koven
Well-known
First of all I love this site and I love the all the pictures you guys take. I also love the discussions especially the ones in the philosophy of photography section. It has given me a lot to think about.
I started doing photography professionally a few months ago (portraits, editorial stuff, selling prints, and having art shows) and it wasn't until i started getting paid, that i realized how little I knew about field.
Ive learned a lot here but the one difficulty I have in reading posts is that a lot of amateur members say stuff like "i'm a lawyer, photography is just a hobby" then perceed to give paragraphs of opinions or insult peoples opinions. Or they say things like say things like "its not that important its just a hobby" and start giving advice. I understand where they are coming from but I kind of find those posts condescending. For me its more than a hobby, its my life. I'm just wondering if there are any forums where professional photographers post. Id love to read what they think about style, art, the nature of contemporary photography in this day and age and how the lines have blurred between commercial and fine art photography. Mainly im just looking for advice I wouldnt find in a fortune cookie.
Id just like to say that there are many great posters on this site amateur and professional alike. Reading some of the threads have given me a lot of insight and not just on photography, on life in general.
I started doing photography professionally a few months ago (portraits, editorial stuff, selling prints, and having art shows) and it wasn't until i started getting paid, that i realized how little I knew about field.
Ive learned a lot here but the one difficulty I have in reading posts is that a lot of amateur members say stuff like "i'm a lawyer, photography is just a hobby" then perceed to give paragraphs of opinions or insult peoples opinions. Or they say things like say things like "its not that important its just a hobby" and start giving advice. I understand where they are coming from but I kind of find those posts condescending. For me its more than a hobby, its my life. I'm just wondering if there are any forums where professional photographers post. Id love to read what they think about style, art, the nature of contemporary photography in this day and age and how the lines have blurred between commercial and fine art photography. Mainly im just looking for advice I wouldnt find in a fortune cookie.
Id just like to say that there are many great posters on this site amateur and professional alike. Reading some of the threads have given me a lot of insight and not just on photography, on life in general.
Dunn
Well-known
There is lightstalkers.org but it's mainly focused on photojournalism.
jmcd
Well-known
Imogen Cunningham described herself as an amateur because she loved photography (amator).
Maybe you could share some of what you have learned as a pro. I imagine it was quite a shift in perspective.
Best wishes on your career.
Maybe you could share some of what you have learned as a pro. I imagine it was quite a shift in perspective.
Best wishes on your career.
koven
Well-known
Thank you, I briefly checked out the site and I already can tell there is a wealth of information out there.
I don't know if I'm a position yet to give advice, I'm still learning something new every day. All i can say is that its impossible to do everything on your own and you need people that believe in you. Dealing with people in the industry is also very tricky. Also, don't get drunk at your own art show.
Thank you for this post.
As for what kind of photography im into, I've been mainly doing fashion look books and portraits/lifestyle shots for musicians.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The thing us, there's no 'general' professional photography forum, dedicated to 'professional secrets', because there couldn't be: photography is too broad a church. It's also undeniable that historically, the vast majority of professional photographers were 'high street hacks', doing a limited range of things competently rather than well. Such of them as survive tend to be pedaling pretty damn hard just to stay in business, let alone wasting time on the internet. The few professionals you do find on forums are generally retired or semi-retired, and their advice may not always be up to date.
PKR is absolutely right about books, and there are a few (a very few) magazines with genuine professional information. But what do you actually want to know?
Unless you are prepared to live on nothing and concentrate on Fine Art or its ever-closer cousin photojournalism, you need to spend at least a year or two in a big city well known for its photography: London, Paris, New York... That's where you'll meet other photographers and be able to it around drinking and talking with them, which is NOT the same as the internet. Basing yourself in Bug Tussle, Arizona or Dry Heaves, New Mexico is a short cut to getting trapped in hack-work.
Finally, do not neglect major gatherings such as the Rencontres at Arles (fine art), Perpignan (photojournalism), etc.
Cheers,
R.
PKR is absolutely right about books, and there are a few (a very few) magazines with genuine professional information. But what do you actually want to know?
Unless you are prepared to live on nothing and concentrate on Fine Art or its ever-closer cousin photojournalism, you need to spend at least a year or two in a big city well known for its photography: London, Paris, New York... That's where you'll meet other photographers and be able to it around drinking and talking with them, which is NOT the same as the internet. Basing yourself in Bug Tussle, Arizona or Dry Heaves, New Mexico is a short cut to getting trapped in hack-work.
