Beseler 23c ii with a cold light head? HELP!

J

JoshBphotog

Newbie
Local time
10:02 AM
Joined
Jun 9, 2013
Messages
7
Hey All,

I recently scored a Mint condition Beseler 23c ii for cheap and was super excited to get it set up when I noticed the Lamp was different. Cold light lamp and something completely new and out of my knowledge range. Doing some research it appears Im missing a ZONE VI stabilizer and I guess I'd also need a photo cell?? I'm not really sure about any of this. I've tried searching for these parts to complete the set up and came up short. Contacted the seller and he said it works fine as is and its how he used it. Not so sure about that.

Is it possible to just put a 23c Lamp cap on there ( I found one for sale) or will I need the 23c ii version? Also will I need to change anything else inside if I swap to a conventional lamp cap?

Sorry for the long explanation and thanks in advanced to any input!

-Josh
 
Are you certain that the cold light source is a Zone VI. Aristo units were often used with the Beseler 23.

It would be helpful if you posted photographs of what you have - both the cold light source and whatever you have that sits above the negative stage.
 
I used a 23C and a 45MCRX (both with Aristo units) for many years. I'm not familiar with the ZoneVI product. The Aristos that I had were self-contained...no additional parts. Photos might be helpful.
 
Over at apug.org there are numerous posts that you can search through, including some from me. Briefly, my guess is that your cold light head is an early one, before they were supplied with a socket on the top for the Stabilizer (or later, the better Compensating Timer). The socket is a circular DIN 3-pin one (if you're very old, you might remember these in audio gear, or the very first IBM PC keyboards).

The main characteristics of these tubes (made by Aristo) were
1. the light is not a wide spectrum, mostly bluish, making it efficient for graded papers and not so easily filtered for variable contrast papers, and
2. the light output increased quite a lot as the tube heated during an exposure, which led to the invention of Stabilizer etc. People without the Stabilizer or Compensating Timer coped by ensuring that their pattern of on-times and off-times followed a pattern to ensure consistency.

Later Aristo made a broader spectrum tube which was better for VC filters. Some people had better reported success with filters on the older tubes than the reports of others.

Also later Aristo brought out a 2-tube VC head (which is superb: I have one) and Zone_VI also had several at different times. These were expensive and currently spare tubes are available on special order from the company that took over Aristo. These are also expensive. Search apug.org if you're interested.

Anyway, I would advise you to test your unit. I assume you're planning to use VC paper with filters. See what you get. Don't worry if exposure is tricky, just see if you can get a reasonable contrast grade with the filters. If not, a Stabilizer or Compensating Timer will not help. The traditional lamphouse might be a better approach. Sorry I don't know the models of the Beseler 23.
 
I should add: if required, the sensor can be retro fitted. Alternative components are available despite Zone_VI being long gone. Aristo made the Zone_VI tubes and maybe the early heads: they looked pretty much identical.
 
Hey guys thanks for the responses!

Here is a google drive link of the photos (sorry I dont know how to post photos here)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxw3i-wb4nEYVENsZ093WlM2WTg

Sounds like I'm getting into a set up thats way over my head, and I guess Ideally I would like to just get out of this cold light head and into a traditional lamp. I've found a Cap for a Beseler 23c and curious if that would fit my 23c ii version? And would that be plug and play or would I need any other condensing pieces?

Or if anyone cant point me to someone selling a 23c ii cap?

Thanks again guys for all the responses!
 
Get the traditional lamp house or a standard VC head. Cold light is great for graded papers, but not for VC. Even the dedicated zone VI VC cold light heads gave a pretty small range of contrast. Having printed with most every light source with a huge range of papers I would never recommend cold light today.

The 23c parts are all interchangeable (perhaps with some very minor hacking of screw sizes/pitch) regardless of version. There is some variation in the actual bulb holder (the cap with the socket for the bulb itself), but if the unit you are looking at has the bulb holder and the cowl/housing/condenser it will fit right on.

The oldest 23 versions were grey, then blue and finally the ii and iii are black. I've worked on iii's with blue parts and grey models with black parts. Better long term compatibility than Nikon F mount.
 
If the part you're calling "The Cap" is the top piece that the bulb plugs into and it sits on the top of the enlarger where your cords are coming out of...I have that part...it's black but the older style/type that uses a PH111A 125V 75W Bulb.
It would pop right on the top of your housing...
I could send pictures if you want...also if you don't have a condenser or diffuser you'll need one of those too...I've seen the condensers for sale on ebay...
Another way to go is with the Color Head...but if simple is what you want go with the regular bulb...
And I agree with Bob...all these parts are pretty much interchangeable...
 
JoshBphotog said:
Hey guys thanks for the responses!

Here is a google drive link of the photos (sorry I dont know how to post photos here)
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bxw3i-wb4nEYVENsZ093WlM2WTg

Sounds like I'm getting into a set up thats way over my head, and I guess Ideally I would like to just get out of this cold light head and into a traditional lamp. I've found a Cap for a Beseler 23c and curious if that would fit my 23c ii version? And would that be plug and play or would I need any other condensing pieces?

Or if anyone cant point me to someone selling a 23c ii cap?

Thanks again guys for all the responses!
Click to expand...

From what I can see in your photographs, you will need the condensor set in addition to the bulb socket cap.

