Alternative for Leica M9/M? Sony A7/A7r?

Yes, if optical finders are unimportant for your modus operandi.

And, right now there are conflicting reports of how well the SONYs work with adapted lenses having focal lengths below ~ 35 mm. Eventually there we will know more. It seems likely there will be three categories. Lenses that are unacceptable, lenses that are acceptable with post-processing solutions and those that just work well.
 
I have an M9 and I've handled the A7 now.

Sorry, but for me the A7 is not an alternative to an M9 at all. Totally different kind of camera, very different feel and imaging qualities, and I'm not convinced that it is really all that good a platform to use M-mount lenses on (certainly not the short focal lengths). I'd buy an A7 or A7r to use with SLR (Leica R and Nikkor) lenses, or to use with its 'designed for' lens line from Sony/Zeiss.

And I'll keep my M9. After all, if I just sell two or three unused Leica lenses, I can buy the A7r and have both, with lenses and to spare for either. :)

G
 
Platinum RF said:
Can Sony be the alternative solution for Leica M9/M?
Click to expand...

That depends on what kind of viewing you want. If you want a coupled-coincident rangefinder digital camera system that is also compatible with similar film bodies, then no. If all you're looking for is a box with a sensor and you don't care what kind of focusing system you use, and you don't care about similarity of operation with film bodies, then any of the mirrorless cameras will work. You just have to decide what features you want in one.
 
It seems like the A7 is being compared to every camera under the sun these days. People are comparing it to DSLR's like the new Nikon Dƒ, and Fuji X's, and now Leica.

I think the Sony will be great for people that want to invest in Sony's new lens system, but be aware Sony has a thing with coming out with new mounts every couple of years and then letting them peter out.

Also there's not doubt in my mind that the short flange distance is going to cause color shifts and the lenses are going to need to be coded like the Leica, but it's going to be done in-camera and only with Sony lenses.

Also if you're looking for a small system, the A7 body is small, but the lenses are big, which makes the camera awkward to use. Even the 28-70 f/3.5-5.6 is a big lens on that body. You'd be better off buying a D610 and a kit lens in my opinion.

I think everyone is excited for the Sony because it's a full-frame point and shoot. My personal opinion is that jamming a full-size sensor in a point and shoot body is pointless because full-frame lenses that require focus motors are still quite large.

If it were me I'd buy a Fuji XE-2 over the A7 as an Leica replacement. The lens line is developed, the IQ is great, and it's a truly compact camera and even the zooms are faster than the Sony zooms.
 
I have the same question as the OP. I handled the A7(R) with a 35 Summicron and it wasn't bad at all. Not a rangefinder feel and the M240 I compared it with was certainly nicer but if you compare price and image quality it deserves a good look I think. If you think it might be interesting try to handle one yourself. I'm waiting for some more test with M-glass and want to see how the camera performs with Leica lenses. My own test with pre production Sony A7(r) was encouraging but not definite.

I have a M8.2 with coffeestain and need to decide what to do. For less than what I have to pay for a ME can get this body to use with my M lenses..

The rangefinder feel is so great but if I get that fix with my M5/M6 and have this 24/26 MP...
 
I think for small size bodies micro four thirds is the best compromise. Lenses (including zooms) can be reasonably compact and still have a wide opening aperture. APS-C good if you are shooting predominantly with primes.

To get the most out of the sensor in the A7r, you really need to be using a tripod. I'm sure it will give good results hand held, but you won't be tapping its full potential.

If I am looking for a 36Mb digital back for a Nikon 24-70mm 2.8 , I would choose a D800. With the size of that lens, savings in body size are irrelevant.

Something like a full frame optimised Ricoh A12 M mount would be interesting.
 
Roel said:
I have a M8.2 with coffeestain and need to decide what to do. For less than what I have to pay for a ME can get this body to use with my M lenses..
Click to expand...

I have a coffeestain M8. For me, I can't justify the ME upgrade price.
I choose just to ignore the mark on the LCD, which isn't hard to do.
With a bit of perseverance I have got used to the crop factor. My widest lens is a 21mm (so ~28mm on the M8), if I want to shoot wider I choose a different camera. I mainly use the M8 with a 28mm lens, which makes a great walk around 35mm equivalent.
 
Ignoring handling and the rangefinder experience etc...

It is premature to call the question of wide angle M lens performance on the A7 let alone the A7r which has seen very little testing of M lenses so far.

What I've seen of the 28 Cron on the A7 looks pretty good actually.

