans and runs much cheaper than Tri-X if purchased direct. This could be something you'd like. Images I've seen online suggest that it's fairly contrasty and the tonality, to me, looks a little like older Tri-X.
You might also check out Fomapan 400, although what I've read online seems to paint it as a " love it or hate it" kind of film.
Personally, I'm interested in trying Double XX, but I don't expect it to be a substitute for Tri-X.
In my case, it was prompted by my desire to try cine film, and my wife buying me a 100' roll of Orwo UN54.
Orwo also makes an iso400 film, N74+, which seems to have a lot of fans and runs much cheaper than Tri-X if purchased direct. This could be something you'd like. Images I've seen online suggest that it's fairly contrasty and the tonality, to me, looks a little like older Tri-X.
You might also check out Fomapan 400, although what I've read online seems to paint it as a " love it or hate it" kind of film.
Personally, I'm interested in trying Double XX, but I don't expect it to be a substitute for Tri-X.
trip-xa
Established
Welcome to the world of bulk rolling. I love it and it's really a great way to save a bit of money, except, as you noted, on Tri-x which currently costs more in hundred footers than it does in 36 exposure rolls. First, don't get hung up on expiration dates. Everybody shoots old film and the results can range from no difference from current film, to fun and exciting results. Double X is great as are the ORWO films and they can both be easily developed in what you have. I have tried to simplify down to D76 and Diafine, but have others too. Fun to experiment. Also, last point, get some ISO 100 film. The Kentmere 100 is very nice and cheap.
Ronald M
Veteran
Little to no advantage to rolling your own as the price of 100 feet is close to price of 18 rolls store bought. You get 18 rolls of 36 per 100 feet.
Check Ilfords price.
Why change developer. State what you expect from the change. The two offer nothing over Xtol which can be used at various dilutions for fine grain to sharper and more grainy.
And you can always shoot a partial roll and cut off the exposed section in the dark.
Do not base any tests on results from 15+ year old film. They are probably going to be garbage. Pull the film out and clean the loader.
Just looked at B & h, 5.19 per 36 exp roll,, 63 for 100 feet = $30 saving on film but you have to buy cassette.
TRi x 4.95 for 36 exp $128 for 100 feet This makes no sense at all unless you wish to load Leica cassette and normally do not use a loader for that. $38 LOSS
Check Ilfords price.
Why change developer. State what you expect from the change. The two offer nothing over Xtol which can be used at various dilutions for fine grain to sharper and more grainy.
And you can always shoot a partial roll and cut off the exposed section in the dark.
Do not base any tests on results from 15+ year old film. They are probably going to be garbage. Pull the film out and clean the loader.
Just looked at B & h, 5.19 per 36 exp roll,, 63 for 100 feet = $30 saving on film but you have to buy cassette.
TRi x 4.95 for 36 exp $128 for 100 feet This makes no sense at all unless you wish to load Leica cassette and normally do not use a loader for that. $38 LOSS
znapper
Well-known
Two cents from everyone huh?
nice "get rich quick" scheme ^^
Before you get yourself a M10, you need to get yourself a IIIF or IIIG, gotto have that Barnak and a collapsible
As for bulk, hard to tell.
I have various bulk-rolls, the cheapest is definately Polypan, but that is 50ISO and looks like 200 ISO =)
Then there's Fomapan 100. But I find it a bit low resolution and a bit too much grain in 35mm, love in 120. (I use mine mostly for tests in 35mm).
If I was to buy bulk today, I would go for FP4+ or TMax 100, for 400 bulk, I use Tri-X.
I also have color-bulk, Vision3 left overs, sourced from movie-recording activity (this is known as 'cinestill' these days, I have 50 and 800 iso). Makes everything super-cheap, but you need to use color-dev and the film actually should be develop in ECN-2 and not C-41, and you need to mess with the remjet-layer, however, I've found C-41 to work well for scanning.
Blog-entry here: http://helino-photo.blogspot.no/2016/11/kodak-vision3-cinestill.html
I have bought others as well (EFKE, before they went bust) and Plus-x from eBay.
nice "get rich quick" scheme ^^
Before you get yourself a M10, you need to get yourself a IIIF or IIIG, gotto have that Barnak and a collapsible
As for bulk, hard to tell.
