An M8 owners impression of the Nex 5n

[eleskin]

As a Leica M8 owner, I am keenly aware of the M8's shortcomings above ISO 640, focus shift issues with some lenses, etc,,,. for me, the Nex 5n seemed to bridge the gap and provide high ISO capability for my Leica M mount lens collection. Upon receiving the Nex last week , I was somewhat dismayed until I turned off the noise reduction from the Sony software package supplied with the camera. I now have Adobe Digital Negative Converter and find this great for converting and using the Nex images. The first impression is how easy it was for me to set up the camera right out of the box without reading the book it came with. i elaborated on this on another thread but let me say I am impressed being an Apple and Leica user. the form factor of the camera is a shortcoming in that some of my lenses (Noctilux f1.0, 35mm Nokton f1.2) make the camera difficult to hold. I have solved this problem by adding the Ownuser battery grip. Yes, I know some of you will be horrified by increasing the size of the Nex 5n, but I wanted the 5n sensor in a larger body and the Nex 7 is a non option given its bad performance with certain Leica M lenses. I may even add a small metal plate on the bottom of the grip to give it even more stability.

I prefer the shutter dial on my M8 and here the Nex is not as good. I actually feel I am faster adjusting my M8 than this camera at times. It is too easy for your finger to slip and get the camera in another mode when taking a shot. You also have to watch the shutter speed. Anything below 1/40 a second risks blur. In some ways, my M8 is more stable in the hand than the Nex. Despite all of this the high ISO is superior to the M8 and M9 and lets face it, this is why I bought the camera. Of all the lenses I have used so far (Noctilux, 35mm Nokton, 35mm Summicron, 50mm Summicron, 40mm nokton, etc,,,) the 35mm f1.2 Nokton performs the best as a low light lens for the NEX 5n. It is massivly flare resistand and sharp at f1.2. The video with this lens is absolutely georgeous! Any Nex users should seriously consider the Voigtlander 35mm Noktom f 1.2 for this camera. It is mind blowing!

Focus peaking is mind blowing to. I love it, plain and simple! Steve Huff suggested red for focus peaking. I have found yellow to be superior in terms of visibility and accuracy.

THe Nex 5n is NOT a replacement for the M8, M9 or any rangefinder. The rangefinder experience (seeing through a viewfinder instead of looking at a surface focusing screen ) is unique and I find many times it is faster than the NEX. At ISO 640 and below, I feel the M8 is better than the NEX in image quality. I also feel the M8 shows better color tone, resolution, especially with lenses like the Noctilux. They just glow more, plain and simple. Above ISO 640, and for video, the Nex 5n rules. It is also better for some situations like hip shooting candids and the use of Leica telephotos. And for video, WOW!!! I love the 35mm Nokton with this thing! I feel like I am making a motion picture!!!!!

 

[BMacW]

You need the get the evf so you can MF faster and hold the camera more steady to get few more stops 😀

 

[kanzlr]

The viewfinder is no replacement for the rangefinder. It is similar (or rather identical) to an SLR (or rather to the Sony SLT cameras of the newest crop).

The good thing is that you can focus stopped down and have no focus shift. And that you can use any 35mm lens ever made because there area adapters for EVERYTHING (QBM, Alpa, Contarex, Exacta,...) and the viewfinder still works.

basically, you can use M lenses on a micro SLR in a way 🙂

I consider the EVF mandatory. It has higher resolution and it is easy to see the focus move, even more so with low focus peaking.

All in all the NEX is much much much more ergonomic to me than the M8 and I already sold the latter. The only good thing about the M8 to me where of course the rangefinder and the hotshoe to trigger my studio flashes 😉

And I am not sure if the 16 MP with its weak AA filter doesn't resolve more fine detail as the 10 MP sans AA filter in the M8.
print an A3+ image and I bet it will have similar detail. 100% crops won't tell you anything 🙂

I must say that adding a camdapter handstrap improved the NEX handling a LOT for me. I will also try one of the nicer halfcases (Ciesta?) and see how much I like that.

All in all, a great experience and my only camera now (Sold D700 and M8, but then, I am no pro. If I don't get the shot, so what).

 

[Janos]

I guess some of us would like to see some of your pictures taken with the VC 35/1.2 - at least I would love to as I considered that lens too. 😀

Although size and weight of this lens are a little difficult.