Finally, do not neglect major gatherings such as the Rencontres at Arles (fine art), Perpignan (photojournalism), etc.
Cheers,
R.
koven
Well-known
Thanks I live in Toronto, Canada which has a pretty big art/media scene. And funny you mentioned New York, I have a gig there next week. Your posts makes a lot of sense. I have had the chance to meet some well respected photographers but I always forget what to ask.
willie_901
Veteran
I think your best bet is to carefully self-curate blogs and pros to follow on Twitter.
This is not an easy task because some pros who blog are building a business out of blogging instead of discussing their life as a photographer.
There are some Flickr Groups that are useful too.
DPREVIEW and LuLa have pro forums as do other well-known forums. You probably already looked at these and realized they aren't that informative.
This is not an easy task because some pros who blog are building a business out of blogging instead of discussing their life as a photographer.
There are some Flickr Groups that are useful too.
DPREVIEW and LuLa have pro forums as do other well-known forums. You probably already looked at these and realized they aren't that informative.
Jack Conrad
Well-known
Becoming an assistant is excellent excellent advice.
Whenever you run across someone you truly respect, for whatever reason ask, "how can I help?"
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I assisted to learn. I printed for a big catalog studio and watched them do lighting, wiggled my way into helping a little with lighting. Moved to an editorial photographer as a printer, then assistant, then photog. Did assisting for commercial guys as well, mostly studio stuff. Plenty of other little jobs here and there as an extra hand for a day or two, printing for some seasonal rush. Plenty of 'teachers' over the years on all kinds of jobs from grip & grin PR work to lighting elevator interiors (overnight jobs, so the elevators weren't out of commission during the day). This was long before the internet, long before there was much to read other than a few books. I wore out copies of a couple of books re-reading them to death.
I expect any professional photographer's forum would be mostly commiserating about the non-paying 'clients', the cost of insurance, the long hours doing everything but photography.
I expect any professional photographer's forum would be mostly commiserating about the non-paying 'clients', the cost of insurance, the long hours doing everything but photography.
Dave Jenkins
Loose Canon
Kirk Tuck's blog often has very helpful information and it's always a good read.
www.http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/
www.http://visualsciencelab.blogspot.com/
David_Manning
Well-known
The pro-oriented forums you'll find don't deal with taking pictures. Depending upon the specialization, they deal with aspects of running a business (Buy or rent studio space? Insurance for location shooting?) to location shoots (Permits for public locations). Lightstalkers is mostly about logistics for freelancers (Fixer needed in ___).
A very few deal with equipment, but it's not snarky measurebating...it's generally asking for recommendations to solve photographic problems (IR vs. radio slaving for lights, or remote triggering for a 1DSmkII). They rarely talk about the latest and greatest gear...because they generally can't afford it. They shoot with what they have until it stops working, or they use what's provided for them.
We're used to hobbyists arguing the finer points of noise control at 6400ISO or field curvature and distortion of a brick wall with available 24mm lenses.
Pro forums are boring for the most part, but deal with parts of the business that make it a business...which is extremely important for people making their living selling pictures.
Having tasted both sides (pro and hobbyist), I can say that for ME, it's much more satisfying making my living in a different profession, and shooting what interests me personally. For instance, I love shooting for b&w travel, but it's near impossible to market commercially. At the end of the day, photography supplies the terrific excuse for me to explore the world the way I see it.
Good luck in pursuit of professional photography. It'll be rewarding in a small-business way, but very hard work. I hope you enjoy what you shoot.
A very few deal with equipment, but it's not snarky measurebating...it's generally asking for recommendations to solve photographic problems (IR vs. radio slaving for lights, or remote triggering for a 1DSmkII). They rarely talk about the latest and greatest gear...because they generally can't afford it. They shoot with what they have until it stops working, or they use what's provided for them.
We're used to hobbyists arguing the finer points of noise control at 6400ISO or field curvature and distortion of a brick wall with available 24mm lenses.
Pro forums are boring for the most part, but deal with parts of the business that make it a business...which is extremely important for people making their living selling pictures.
Having tasted both sides (pro and hobbyist), I can say that for ME, it's much more satisfying making my living in a different profession, and shooting what interests me personally. For instance, I love shooting for b&w travel, but it's near impossible to market commercially. At the end of the day, photography supplies the terrific excuse for me to explore the world the way I see it.
Good luck in pursuit of professional photography. It'll be rewarding in a small-business way, but very hard work. I hope you enjoy what you shoot.