Topdog1
Well-known
I sent the following email to the relevant party at Epson concerning R-D1 service:
"Hi XXX,
We just talked on the phone about the online dust up that is happening over Epson's support of the R-D1 digital rangefinder camera. This is a great product that camera buyers are just starting to discover since Leica validated the category with the introduction of their M8 digital rangefinder this month.
For better or worse, Epson pioneered this category, perhaps before the market was ready. In any case, users are discovering that this camera is a great alternative to the highly expensive (~$5K) and flawed Leica M8. It seems to be flying off your refurb site and through secondary sales on eBay.
Unfortunately, the R-D1 had problems of its own, mostly quality control issues around the alignment of the rangefinder mechanism and failure of the shutter. Camera buyers seem to be willing to forgive Epson this failing, however Epson seems unable or unwilling to provide in warranty service for this expensive product. Angry users are also claiming that Epson will not provide repair information to third party independent camera repair shops to fix the problem. This users will not forgive Epson for.
The result is a black eye for Epson, when instead you could be a hero by supporting or allowing others to support this now sought after camera.
You can check out the rage brewing at the Internet's largest rangefinder user site: www.rangefinderforum.com
You might also check out these specific threads on the site:
R-D1 thread which organizes all of the posts about the R-D1:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=48
The most recent of many problem posts about R-D1 service:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32209
Another:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32184
A very pointed complaint about Epson service:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32074
XXX, I hope you can forward this to someone who can take action on this issue. It is potentially a black eye for Epson and missing a revenue opportunity for a cemera that is still quite unique, despite its problems and the fact that it was introduced as long as two years ago.
Regards,
Ira"
Here is the reply I received shortly thereafter:
"Dear Ira,
Thank you for your call and for taking the time to put your concerns in writing. On behalf of Epson America, it's greatly appreciated. I have already shared your e-mail with the senior manager and expect to hear back tomorrow. I will keep in touch and let you know what I find.
Have a great evening.
Kind regards,
XXX"
The die is cast. We shall see what happens.
Regards,
Ira
"Hi XXX,
We just talked on the phone about the online dust up that is happening over Epson's support of the R-D1 digital rangefinder camera. This is a great product that camera buyers are just starting to discover since Leica validated the category with the introduction of their M8 digital rangefinder this month.
For better or worse, Epson pioneered this category, perhaps before the market was ready. In any case, users are discovering that this camera is a great alternative to the highly expensive (~$5K) and flawed Leica M8. It seems to be flying off your refurb site and through secondary sales on eBay.
Unfortunately, the R-D1 had problems of its own, mostly quality control issues around the alignment of the rangefinder mechanism and failure of the shutter. Camera buyers seem to be willing to forgive Epson this failing, however Epson seems unable or unwilling to provide in warranty service for this expensive product. Angry users are also claiming that Epson will not provide repair information to third party independent camera repair shops to fix the problem. This users will not forgive Epson for.
The result is a black eye for Epson, when instead you could be a hero by supporting or allowing others to support this now sought after camera.
You can check out the rage brewing at the Internet's largest rangefinder user site: www.rangefinderforum.com
You might also check out these specific threads on the site:
R-D1 thread which organizes all of the posts about the R-D1:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?forumid=48
The most recent of many problem posts about R-D1 service:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32209
Another:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32184
A very pointed complaint about Epson service:
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32074
XXX, I hope you can forward this to someone who can take action on this issue. It is potentially a black eye for Epson and missing a revenue opportunity for a cemera that is still quite unique, despite its problems and the fact that it was introduced as long as two years ago.
Regards,
Ira"
Here is the reply I received shortly thereafter:
"Dear Ira,
Thank you for your call and for taking the time to put your concerns in writing. On behalf of Epson America, it's greatly appreciated. I have already shared your e-mail with the senior manager and expect to hear back tomorrow. I will keep in touch and let you know what I find.
Have a great evening.
Kind regards,
XXX"
The die is cast. We shall see what happens.
Regards,
Ira
Topdog1
Well-known
Go for it!
regards,
Ira
regards,
Ira
d_e
Member
Good effort guys! Let's wait and see what comes next, hoping for better service for our beloved RD1/s!
Plasmat
-
I would strongly recommend sending this via FedEx, NOT EMAIL, to the President of Seiko Epson in Japan, along with print-outs of some of the relevant posts.
This is how Japanese companies work. One phone call from an annoyed exec and you will get the ball rolling almost instantaneously. They abhor embarassment.
This is how Japanese companies work. One phone call from an annoyed exec and you will get the ball rolling almost instantaneously. They abhor embarassment.