I have various bulk-rolls, the cheapest is definately Polypan, but that is 50ISO and looks like 200 ISO =)
Then there's Fomapan 100. But I find it a bit low resolution and a bit too much grain in 35mm, love in 120. (I use mine mostly for tests in 35mm).
If I was to buy bulk today, I would go for FP4+ or TMax 100, for 400 bulk, I use Tri-X.
I also have color-bulk, Vision3 left overs, sourced from movie-recording activity (this is known as 'cinestill' these days, I have 50 and 800 iso). Makes everything super-cheap, but you need to use color-dev and the film actually should be develop in ECN-2 and not C-41, and you need to mess with the remjet-layer, however, I've found C-41 to work well for scanning.
Blog-entry here: http://helino-photo.blogspot.no/2016/11/kodak-vision3-cinestill.html
I have bought others as well (EFKE, before they went bust) and Plus-x from eBay.
Mackinaw
Think Different
I’ve been bulk loading for years. Right now I have loaders filled with Efke 25, Plus-X, Eastman 5222-XX and Tri-X. I love being able to roll any length of film whenever I want.
Jim B.
Jim B.
Emile de Leon
Well-known
I remember when I could get Tech pan or Pan F in long bulk rolls...really saved some bux back then..I think Pan F was 2 to 3 cents per shot only...today...well...
monk3ym4jik
Film Noob
Thanks for the quick responses guys.
@znapper: You caught me. I was hoping I could get the funding for that M10 rolling a bit early
@Ronald M: I'm aware of the drastic price difference in bulk ilford HP5 and Tri-X. And as I stated, HP5 is my main film, so I really have no issue with buying a 100' roll of that and just going to town. As for the developer, I'm keeping my Xtol, but I was thinking about adding HC-110 or Rodinal so I could experiment with stand development. Those two seem to be the the most common ones. I really appreciate the advice with the expired film. I've heard there are issues with older film, and I loaded up a 10 frame roll to do some bracketing to see if its still any good. If not, I'll be getting a new roll. That's why I wrote the post in the first place.
@All: Thanks for the suggestions guys. I've actually never heard of ORWO films. As for 100 speed films, I'll definitely look into it. I learned film photography shooting 400 speed film, so I'm just more comfortable with it, but nothing ventured, nothing gained? Guess it's time to do more research...
@znapper: You caught me. I was hoping I could get the funding for that M10 rolling a bit early
@Ronald M: I'm aware of the drastic price difference in bulk ilford HP5 and Tri-X. And as I stated, HP5 is my main film, so I really have no issue with buying a 100' roll of that and just going to town. As for the developer, I'm keeping my Xtol, but I was thinking about adding HC-110 or Rodinal so I could experiment with stand development. Those two seem to be the the most common ones. I really appreciate the advice with the expired film. I've heard there are issues with older film, and I loaded up a 10 frame roll to do some bracketing to see if its still any good. If not, I'll be getting a new roll. That's why I wrote the post in the first place.
@All: Thanks for the suggestions guys. I've actually never heard of ORWO films. As for 100 speed films, I'll definitely look into it. I learned film photography shooting 400 speed film, so I'm just more comfortable with it, but nothing ventured, nothing gained? Guess it's time to do more research...
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
1. Has absolutely best performance among others and very reasonable price.
Use contrast filters or push @1600 to get more contrast. Printing with contrast filters will do as well and post processing of scans is very easy to add as much contrast as you need.
2. Waste of money, IMO.
3. Used to be much more cheaper comparing to #1, but now the difference isn't significant if you will use four or less bulks per year. But pricing is different for different regions. It is not HP5+ by all means. IMO, it is great ISO 200/400 day light film if you want to print from it in the darkroom. This film is nowhere near to HP5+ @1200-1600.
4. Even more waste of money comparing to #2. This film is absolutely nothing special at all. IMO.
XTOL will do nicely. HC-110 is great as well. Much more easy to deal with comparing to XTOL. Rodinal is waste of money for any of four films you have in your list. Rodinal is old formula for slow films. Great for ISO 100 or less films.
Use contrast filters or push @1600 to get more contrast. Printing with contrast filters will do as well and post processing of scans is very easy to add as much contrast as you need.
2. Waste of money, IMO.
3. Used to be much more cheaper comparing to #1, but now the difference isn't significant if you will use four or less bulks per year. But pricing is different for different regions. It is not HP5+ by all means. IMO, it is great ISO 200/400 day light film if you want to print from it in the darkroom. This film is nowhere near to HP5+ @1200-1600.
4. Even more waste of money comparing to #2. This film is absolutely nothing special at all. IMO.
XTOL will do nicely. HC-110 is great as well. Much more easy to deal with comparing to XTOL. Rodinal is waste of money for any of four films you have in your list. Rodinal is old formula for slow films. Great for ISO 100 or less films.
ChrisLivsey
Veteran
The cost will vary where you are geographically, in the UK Tri-X bulk is a total joke on price.
Nothing wrong with Kentmere 400 as a budget option above with HC110 1:50 11mins Semi stand.
Having said that I have a soft spot for ORWO N74, this was the burger queue from central casting, full diversity, developer as above.
narsuitus
Well-known
What M-mount lenses do you have now?
monk3ym4jik
Film Noob
I just have two right now, a 50mm pre-ASPH Summilux and a 35mm Summicron V4.
B-9
Devin Bro
Ultrafine 400 (Kentmere) is a great bargain.
Grab a roll and get to spooling!
Grab a roll and get to spooling!
Bill Clark
Veteran
I have doubts about Ultrafine being made by Kentmere/Ilford.
Kenmore bulk comes in a cardboard box and labeled like Ilford and has a center piece that fits on the shaft of my Lloyds bulk loader. Inside the Kentmere box the bulk roll is wrapped like Ilford film.
The Ultrafine bulk I have is in a plastic box with nothing in the center. The film has a gap/hole in the center to fit on the shaft of my bulk loader. They left off where the film was made. Could be from one place then the next batch from someplace else?
The Ultrafine box makes a nice coaster for my glass of wine!
I'd buy Kentmere for price and Ilford for Ilford quality.
I buy bulk for a couple of reasons. One I consider important is consistency with each bulk roll. Maybe not as big of a deal with black & white. I also like the ability to roll what ever number of exposures per cassette.
Kenmore bulk comes in a cardboard box and labeled like Ilford and has a center piece that fits on the shaft of my Lloyds bulk loader. Inside the Kentmere box the bulk roll is wrapped like Ilford film.
The Ultrafine bulk I have is in a plastic box with nothing in the center. The film has a gap/hole in the center to fit on the shaft of my bulk loader. They left off where the film was made. Could be from one place then the next batch from someplace else?
The Ultrafine box makes a nice coaster for my glass of wine!
I'd buy Kentmere for price and Ilford for Ilford quality.
I buy bulk for a couple of reasons. One I consider important is consistency with each bulk roll. Maybe not as big of a deal with black & white. I also like the ability to roll what ever number of exposures per cassette.
Nokton48
Veteran
If you like XX film (yes it is all that), to bulk load (the TomA method; RIP) is pull a stretched-out arm's length of XX from the 400" roll, tape it on to a Kodak Snap Cap or one of the old Ilford spools, and roll it up. Al Kaplan used to rip the roll apart with his teeth. Of course you have to do this in the dark, but what can go wrong?
Actually this works very well. 400' XX on a flat surface, masking tape, snap together cartridges, scissors in back pocket, and a light tight place to load.
dufffader
Leicanaut/Nikonaut...
Its very unlikely I'd be able to find a lighttight space big enough to pull a 6 footer length of film, so I prefer the method I first read on this site:
http://www.ishupatel.com/PHOTOGRAPHY/My-Time-with-Henri-Cartier-Bresson/1/caption
Light tight bag, and for me 36-37 turns on the film spool will get me 36 frames give or take. And that article captured the amount of focus you need when loading film this way. When you lose count it sucks to have to restart all over again. But another way to double check if its 26 or 36 turns is to feel the amount of film on the spool. All experience.
Back to the OP, I suggest that you standardize on one type of film and developer and adjust accordingly to your taste. I'd love to continue with Tri-X and as everyone said, the new price on 100' is just nuts. I like the flexibility of 400 speed film, so I went next best film that I know and stuck to Eastman XX. I've got 1200 feet of it in my freezer for doomsday. ISO 250 is a good all round speed. Once you standardize on the film, you can start looking into 400' reel which is even more economical. I don't pay much attention to the expiry date. I think we all agree B&W film still looks pretty well past expiry - one idea is to test develop a few frames and adjust developing times in case you see some fading. But I dont remember having to do that for film expiring in the last century (only tried 1990s).
