gabefredrick
Neutiquam erro
Agfa Isolette III vs. ZEISS IKON SUPER IKONTA
I'm itching to get an old medium format folder. I've found quite a few but am wondering if there was a general consensus about which of the above mentioned cameras was best? Or, if there is another old medium format folder out there that is better than both of them? I'm just looking for a shooter with a great lens and a reliable range finder.
Feedback always appreciated?
Thanks
Gabe
I'm itching to get an old medium format folder. I've found quite a few but am wondering if there was a general consensus about which of the above mentioned cameras was best? Or, if there is another old medium format folder out there that is better than both of them? I'm just looking for a shooter with a great lens and a reliable range finder.
Feedback always appreciated?
Thanks
Gabe
Topdog1
Well-known
I have them both, but haven't had a chance to try them out with film. I seem to be mostly in GAS mode right now. Just from a visual and handling point of view, the Zeiss Ikonta seems the far cooler of the two. Here's the one I bought here:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200042169594&rd=1&rd=1
Regards,
Ira
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=010&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=200042169594&rd=1&rd=1
Regards,
Ira
pesphoto
Veteran
Check oout this site. Jurgen just CLA'd my Isolette: http://www.certo6.com/
VictorM.
Well-known
When buying an old camera, condition is everything. And don't overlook the Iskra for 6X6.
jano
Evil Bokeh
second the iskra 
ZeissFan
Veteran
It depends on which Super Ikonta you mean. The A, B or C. And if the B, is it a Mess Ikonta or a Super Ikonta BX or III or IV?
Regarding the Agfa Isolette III, it uses an uncoupled rangefinder. You focus by wheel, read the distance from the wheel and then set the lens to that distance.
Most have the triplet Apotar (decent but not great when shot wide open), while the better lens is the Solinar (Tessar design).
Weakness of the Isolette (and any Agfa camera) are holes in the plastic bellows and that lubricant that has turned into lens cement.
The weak points of the Super Ikonta is a need to be serviced to clean the viewfinder and clean and lubricate the focusing mechanism. Most Super Ikontas will have the Tessar lens, while the III and IV are sometimes found with the triplet Novar (again, good but not great when shot wide open).
All things being equal, an Isolette III with a Solinar should give better shots than a Super Ikonta III with a Novar.
The Super Ikonta with a Tessar is a great camera. The Super Ikonta B 532/16 is a heavy camera and the BX 533/16 even bigger.
Almost any camera that you buy will need to be serviced unless it already has been serviced.
Regarding the Agfa Isolette III, it uses an uncoupled rangefinder. You focus by wheel, read the distance from the wheel and then set the lens to that distance.
Most have the triplet Apotar (decent but not great when shot wide open), while the better lens is the Solinar (Tessar design).
Weakness of the Isolette (and any Agfa camera) are holes in the plastic bellows and that lubricant that has turned into lens cement.
The weak points of the Super Ikonta is a need to be serviced to clean the viewfinder and clean and lubricate the focusing mechanism. Most Super Ikontas will have the Tessar lens, while the III and IV are sometimes found with the triplet Novar (again, good but not great when shot wide open).
All things being equal, an Isolette III with a Solinar should give better shots than a Super Ikonta III with a Novar.
The Super Ikonta with a Tessar is a great camera. The Super Ikonta B 532/16 is a heavy camera and the BX 533/16 even bigger.
Almost any camera that you buy will need to be serviced unless it already has been serviced.
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Gabe,
Optically, the best folding camera is the Voiglander Bessa II with a Color Heliar or Apo Lanthar lens but the front standard is not very sturdy and they sell for very high prices.