When someone takes a M9, M240, A7, and A7r out into the field and properly shoots a variety of subjects near, medium, and far, all at the same time ... then maybe we can start laying out judgements that mean something.

The foregoing probably won't happen for a while so a bunch of mostly useless speculation mixed with some facts in isolation will fill the void in the meantime.
 
jsrockit said:
Sure, it can be. It makes photos. However I would say to not buy blind. Everything about the A7 is the antithesis of the M9.
Click to expand...

They both have shutter buttons, a full-frame sensor and markings in English, so I wouldn't say everything. I'd say essentially.
 
if the thing that interested you in the m9 was the full frame sensor in a compact body, sure it's an alternative. if you were interested in rangefinders and low light photography, the answer is basically no.
 
Adanac said:
...
It is premature to call the question of wide angle M lens performance on the A7 let alone the A7r which has seen very little testing of M lenses so far.
...
When someone takes a M9, M240, A7, and A7r out into the field and properly shoots a variety of subjects near, medium, and far, all at the same time ... then maybe we can start laying out judgements that mean something.

The foregoing probably won't happen for a while so a bunch of mostly useless speculation mixed with some facts in isolation will fill the void in the meantime.
Click to expand...

Several folks with pre-release A7 and A7r sample units have done extensive research in this direction already, so there are plenty of testing experiences available even now to draw some conclusions from.

Of course, despite some imaging issues, many lenses which don't necessarily produce optimum results still produce nice, interesting images. That fact will not change. But I wouldn't buy an A7/A7r for those nice happenstances. And the user experience is far more important to my interest in these bodies.

G
 
Adanac said:
Ignoring handling and the rangefinder experience etc...

It is premature to call the question of wide angle M lens performance on the A7 let alone the A7r which has seen very little testing of M lenses so far.

What I've seen of the 28 Cron on the A7 looks pretty good actually.

When someone takes a M9, M240, A7, and A7r out into the field and properly shoots a variety of subjects near, medium, and far, all at the same time ... then maybe we can start laying out judgements that mean something.

The foregoing probably won't happen for a while so a bunch of mostly useless speculation mixed with some facts in isolation will fill the void in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Right on the money.
In fact there are very few usable tests with RF glass---and I pay close attention.

I really only care about the A7r- cause that's what I have on order, LOL

It's going to be a picky business under 35mm, but here is the utterly worthless hearsay from images and reports:

cv 12 could work a bit with some crop

cv 15 unclear--color shift for sure.

zm18 reports edges are good at f/8 at least.

cv 21/1.8 may be pretty good.

cv21/4 and all the tiny CVs: fuzzy on the edges.

24/2.8 leica supposedly good

28/2 supposedly sharp across the frame @5.6 Centers are incredible at all apertures.

In fact the centers on everything are way beyond all the Leica Ms at all apertures and ISO performance is very good.

35s: well cv 35/1.2 is supposedly great. Maybe summicrons also.

M-rokkor 40/2 is good.

50s and up should all be good: very good.

That's tonite's "word" ;)
 
i think i can be a nice addition to my beloved m9, shooting things that the m9 is not really that great at (high ISO for example). i will certainly test it when my shop receives some.
 
Platinum RF said:
Can Sony be the alternative solution for Leica M9/M?
Click to expand...

Rangefinders have been in my experience the alternative solution to most everything else. Partly that's because of the unique VF/RF and manual focus M mount lenses, partly that's because RFs are kind of stunted or limited compared to most other system cameras.

I prefer interesting problems, rather than neat solutions. YMMV.
 
noimmunity said:
Rangefinders have been in my experience the alternative solution to most everything else. Partly that's because of the unique VF/RF and manual focus M mount lenses, partly that's because RFs are kind of stunted or limited compared to most other system cameras.

I prefer interesting problems, rather than neat solutions. YMMV.
Click to expand...
Nicely put!

To be cynical, I'd substitute "facile solutions"

Cheers,

R.
 
I think the door is wide open for a new M mount from anyone who wants to step up. The tech is ready for M9 like performance, and I think the Nikon SP is the killer template, except the second finder is one of the great new EVFs.

RF really is still a wonderful shooting method, I shot my M6 alongside the Sony Nex5n today, swapping cron 28, and the cv superspeed 35 and 50s back and forth.

I'm slower with the RF, but I just need more practice.

Good as the new sony looks to be, I'd own both M8 and M9 alongside it if I could. M240, meh. For me, so far, but I've had my mind changed before. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom