Anyone besides me notice the advisories on digitals?

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Seems the big boys of digital have all issued advisories about their camera sensors within the last two weeks—Canon, Nikon, Fuji and Sony have all put out warnings about their camera's sensors going "tango uniform" and really messing up the pictures they take
Sure glad I use FILM cameras, and especially RF film cameras, aren't you? ;o)
 
First, thanks for helping me learning a new term today -- tango uniform. Second, It will be interesting to see if this is played up or artificially played down in the oh-so-pro-digital photography magazines. They have sure suppressed the long-term storage issue. They are being so irresponsible not pointing out all the dangers of digital.
 
What's been interesting is to follow the MAJOR issues Canon and Nikon in particular have had over the last two years with quality control, even on their top digital cameras. The ONLY place i've seen this documented is on the user forums across the internet; NEVER in a photo magazine! One of the reasons I switched back to film from digital! (For the un-initiated, "tango uniform" is military slang for "toes up"; i.e., DEAD!)
 
I remember when digital was still very new a nameless english photography magazine said that shots from a 2mp slr were "indistinguishable" from 100 iso film in a nikon F5 and then actually showed examples. It was truly pitiful but I bet they made their advertising quota for that month. Any connection?
 
The CCD and CMOS sensors have developed processing issues similiar to what Brian described above. Here's a direct quote on a new Canon issue noted today at DPReview.com: "Canon has announced a problem with some of the CCDs used in its digital cameras and camcorders which causes images not to appear or appear distorted. This is due to a malfunction that means the wiring in the CCDs may come undone if exposed to high temperature or high humidity. "
Last year both Canon and Nikon had issues with numerous parts of their top-end cameras that became the subject of a recall notice to customers to correct the issues. And the beat goes on!
 
Not too bad for owning up to a manufacturing defect considering many of the models listed are almost 1 year out of production (my A70 is). I'm sure many Fuji S2 Pro owners will be happy to hear this... they've been the most vocal (rightly so) group so far.

Not like there aren't any film camera's out there with known issues like the control dial on Canon EOS slr's, flimsy film advance gears in certain cameras (I believe that there's one Leica model with this problem), Konica S2's with loose lense barrels (everyone I've seen so far) etc etc etc.
 
Haven't heard "tango uniform" since I left the Army. Thanks for the memories 🙂

I had that happen on my Minolta Dimage 7i... at first it was just an intermittent problem and then gradually it started freaking out more and more regularly. Definitely an insidious problem... and an expensive one to fix.

EDIT: Note that I'm not necessarily blaming the camera manufacturers for this, it's just the way things are with complex devices. Electronics, when they fail, fail hard and expensively.
 
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Trouble with digital cameras is the complexity their electronics. It's downright impossible to exhaustively test for all possible things that can go wrong in the manufacturing process of large sensors and processors. As a result, some will slip through the post manufacturing test, even if they are only borderline functional. Most of these slip-throughs will probably fail within a very short time frame, but the problems are with those that function for a while and give up after that.

Many of these fail from 'electro-migration', which means that because of the enormous currents flowing through these chips (sometimes even amps), the atoms that the micron wide wires inside them consist of will actually move. It gets worse under high temperatures, as the atoms move more easily then. This can be prevented by designing for robustness, but that takes quite some engineering effort. Sensors and processors would be considerably more expensive (we're not talking 10% or so here, but factors), and we're all complaining about the cost of digital SLRs as they are now, aren't we?

Still, I'll hazard a guess that the failure rate for dSLRs isn't that much different from their (electro-) mechanical brethren. It's just that with mechanical cameras, even if there's a failure, some parts of them still work and you can sometimes make do with them. So we think of them as more reliable. With digital it's often all or nothing..
 
Oh, and as an illustration, here are my personal numbers:

1. Zenit E : no failures
2. Nikon FE: mirror stick ups
3. Nikon FM: shutter jams
4. Nikon AF-SLRs: no failures
5. Bronica SQB: parts falling off (keeps on working though)
6. Konica Hexar AF: no failures
7. Konica Hexar RF: alignment (keeps on working though)
8. Voigtlander bessaT: no failures.
9. Digital compacts: no failures
10. Digital slr: no failures

Conclusion: from my (certainly not representative, but nevertheless) experience I could conclude that cameras primarily fail mechanically.
 