Super Ikontas are better constructed than other folding cameras and they also command high prices, though they are somewhat less expensive than the Bessa II. If you want to get a Zeiss quality folding camera with a late coated Tessar lens without taking a second mortgage, look for a Mess Ikonta, either a 524/2 (6x9) or a 524/16 (6x6). These cameras are as sturdy as Super Ikontas, they have the same lenses (3 element Novar or 4 element Opton Tessar) and shutters (Prontor or Synchro Compur). The are smaller than most Super Ikonta models. What makes them sell for cheap is the fact that the rangefinder is not coupled. You have to focus with the rangefinder, read the measure on a scale and then set the lens accordingly. It slows down your shooting a bit, but you won't be able to shoot fast with most Super Ikontas (all the 6x9 models) neither, because they have a separate rangefinder window, which requires you to first set the distance, before composing your picture with the viewfinder.
I just bought on eBay a recently CLAed 6x6 Mess Ikonta with a coated Opton Tessar lens for less than $100. That's less than the price of a Moskva or Iskra camera, if you add the cost of the shipment + CLA. You should be able to get a 6x9 524/2 Mess Ikonta with a coated Tessar lens for around $200.
Cheers,
Abbazz
Optically, the best folding camera is the Voiglander Bessa II with a Color Heliar or Apo Lanthar lens but the front standard is not very sturdy and they sell for very high prices.
Super Ikontas are better constructed than other folding cameras and they also command high prices, though they are somewhat less expensive than the Bessa II. If you want to get a Zeiss quality folding camera with a late coated Tessar lens without taking a second mortgage, look for a Mess Ikonta, either a 524/2 (6x9) or a 524/16 (6x6). These cameras are as sturdy as Super Ikontas, they have the same lenses (3 element Novar or 4 element Opton Tessar) and shutters (Prontor or Synchro Compur). The are smaller than most Super Ikonta models. What makes them sell for cheap is the fact that the rangefinder is not coupled. You have to focus with the rangefinder, read the measure on a scale and then set the lens accordingly. It slows down your shooting a bit, but you won't be able to shoot fast with most Super Ikontas (all the 6x9 models) neither, because they have a separate rangefinder window, which requires you to first set the distance, before composing your picture with the viewfinder.
I just bought on eBay a recently CLAed 6x6 Mess Ikonta with a coated Opton Tessar lens for less than $100. That's less than the price of a Moskva or Iskra camera, if you add the cost of the shipment + CLA. You should be able to get a 6x9 524/2 Mess Ikonta with a coated Tessar lens for around $200.
Cheers,
Abbazz
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Let me add to add to Zeiss Fan's comments, but first another vote for the Iskra.
The first version of the Isolette III had the notorious Agfa bellows, that if not already replaced, they need to be. The best lens shutter combination for the first version of the Isolette III was a 85mm/4.5 Solinar/Synchro Combination. The 85mm Solinar isn't as sharp as the lens that replaced it. The Solinar is a Tessar design.
I have a photo of the first version at the top of this web page. Pay attention to the winding knob and depth of field scale at the top of the camera.
My recommendation when comes to Agfas is to stick with the second version of the Isolette III, which I'll call the second series.
Agfa bellows improved with the second series of Isolette III cameras. The second series Isolette III also is available with the better 75mm/3.5 Solinar. The second series Isolette II and III is easily identified by their milled winder and film reminder knobs. The dept of field scale has been moved to the lens.
Be aware that in addition to the uncouple RF, you must wind the film by using a ruby window when using an Isolette III. Put the two together and you have a slow shooting camera that is difficult to wind film with in dim light.
The Agfa Super Isolette, its Soviet cppy the Iskra, Zeiss-Ikon's Super Ikonta III and IV' are much better shooters for modern photographers. All four have coupled rangefinders and automatic stops with regards to film winding. Both the Super Isolette and the Iskra have unit focusing, which improves sharpness close in, 3 to 6 feet.
The Iskra has the best viewfinder of this group of old school European folders. While the Iskra isn't as well executed as the original Agfa Super Isolette or the Super Ikontas, it is no slouch image wise. If you get an Iskra, do buy from a reputable dealer like Fedka that allows for easy returns.