Topdog1
Well-known
Ok, can't hurt. Plasmat, you have FedEx'd him before. What is the address?
Regards,
Ira
Regards,
Ira
Topdog1
Well-known
Can we get Plasmat's wife to translate it into Japanese?
/Ira
/Ira
Plasmat
-
Seiji Hanaoka - President
Seiko Epson Corporation
3-3-5, Owa, Suwa-city, Nagano Pref.
392-8502 JAPAN
Phone +81-266-52-3131
I would also cc [SIZE=-1]Isao "Eddy" Edatsune, who was the project manager/designer of the R-D1 and has a vested interest in it. He masterminded and shepherded the whole thing through to production.
It's too long for the whole thing to be translated by her, it would take forever.
Do a short "cover letter", and she'll translate that. That will get their attention. They have plenty of English translation staff.
These were my thoughts as to specific requests:
[/SIZE]
1) Free in or out of warranty repair of faulty rangefinder mechanisms, many of which came misaligned from the factory and were never properly set up. This would include a hardware fix.
2) Establishment of a procedure where spare parts, service, and knowledgable repair persons would be available to work on existing base of cameras. Spare parts, technical database,, and diagnostic software would be made available. Perhaps a website for this purpose. Even a small repair center in Japan, Europe or USA would be acceptable.
3) Distribution of diagnostic software, parts, and technical manuals to qualified repair independents, such as DAG.
This would go a long way to fixing the problems, and would be no great financial burdern on Epson.
[SIZE=-1]
PS: The "Chairman" is retired. The correct persons to contact are the two above. Be specific and polite. I would include a list of requests like the ones I posted, for total clarity.
[/SIZE]
Seiko Epson Corporation
3-3-5, Owa, Suwa-city, Nagano Pref.
392-8502 JAPAN
Phone +81-266-52-3131
I would also cc [SIZE=-1]Isao "Eddy" Edatsune, who was the project manager/designer of the R-D1 and has a vested interest in it. He masterminded and shepherded the whole thing through to production.
It's too long for the whole thing to be translated by her, it would take forever.
Do a short "cover letter", and she'll translate that. That will get their attention. They have plenty of English translation staff.
These were my thoughts as to specific requests:
[/SIZE]
1) Free in or out of warranty repair of faulty rangefinder mechanisms, many of which came misaligned from the factory and were never properly set up. This would include a hardware fix.
2) Establishment of a procedure where spare parts, service, and knowledgable repair persons would be available to work on existing base of cameras. Spare parts, technical database,, and diagnostic software would be made available. Perhaps a website for this purpose. Even a small repair center in Japan, Europe or USA would be acceptable.
3) Distribution of diagnostic software, parts, and technical manuals to qualified repair independents, such as DAG.
This would go a long way to fixing the problems, and would be no great financial burdern on Epson.
[SIZE=-1]
PS: The "Chairman" is retired. The correct persons to contact are the two above. Be specific and polite. I would include a list of requests like the ones I posted, for total clarity.
[/SIZE]
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Topdog1
Well-known
Is Eddy at the same address as the President?
/Ira
/Ira
Plasmat
-
That I don't know. I assume anything sent to Corporate headquarters will be delivered to Eddy. I'm googling for his email address right now, maybe I can find it in Japanese.
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iml
Well-known
Plasmat said:
I think this point is worth stressing.
At the very least, this approach may lead Epson to consider training some third parties in maintenance and repair of the R-D1, which would be a great step forward.
Ian
Bob Parsons
Established
iml said:
I don't care who is able to service/repair the cameras as long as they are competent and efficient. As you say it does not have to be Epson. Trained third parties would be the least troublesome option for them.
I was considering purchasing a second camera but placing so much reliance on items which at the moment cannot be serviced is making me think twice.
Bob.
taffer
void
I don't own a RD-1 myself, and I'm not sure if I'll ever do.
But that said, I think this attempt to turn the RD-1 into the world's first 'sourceforge' camera could be a very good idea.
There are several cases of abandonware (no longer supported software or even hardware) that have turned into more or less successful new alive projects thanks to the motivation, support, knowledge and passion from their loyal owners/users.
So, I sure wish you guys all the best with this !
Oscar
But that said, I think this attempt to turn the RD-1 into the world's first 'sourceforge' camera could be a very good idea.
There are several cases of abandonware (no longer supported software or even hardware) that have turned into more or less successful new alive projects thanks to the motivation, support, knowledge and passion from their loyal owners/users.
So, I sure wish you guys all the best with this !
Oscar
Didier
"Deed"
Plasmat said:
AFAIK Sean Reid had proposed this to Epson USA executives a time ago, but nothing happened.