Cheers,
Janos

 

[uhoh7]

 

[Chyn]

Thank you for the write-up! I'm still wavering between the GRX and the NEX-5n. Your comments about the NEX's handling does give me pause. But the articulating screen, high iso performance and (to a lesser extent) video all makes the little NEX very enticing!

 

[kanzlr]

I'd say NEX-5N if you want that fantastic EVF and like Sonys peaking implementation, GXR for everything else (hotshoe, much better body ergonomics, mature firmware)

 

[Chyn]

I'd say NEX-5N if you want that fantastic EVF and like Sonys peaking implementation, GXR for everything else (hotshoe, much better body ergonomics, mature firmware)

I've read your post on your experience with the GXR on the Ricoh board as well. The GXR with the M-module is very much already a well-tuned and refined product whereas the NEX-5n is relatively immature but has immense potential, not unlike a diamond in the rough. I'm tending towards the NEX at the moment because it could be used to capture fast action with its burst mode, and for macro shots, both areas which my M8 does not cover.

 

[Hatch]

With the generous 24 MP Nex 7 you could argue that the advantage a RF has of being able to look outside the framelines is also implemented.

Just crop the borders after you've taken the shot

You colud even paint some framelines on your sensor 😉

Sadly your crop factor the rises as well. 😎

So we need a MF NEX that we can crop to FF or APS-C 😀

 

[Chyn]

Hatch,

That's a great approach, and it's probably how I will shoot if I choose to go the NEX route: note the scene, compose and adjust composition while framing with LCD or viewfinder, trip shutter, and then crop during post-processing if needed.

I did consider the NEX7 initially, but am no longer for the following reasons:

-color shifts at the edges when using wide-angle lenses like the CV 15/4.5 Heliar
-noise and noise reduction artifacts at high ISOs

Unless Sony fixes these issues in a firmware fix, I'm not planning on going for it.

 

[kanzlr]

I've read your post on your experience with the GXR on the Ricoh board as well. The GXR with the M-module is very much already a well-tuned and refined product whereas the NEX-5n is relatively immature but has immense potential, not unlike a diamond in the rough. I'm tending towards the NEX at the moment because it could be used to capture fast action with its burst mode, and for macro shots, both areas which my M8 does not cover.

the internet is a small village 🙂
The reason I now use the NEX is mostly the EVF and the peaking implementation. If the next generation GXR has these nailed, I will get them for sure. It is not as if these things where that expensive. But for this they would not only need a new EVF, they would also need a new M Module, as the low res magnified readout, etc. is a problem of the old 12MP sensor 🙁

 

[Chyn]

the internet is a small village 🙂
The reason I now use the NEX is mostly the EVF and the peaking implementation. If the next generation GXR has these nailed, I will get them for sure. It is not as if these things where that expensive. But for this they would not only need a new EVF, they would also need a new M Module, as the low res magnified readout, etc. is a problem of the old 12MP sensor 🙁

Small village, indeed! I had thought that the GXR has a similar (peak) focusing method, but perhaps I should go back or wait for Stephen and/or Kristian's comparisons.

The fast obsolescence of the GXR M-module's sensor does concern me somewhat. As far as I know, the sensor on the M-module is related to the same sensor found in the Nikon D300, which is a generation behind that wonderful Sony sensor found in the Nikon D7000/Pentax K5 and now Sony NEX-5n. Having a more advanced sensor to complement my existing M8 still remains the key goal, as I'm looking for something to cover the high iso range, record short video vignettes, and do the occasional macro shot without investing in a new system. With the NEX-5n, I could just slip it in camera bag and not have to bring extra lenses.

 

[Hatch]

I'm still waiting for the Nex &&
My shooting is mostly with modest wide angles if I shoot WA
Most of my WA are SLR.

If I'm not mistaken those have less of a problem on the 7 than with a RF WA.

My RF lenses 50 and 90 mmfit in my coat pockets easily.
I don't even notice them.

So a WA SLR lens isn't going to break the camel's back.
Especially if I mount it and carry the nex on a strap.

i did this during my holidays.
With the camera tucked away to the side it was there when I needed it but otherwise I forgot I was carrying it.

At some point I panicked thinking I'd lost my 90 mm, only to discover it, to my great relief, in an inside coat pocket.

 

[kanzlr]

it doesn't.
The peaking is white which makes it harder to see. The outline mode is ok for focusing, but not so nice for composition, imho.

also, the NEX EVF is THAT high in resolution that you do not really need peaking that much. The GXR EVF is crude in comparison.

also the MF loupe: on the NEX, you zoom in with a button press and it is VERY clear and easy to focus. On the GXR it is an ugly pixel mess and hard to judge focus by.

but afaik it is a matter of sensor read out speed/bandwith. That makes sense, as the Sony NEX Sensor can also record rather high resolution video, thus it can constantly output high res live view also, whereas the GXR M module is low res in live view.

that is THE single reason for not getting the M module.

Small village, indeed! I had thought that the GXR has a similar (peak) focusing method, but perhaps I should go back or wait for Stephen and/or Kristian's comparisons.

The fast obsolescence of the GXR M-module's sensor does concern me somewhat. As far as I know, the sensor on the M-module is related to the same sensor found in the Nikon D300, which is a generation behind that wonderful Sony sensor found in the Nikon D7000/Pentax K5 and now Sony NEX-5n. Having a more advanced sensor to complement my existing M8 still remains the key goal, as I'm looking for something to cover the high iso range, record short video vignettes, and do the occasional macro shot without investing in a new system. With the NEX-5n, I could just slip it in camera bag and not have to bring extra lenses.

 

[Hatch]

it doesn't.
The peaking is white which makes it harder to see. The outline mode is ok for focusing, but not so nice for composition, imho.

also, the NEX EVF is THAT high in resolution that you do not really need peaking that much. The GXR EVF is crude in comparison.

also the MF loupe: on the NEX, you zoom in with a button press and it is VERY clear and easy to focus. On the GXR it is an ugly pixel mess and hard to judge focus by.

but afaik it is a matter of sensor read out speed/bandwith. That makes sense, as the Sony NEX Sensor can also record rather high resolution video, thus it can constantly output high res live view also, whereas the GXR M module is low res in live view.

that is THE single reason for not getting the M module.

Have to concur.

I also prefer lower IQ and being able to nail focus everytime, than higher IQ but hit and miss on getting a sharp picture.

Oops, have I just talked myself into using AF more 😱

 

[Perfect Imposter]

it doesn't.
also, the NEX EVF is THAT high in resolution that you do not really need peaking that much. The GXR EVF is crude in comparison.

also the MF loupe: on the NEX, you zoom in with a button press and it is VERY clear and easy to focus. On the GXR it is an ugly pixel mess and hard to judge focus by.

Were you viewing with the magnified portion in the centre, or covering the full screen? I find the full screen magnification is good enough to nail focus.

Having said that, I am disappointed in the Ricoh EVF. I also would like to see Ricoh improve focus peaking. I haven't used the Nex, but having watched some videos and according to some reviews, it appears Sony has a better implementation of focus peaking at this point.

 

[douglasf13]

I've mentioned this before, but one of the big advantages with NEX and M lenses is using a Hawks helicoid adapter. It removes the limitation of long minimum focus distances and allows your M lenses to focus close like SLR lenses do. We're not talking macro or anything, but it brings my .7m mfd down to around .3m, which makes quite a difference for many types of shots.

 

[Chyn]

I'm still waiting for the Nex &&
My shooting is mostly with modest wide angles if I shoot WA
Most of my WA are SLR.

At some point I panicked thinking I'd lost my 90 mm, only to discover it, to my great relief, in an inside coat pocket.

This is where Sony really succeeded: near universal compatibility with a whole load of legacy lenses. I still have a few Pentax K-mounts which might be adapted.

 

[Chyn]

it doesn't.
The peaking is white which makes it harder to see. The outline mode is ok for focusing, but not so nice for composition, imho.

also, the NEX EVF is THAT high in resolution that you do not really need peaking that much. The GXR EVF is crude in comparison.

This is good to know, thank you! I have heard great things about the new high-resolution Sony EVF, but I have yet to personally peer through one.

but afaik it is a matter of sensor read out speed/bandwith. That makes sense, as the Sony NEX Sensor can also record rather high resolution video, thus it can constantly output high res live view also, whereas the GXR M module is low res in live view.

that is THE single reason for not getting the M module.

Another critical insight that makes a big difference, and the NEX a more sensible solution relative to the GXR.

 

[Chyn]

I've mentioned this before, but one of the big advantages with NEX and M lenses is using a Hawks helicoid adapter. It removes the limitation of long minimum focus distances and allows your M lenses to focus close like SLR lenses do. We're not talking macro or anything, but it brings my .7m mfd down to around .3m, which makes quite a difference for many types of shots.

I will definitely have to look into getting this adapter. This thread is a treasure trove!