The first version of the Isolette III had the notorious Agfa bellows, that if not already replaced, they need to be. The best lens shutter combination for the first version of the Isolette III was a 85mm/4.5 Solinar/Synchro Combination. The 85mm Solinar isn't as sharp as the lens that replaced it. The Solinar is a Tessar design.
I have a photo of the first version at the top of this web page. Pay attention to the winding knob and depth of field scale at the top of the camera.
My recommendation when comes to Agfas is to stick with the second version of the Isolette III, which I'll call the second series.
Agfa bellows improved with the second series of Isolette III cameras. The second series Isolette III also is available with the better 75mm/3.5 Solinar. The second series Isolette II and III is easily identified by their milled winder and film reminder knobs. The dept of field scale has been moved to the lens.
Be aware that in addition to the uncouple RF, you must wind the film by using a ruby window when using an Isolette III. Put the two together and you have a slow shooting camera that is difficult to wind film with in dim light.
The Agfa Super Isolette, its Soviet cppy the Iskra, Zeiss-Ikon's Super Ikonta III and IV' are much better shooters for modern photographers. All four have coupled rangefinders and automatic stops with regards to film winding. Both the Super Isolette and the Iskra have unit focusing, which improves sharpness close in, 3 to 6 feet.
The Iskra has the best viewfinder of this group of old school European folders. While the Iskra isn't as well executed as the original Agfa Super Isolette or the Super Ikontas, it is no slouch image wise. If you get an Iskra, do buy from a reputable dealer like Fedka that allows for easy returns.
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gabefredrick
Neutiquam erro
Wow. Thanks for all your input. I'll do some more price comparison and research but you definitely put me on the right track.
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
There's an oddball folding 6x6 rangefinder, not very often offered for sale but still popping up oince in a while. It's Mamiya 6 (NOT the new one, obviously). It has an excellent zuiko lens and a focusing mechanism that moves the film plane instead of the lens, this allows for a sturdier construction. One day i will get one for myself...
Right now i have a super ikonta III with a Novar anastigmat triplet lens. Indeed, opened to f/3.5 it has a noticeable decrease of sharpness as well as light falloff in the corners. However, at mid-range apertures it is able to produce extremely good photos with tridimensional effects I have never seen from any other camera I ever used. And it fits in my coat pocket.
Right now i have a super ikonta III with a Novar anastigmat triplet lens. Indeed, opened to f/3.5 it has a noticeable decrease of sharpness as well as light falloff in the corners. However, at mid-range apertures it is able to produce extremely good photos with tridimensional effects I have never seen from any other camera I ever used. And it fits in my coat pocket.
jano
Evil Bokeh
I'd like a mamiya 6 as well, but clean ones seem to be rare
gabefredrick
Neutiquam erro
Specifically I'm looking at the following two cameras:
Agfa Isolette III
Ziess-Ikon Super Ikonta 532/16
Different cameras, I know but wondering which would product better shots wide open and would take generally, better pictures?
Agfa Isolette III
Ziess-Ikon Super Ikonta 532/16
Different cameras, I know but wondering which would product better shots wide open and would take generally, better pictures?
beethamd
Unix-like
Did you buy either the Agfa or Super Ikonta?
I've just run a roll of Delta 400 through an Ikon I bought yesterday. It doesn't have a Tessar lens but the images are fairly good.
If anyone has a spare Mess Ikonta with a Tessar they want to sell - let me know...
I've just run a roll of Delta 400 through an Ikon I bought yesterday. It doesn't have a Tessar lens but the images are fairly good.
If anyone has a spare Mess Ikonta with a Tessar they want to sell - let me know...
Pherdinand
the snow must go on
I also got a SI with a novar anastigmat...
Indeed, the lens is not a stellar performer sharpness-wise, wide open the corners are funky blurred, but at around f5.6 it has a magical 3D effect.
Indeed, the lens is not a stellar performer sharpness-wise, wide open the corners are funky blurred, but at around f5.6 it has a magical 3D effect.
beethamd
Unix-like
I think the lens on mine is the Nettar. That's not as good as a Novar is it?