Good luck and welcome to the club.
http://www.ishupatel.com/PHOTOGRAPHY/My-Time-with-Henri-Cartier-Bresson/1/caption
Light tight bag, and for me 36-37 turns on the film spool will get me 36 frames give or take. And that article captured the amount of focus you need when loading film this way. When you lose count it sucks to have to restart all over again. But another way to double check if its 26 or 36 turns is to feel the amount of film on the spool. All experience.
Back to the OP, I suggest that you standardize on one type of film and developer and adjust accordingly to your taste. I'd love to continue with Tri-X and as everyone said, the new price on 100' is just nuts. I like the flexibility of 400 speed film, so I went next best film that I know and stuck to Eastman XX. I've got 1200 feet of it in my freezer for doomsday. ISO 250 is a good all round speed. Once you standardize on the film, you can start looking into 400' reel which is even more economical. I don't pay much attention to the expiry date. I think we all agree B&W film still looks pretty well past expiry - one idea is to test develop a few frames and adjust developing times in case you see some fading. But I dont remember having to do that for film expiring in the last century (only tried 1990s).
Good luck and welcome to the club.
If you like XX film (yes it is all that), to bulk load (the TomA method; RIP) is pull a stretched-out arm's length of XX from the 400" roll, tape it on to a Kodak Snap Cap or one of the old Ilford spools, and roll it up. Al Kaplan used to rip the roll apart with his teeth. Of course you have to do this in the dark, but what can go wrong?
Actually this works very well. 400' XX on a flat surface, masking tape, snap together cartridges, scissors in back pocket, and a light tight place to load.
JustPlainBill
Established
Hi,
Welcome to bulk film loading. if you don't already have a few brass Leica cassettes, you should get a few whenever you can get them cheaply. Next best are plastic cassettes with screw tops. A nice thing about the Leica M2(my favorite), and the M3 is you don't have to bother cutting a leader - just cut the end you're going to fit in the takeup spool off square. I bought a 105mm f2.5 Nikkor in Leica screw mount many years ago as a long lens for my screwmount Leica and added the Leitz bayonet adapter when I upgraded to Leica Ms. It's well worth carrying around when I need a long lens on a rangefinder camera. Good luck, have fun, and fill you Leica full of pictures.
JustPlainBill
Welcome to bulk film loading. if you don't already have a few brass Leica cassettes, you should get a few whenever you can get them cheaply. Next best are plastic cassettes with screw tops. A nice thing about the Leica M2(my favorite), and the M3 is you don't have to bother cutting a leader - just cut the end you're going to fit in the takeup spool off square. I bought a 105mm f2.5 Nikkor in Leica screw mount many years ago as a long lens for my screwmount Leica and added the Leitz bayonet adapter when I upgraded to Leica Ms. It's well worth carrying around when I need a long lens on a rangefinder camera. Good luck, have fun, and fill you Leica full of pictures.
JustPlainBill
kb244
Well-known
Seems to be pointless when the bulk rolls cost more than the pre-made roll. I would have used my tri-x bulk I inherited, but seems like someone shot up the whole roll when I noticed frames of an event on it in a strip test to see if it was still ok.
I too love Tri-X but if it cost more in 100 feet than 36ct rolls... I'll stick with the rolls.
I too love Tri-X but if it cost more in 100 feet than 36ct rolls... I'll stick with the rolls.
ChrisPlatt
Thread Killer
Yes, at current prices Tri-X factory loaded individual rolls are actually cheaper than the 100' bulk spool.
Way to go, Kodak...
Chris
Way to go, Kodak...
Chris
dufffader
Leicanaut/Nikonaut...
Hmm....
I've been cutting a leader since I've started bulk loading, and always wondered what it brings to the M2/M3. How it was that the answer was "nothing".
Not having a leader will also save me having to cut off the leader when loading the reel.
Thanks for that tip...
I've been cutting a leader since I've started bulk loading, and always wondered what it brings to the M2/M3. How it was that the answer was "nothing".
Not having a leader will also save me having to cut off the leader when loading the reel.
Thanks for that tip...