I believe Epson's CEO or at least R-D1 mastermind Eddie Edatsune knows about all our problems - and would like to help us - but changing the situation isn't easy for them.
Epson is a mass market producer. The R-D1 is a niche product for people who are mostly used to Leica quality control and Leica user service. That's two pairs of shoes. If a consumer printer or scanner does not work anymore - replace it (when in warranty) or trash it. That's what their customer services are used to. But what we want - individual repairing, servicing by specially skilled people - is something Epson has never planned nor calculated into the price of the camera. Epson is spread over the world, and differently organized in different countries. Like posted earlier, for instance in my country the Epson servicing is done by a 3rd party who also services NEC, Psion and other products (and never saw a R-D1 before when I brought mine in).
Cooperating with external experts like DAG for warranty repairs would cost Epson a lot for shure. But maybe that would still be cheaper than spending a lot of money for pr campaigns to repair the damaged credibility and image of the company. Don't know.
In any case I encourage Ira to pursuit his initiative.
Didier
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iUser
Established
you people do know that only 40% of epsons business is with printers and 15% optics, right?
abumac
Well-known
I'm would like to buy a R-D1, but without a good working service I let it.
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
I don't see that as relevant.iUser said:
iUser
Established
Trius said:
Humm, yes. That view would seem consistent with some of the members here…
15% of the company is in the optics market and that mostly scanners. I’m thinking the budget isn’t going to pander to a specialist market ¨off the shelf¨ or ¨on the day¨ as you Americans seem to like it.
Another point is the Americans play no part in bringing the RD1 to market so emailing them is pointless as is mailing the French or the UK.
What I do know is epson are honour bound to have a period of years where they must be able to support the unit (applies to Europe).
I’m hoping epson UK will come good on this, I’m sure they will. Then again I’m one of the lucky ones who have never had an issue with camera so I’m not that pressed on the issue.
Topdog1
Well-known
"epson are honour bound"
You English are so quaint!
"Americans play no part in bringing the RD1 to market"
Let me say this again: :bang:
Phil Amato, located in Californis USA, is the product manager of the R-D1.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-5311.html
Regards,
Ira
You English are so quaint!
"Americans play no part in bringing the RD1 to market"
Let me say this again: :bang:
Phil Amato, located in Californis USA, is the product manager of the R-D1.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-5311.html
Regards,
Ira
Jim Watts
Still trying to See.
Topdog1 said:"epson are honour bound"
You English are so quaint!
Ira
Well it is a bit more than honour. There is legislation requiring manufacturers to carry parts (repair?) for 7 years after the product ceases production, but I'm not sure how enforceable that is for the individual consumer.
The "Sale of Goods Act" 1979 and ammendments in the U.K.
http://www.dti.gov.uk/consumers/fact-sheets/page24700.html places responsibilty squarely on the retailer and it is to him not the manufacturer you should look to solve your problems. You are not limited by the 'nominal' warranty period. It maybe unfortunate for the retailer if he's blameless but it is possible to claim if the item is "not fit for purpose" - I think it cost £2K and it no longer takes photos - would qualify, for upto 6 years by action (against the retailer) in the small claim court.
"• For up to six years after purchase (five years from discovery in Scotland) purchasers can demand damages (which a court would equate to the cost of a repair or replacement).
• A purchaser who is a consumer, i.e. is not buying in the course of a business, can alternatively request a repair or replacement.
• If repair and replacement are not possible or too costly, then the consumer can seek a partial refund, if they have had some benefit from the good, or a full refund if the fault/s have meant they have enjoyed no benefit
• In general, the onus is on all purchasers to prove the goods did not conform to contract (e.g. was inherently faulty) and should have reasonably lasted until this point in time (i.e. perishable goods do not last for six years). "
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emraphoto
Veteran
rd-1
rd-1
just wanted to take a moment to say thanks ira for putting this ball in motion. i have been holding on to the funds for an rd-1 for some time now. i desperately want to buy however i cannot afford to be stuck with an expensive problem. it would be a "working" camera and i can't make money if my "working" camera ain't working! until epson responds to the concerns expressed here i will NOT be buying an rd-1! although i am keeping my fingers crossed epson responds favourably.
again, thanx
john
rd-1
just wanted to take a moment to say thanks ira for putting this ball in motion. i have been holding on to the funds for an rd-1 for some time now. i desperately want to buy however i cannot afford to be stuck with an expensive problem. it would be a "working" camera and i can't make money if my "working" camera ain't working! until epson responds to the concerns expressed here i will NOT be buying an rd-1! although i am keeping my fingers crossed epson responds favourably.
again, thanx
john