I had been thinking about buying a 350D soon - this has given me food for thought.

Regarding the (informal) reliability test - the Nikon FE/FM and even the Bronica might be 15 or 20 years old? Will our digicams/DSLR's be operating then? Should we expect them to work after 20 years? In real terms, compared to the equivalent film cameras of 20 years ago, digital cameras are probably cheaper than they have ever been, particulalry considering how much technology they contain.
 
1. Olympus OM-1: 1 Failure, mirror lockup
2. Olympus OM-1n: No failures
3. Olympus OM-2: No failures
4. Olympus OM-2: No failures
5. Olympus OM-2n: Nofailures
6. Konica C35: No failures
7. Minolta 7s: No failures
8. Olympus XA: 1 failure, shutter lock
9. Olympus XA: No failures
10. Olympus 35SP: No failures
11. Olympus 35SP: No failures
12. Olympus 35SP: Dead meter (purchased as is on oBoy)
13. Rollei SL66: Failures of 2 out of 3 backs; no failures of 3 bodies
14: Leica M3: No failures
15. Toyo 45A: No failures
16. Pentax H2s(?): One failure, can't recall specifics
17. Olympus C2000: No failures; bought used on oBoy

Damn, I've had too many cameras!

Trius
 
zuikologist said:
I had been thinking about buying a 350D soon - this has given me food for thought.
Don't let it scare you off. Threads like this illustrate how you can take a few isolated examples and attempt to build them into a general principle: i.e., don't buy digital, it's not safe. It's bad logic.

My results don't bear this out:

Canon G2 -- no problems
Canon S45 -- no problems
1st Canon 300D -- no problems
Panasonic Lumix -- no problems
2nd Canon 300D -- no problems

I've had occasional (and sometimes serious) problems with film gear, but it doesn't stop me buying film cams.

Gene
 
BGLOD is the built-in problem in the Nikon D70 body.

However, given that its frequency is not quite high, it won't deter me from buying one body some day.

I guess the problem when a digital camera fails is the complexity of their innards and the principles on which they work. It's easy to visualize the weak spots in a film camera because, after all, their goal is to allow light to hit the film surface. However, digitals not only have to deal with the light hitting the sensor: they also have to "create" the image inside. Easier said than done...

Interesting thread, though... Thanks for starting it, Rob! 🙂
 
SolaresLarrave said:
I guess the problem when a digital camera fails is the complexity of their innards and the principles on which they work. It's easy to visualize the weak spots in a film camera because, after all, their goal is to allow light to hit the film surface. However, digitals not only have to deal with the light hitting the sensor: they also have to "create" the image inside. Easier said than done...

Interesting thread, though... Thanks for starting it, Rob! 🙂
Yup, a digital camera is basically an optical lens with a computer wrapped around it. 😀

Gene
 
Gene

Thank you for the reassurance - I still need to consdier it, and I think as the price of DSLR's drops further there will be an even greater temptation. resolution and performanc of DSLR's is probably "good enough" for me now, although low light capability, silent operation etc means rangefinders still have their place.

I know I am treading old ground and not wishing to start a digi/film flame war, but I am old school when it comes to cameras, and any other high quality consumer durables such as watches, hi-fi, tv. I think my viewpoint is that older equipment is generally repairable and usable, but probably less so during the next decade as the repairers' knowledge literally dies off (luckily we have the internet to spread this knowledge) and film is harder to find.

I look forward to the Christmas sales (Thanksgiving sales in the US/Canada?) for a posisble bargain.
 
Robert

I like your comparison to car. There is nothing more annoying than having a perfectly mechanically good car go TU because of the failure of a rinky dink electronic part. OTH electonic control in cars is now very reliable so you do not often get this incident anymore. As digital photography matures more the reliability issues will also decrease. It is unfair to compare matured film camera technology with yet maturing digital camera technology.

Bob
 
zuikologist said:
Regarding the (informal) reliability test - the Nikon FE/FM and even the Bronica might be 15 or 20 years old?
Indeed, the FE and FM were a bit on age, but the Bronica SQB is 6yrs old now; I bought it new. Parts started falling off and coming loose after about 2 years (ca. 100 rolls). Stuff like strap eyelets and a small grip on the handle of the advance lever, nothing crucial, but not what you'd expect from a system designed for professional use (well perhaps that's it, I'm no professional 😉 )...
 
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