The cold light source was a replacement for the original condenser light source that your enlarger had when it was new. The condensers aren't used with a cold light source. Your best bet might be to buy the entire confessor head assembly; these are frequently available on eBay.

Other options are a Beseler Variable Contrast head (not so common) or a Beseler Color Head (more common). The color head will work just fine with VC papers
 
Just saw the pics you posted to the Google Drive, and agree with Graybeard you will need the condenser and the cap. That is a single tube cold light head, so you would be able to use filters to some degree, but with the fluorescent tubes there is a color cast that hinders full contrast control with VC papers. As you read, there can also be problems with consistency of exposure with these units if you do not have the photocell and Zone VI timer that can read output through the photocell and adjust time accordingly.

The cap is the only part that is not 100% compatible as some of them have a flange that that interfaces with a slot inside the cowl you show in your pictures. It doesn't seem like the cowl on your unit has that slot. A cap is available at B&H here, however I'm not positive which version this current one is, tho I am 99% sure it does not have the flange.

This eBay listing shows the slot inside the cowl in the 5th picture. This style cowl can accept any cap. It sounds like Nikon Sam has the correct newer style cap, as it would sit on top of the cowl rather than get set into and atop the cowl.

Old style with flange, flat topped:


New style, without flange, taller top:


Sometime during the run of 23C II units the cap was changed and the slot in the cowl removed. I suppose it was a cost savings.

The condenser isn't listed at B&H as a separate part, but there is currently one on eBay so you know what you are after. If there is a college or high school near you that has/had a darkroom they might have several condenser lenses lying around they would give you. I might be able to scab one from the place I used to work. Let me know if you hit a dead end on one.

Beseler seems to have gotten straightened out with their customer service again, so you might try giving them a call directly if you get stuck, they could likely get you a parts diagram for the 23C II. The website has the 23C III exploded view here. I also recommend the KHB folks for all things enlarger. They are very helpful, tho they don't seem to list the cap for a 23C.
 
Bob...I have the old style with the flange that uses the smaller bulb...
My Beseler 23C II came with the Colorhead so I have never had a need for the Cap but I've always kept it.
 
As mentioned above if you're doing VC B&W consider a dichroic color head. I know Beseler made them and they're diffusion as are cold light. They'll give identical results to a cold light and give you the option of dialing in your contrast. Filtration tables are on the Internet for correct filtration for VC paper.

I used to print all of my B&W with a super chromega 4x5 and currently have an Omega 6x7 dichroic color head mounted on my Focomat. It's perfect for VC B&W.
 
nikon_sam said:
Bob...I have the old style with the flange that uses the smaller bulb...
My Beseler 23C II came with the Colorhead so I have never had a need for the Cap but I've always kept it.
Click to expand...

Perhaps he does have the slotted version of the cowl?


x-ray said:
As mentioned above if you're doing VC B&W consider a dichroic color head. I know Beseler made them and they're diffusion as are cold light. They'll give identical results to a cold light and give you the option of dialing in your contrast. Filtration tables are on the Internet for correct filtration for VC paper.

I used to print all of my B&W with a super chromega 4x5 and currently have an Omega 6x7 dichroic color head mounted on my Focomat. It's perfect for VC B&W.
Click to expand...

When working well they are a great choice. I've not come across many examples of the colorheads, but most of the ones I have seen have been in rough shape, granted they were likely pretty old and had been in either school or prolab darkrooms.
 
sepiareverb said:
...
Sometime during the run of 23C II units the cap was changed and the slot in the cowl removed. I suppose it was a cost savings.
....
Click to expand...

The reason for the change was a change in the lamp type. The "old style" used a PH111a lamp, one which had "gone out of style" and not used by any other current enlarger. The new style used the newer PH140 lamp that was commonly used by a number of enlargers at the time.
 
Dwig said:
The reason for the change was a change in the lamp type. The "old style" used a PH111a lamp, one which had "gone out of style" and not used by any other current enlarger. The new style used the newer PH140 lamp that was commonly used by a number of enlargers at the time.
Click to expand...

Aha! I enjoy threads that tease out this kind of info. Thanks Dwig!
 
Dang I ordered one but I think it's for the older version and looking at my enlarger I believe I have the newer version without the slot?

Anyone have a newer version for sale that's not $150 from B&H?

This is such a hassle getting those thing together hah

Thanks again for all of your input!
 
sepiareverb said:
Perhaps he does have the slotted version of the cowl?




When working well they are a great choice. I've not come across many examples of the colorheads, but most of the ones I have seen have been in rough shape, granted they were likely pretty old and had been in either school or prolab darkrooms.
Click to expand...

There's not much in them to go wrong. I bought a C700 dichroic off eBay for $45 and looked new. A good friend bought a C700 after he saw the one I bought to put on his Valoy II. He got it off eBay also for less than what I paid and it appeared new also. I think if you look around you'll find one cheap and in great condition. I know there were Beseler brand units made specifically for that model and save seen them quite cheap. There aren't many folks wet printing color anymore and they're happy to get rid of them.
 
I'm a dyed in the wool cold light user, but if I were starting out I would go with a colour head, for its ability to dial in variable contrast grades. I don't know much about which makes/models fit your Beseler but as it was one of the USA's most popular enlargers there must be lots of colour heads out there.

Incidentally, for what it's worth, the OP's photos show that his cold light head does have the sensor installed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom