fidget
Lemon magnet
I took a risk and bought a nice looking 6x9 RF folder which didn't have much of a description.
I believe that it dates from the late 30s to late 40s.
The rangefinder is a little odd, it seems to have a horizontal split, but if viewed at it's best angle it has a fairly presentable coincident image.
None of the slow speeds are working, but from 25th and up they are nice and smooth. Good enough, in fact, to run off a test film without doing anything to the camera. I've yet to dev the film. I can hardly wait to see what is there!
Does anyone have one of these and can comment on the RF, maybe even how to adjust it?
Dave...
I believe that it dates from the late 30s to late 40s.
The rangefinder is a little odd, it seems to have a horizontal split, but if viewed at it's best angle it has a fairly presentable coincident image.
None of the slow speeds are working, but from 25th and up they are nice and smooth. Good enough, in fact, to run off a test film without doing anything to the camera. I've yet to dev the film. I can hardly wait to see what is there!
Does anyone have one of these and can comment on the RF, maybe even how to adjust it?
Dave...
Attachments
ZeissFan
Veteran
This type of rangefinder is a bit uncommon although not rare. I think it was a lower-cost alternative to the traditional rangefinder assembly. This system also was used in some of the Agfa Karats, the Kodak 35 RF, the Argus C-3 "Brick" and others.
I've not found a way to open or remove the top deck, but I suspect that you have to remove one or more of the leatherette coverings on the viewfinder. There might be an adjustment screw that will let you fine tune the rangefinder, possibly behind the leatherette on the front. Or maybe you will need to remove the long strip.
Some of the Voigtlander cameras had unusual construction, which makes it very difficult to disassemble and service today.
Your camera originally had a hinged yellow filter that attached to the front of the shutter assembly. You can see the remnants of it in the two screw posts near "Compur Rapid."
There also is a metal frame that slides into the film chamber and allows you to shoot 6x4.5. It's a neat little device, because it automatically switches the viewfinder to the 6x4.5 format.
What lens is on your camera? I have a Helomar -- a triplet. The more desirable lens is the Skopar or the Heliar.
I've not found a way to open or remove the top deck, but I suspect that you have to remove one or more of the leatherette coverings on the viewfinder. There might be an adjustment screw that will let you fine tune the rangefinder, possibly behind the leatherette on the front. Or maybe you will need to remove the long strip.
Some of the Voigtlander cameras had unusual construction, which makes it very difficult to disassemble and service today.
Your camera originally had a hinged yellow filter that attached to the front of the shutter assembly. You can see the remnants of it in the two screw posts near "Compur Rapid."
There also is a metal frame that slides into the film chamber and allows you to shoot 6x4.5. It's a neat little device, because it automatically switches the viewfinder to the 6x4.5 format.
What lens is on your camera? I have a Helomar -- a triplet. The more desirable lens is the Skopar or the Heliar.
fidget
Lemon magnet
Hi, thanks for the info.
It looks like at some time in it's life, the leather covering on the top housing has been removed and then stuck down. So this could be the way in. The RF is off vertically and is quite close horizontally, but what I don't know is if the view in the RF should have the horizontal "split" of images. As I mentioned, with just a little practice it works well enough, so i don't want to fix anything that ain't broke.
The lens is the Heliar and it's in excellent condition. Hoping for some good detail from in my pics. From what I have read, the Heliar is very well regarded, even of this age.
I must dev the test film soon!
Dave...
It looks like at some time in it's life, the leather covering on the top housing has been removed and then stuck down. So this could be the way in. The RF is off vertically and is quite close horizontally, but what I don't know is if the view in the RF should have the horizontal "split" of images. As I mentioned, with just a little practice it works well enough, so i don't want to fix anything that ain't broke.
The lens is the Heliar and it's in excellent condition. Hoping for some good detail from in my pics. From what I have read, the Heliar is very well regarded, even of this age.
I must dev the test film soon!
Dave...
ZeissFan
Veteran
Wait -- I was wrong about the film chamber mask. It does convert the camera to 6x4.5, but you have to change the viewfinder frame manually by turning that little knurled post near the viewfinder.
The Heliar is supposed to be an excellent lens. I'm sure that you'll get some excellent photos.
The Heliar is supposed to be an excellent lens. I'm sure that you'll get some excellent photos.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Dave,
I have the post war Bessa II. It is built on the same platform as your Bessa RF. I treat it as mini-large format camera.
Once you find whatever screws are holding down the top cover. There two on mine. Your top screws are probably under the leatherette/leather on the top cover. There is a third screw up above the supply side film chamber. So, it is inside the camera. That allow you to remove the depth field indicator inside the focus ring. You can figure out the rest from there. The only tools needed some jeweler's screw drivers.
I can't help you with the shutter, but the Bessa RF had separate VF/RF assemblies. Cleaning the viewfinder optics should be straight forward. Well worth doing. Plus, you get to see where those two little wholes on the top cover go to. They go to the RF adjustment. You can clean the lenses for the RF, but not the beam splitter mirror.
I agree with Mike. Voigtlanders are quirky cameras with regards their construction. I'd much rather that they would have put the film winder on the left of my camera and the focus wheel over on the the top right side - so the front platform could open to the right instead of the left. This would have put the shutter release on the right side of the camera and move the viewfinder eye-piece to the left side on the Bessa II .
Ergonomics aside, I do like this camera. The Heliar gives images an old timey look.
I have the post war Bessa II. It is built on the same platform as your Bessa RF. I treat it as mini-large format camera.
Once you find whatever screws are holding down the top cover. There two on mine. Your top screws are probably under the leatherette/leather on the top cover. There is a third screw up above the supply side film chamber. So, it is inside the camera. That allow you to remove the depth field indicator inside the focus ring. You can figure out the rest from there. The only tools needed some jeweler's screw drivers.
I can't help you with the shutter, but the Bessa RF had separate VF/RF assemblies. Cleaning the viewfinder optics should be straight forward. Well worth doing. Plus, you get to see where those two little wholes on the top cover go to. They go to the RF adjustment. You can clean the lenses for the RF, but not the beam splitter mirror.
I agree with Mike. Voigtlanders are quirky cameras with regards their construction. I'd much rather that they would have put the film winder on the left of my camera and the focus wheel over on the the top right side - so the front platform could open to the right instead of the left. This would have put the shutter release on the right side of the camera and move the viewfinder eye-piece to the left side on the Bessa II .
Ergonomics aside, I do like this camera. The Heliar gives images an old timey look.
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ZeissFan
Veteran
Chippy, I meant only that most rangefinder systems seem to use the coincidence style with a rangefinder "patch" or spot in the middle. And those that require the photographer to align two parts of a split image aren't as common.
The comment about it being a lower-cost alternative is pure speculation, and probably applies only to the Agfa Karat, Kodak 35 RF and the Argus C3.
Now that I think about it, the Kodak Medalist cameras uses such a system, is based on prisms and can be very difficult to correct if those prisms slip out of place.
The comment about it being a lower-cost alternative is pure speculation, and probably applies only to the Agfa Karat, Kodak 35 RF and the Argus C3.
Now that I think about it, the Kodak Medalist cameras uses such a system, is based on prisms and can be very difficult to correct if those prisms slip out of place.
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fidget
Lemon magnet
Hmm, very interesting and useful info. Many thanks Andrew and Andrew.
I managed to get the film dry, but whilst drying I could see some evidence of light leaks on the very edge of only 2 or 3 frames, all at the bottom of the frame with the same pattern. May be red window leakage. I remember winding on in bright sunlight whilst squinting to see the frame number come along.
Pictures were a slight disappointment (I am always hopeful that they will be perfect!). They are all soft in the area they should be at their sharpest. In one or two with subjects at a range of distances I can see that the object at 25ft on which I focussed is soft and that at 50ft some objects are very sharp (at f11). So I guess that a trip into the RF is required after all.
Incidentally, the pressure plate has the deep web-like pattern and a number pressed into the back. What vintage might this be?
I managed to get the film dry, but whilst drying I could see some evidence of light leaks on the very edge of only 2 or 3 frames, all at the bottom of the frame with the same pattern. May be red window leakage. I remember winding on in bright sunlight whilst squinting to see the frame number come along.
Pictures were a slight disappointment (I am always hopeful that they will be perfect!). They are all soft in the area they should be at their sharpest. In one or two with subjects at a range of distances I can see that the object at 25ft on which I focussed is soft and that at 50ft some objects are very sharp (at f11). So I guess that a trip into the RF is required after all.
Incidentally, the pressure plate has the deep web-like pattern and a number pressed into the back. What vintage might this be?
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
Bessa RF
Bessa RF
I don't have an RF, just two post war Bessa I's - one was my father's camera with the Vaskar 4.5 lens and the other I bought recently and had CLA'd by my local Voigtlander technician. It has the Skopar 3.5 lens. Both are in occasional use.
There is a guy I've had contact with in Sydney who is/was a huge collector of everything Voigtlander and he's very knowledgeable about most models. He might be able to give some more specific information about the particular model you are referring to.
His name is Bob Clarke and his email is/was <bessa@dodo.com.au>
LMY
Bessa RF
I don't have an RF, just two post war Bessa I's - one was my father's camera with the Vaskar 4.5 lens and the other I bought recently and had CLA'd by my local Voigtlander technician. It has the Skopar 3.5 lens. Both are in occasional use.
There is a guy I've had contact with in Sydney who is/was a huge collector of everything Voigtlander and he's very knowledgeable about most models. He might be able to give some more specific information about the particular model you are referring to.
His name is Bob Clarke and his email is/was <bessa@dodo.com.au>
LMY
fidget
Lemon magnet
Just to add to what I can see of the RF, there is a coincident image rather than an image with a clean split to it. When I cover each RF window in turn, one gives a full image and the other cuts off the top 1/3. When viewing this gives the impression of a split image, but I may have been wrong to call it split. I guess that it is mis-aligned. If it were only this at fault I would not open it up.
Thanks for the info and contact Leigh. I will have a go before i try to contact him.
Dave....
Thanks for the info and contact Leigh. I will have a go before i try to contact him.
Dave....
fidget
Lemon magnet
Hi Chippy,
It has the two bare red windows and the "spider web" patterned pressure plate with a yellow and blue "Voigtlander Film" sticker/transfer inside. There is a manual frame selection switch on the top housing and as far as I can see, no mechanism to automatically switch the frame when the 4.5 mask (missing) is fitted.
It also has the swing in/out cages for the film spools, large tripod bushes. As far as I can make out, the bellows are leather and the covering is embossed "Voigtlander Bessa" and "Germany". The RF scale is in feet (surprisingly) and the uncoated lens is the 3.5 Heliar. the shutter is the Compur Rapid to 1/400.
Serial number detail sent by PM.
As for covering the red windows, I did. I think that some frames were affected as I wound on to the next frame, with the window uncovered, once or twice in bright light.
It has the two bare red windows and the "spider web" patterned pressure plate with a yellow and blue "Voigtlander Film" sticker/transfer inside. There is a manual frame selection switch on the top housing and as far as I can see, no mechanism to automatically switch the frame when the 4.5 mask (missing) is fitted.
It also has the swing in/out cages for the film spools, large tripod bushes. As far as I can make out, the bellows are leather and the covering is embossed "Voigtlander Bessa" and "Germany". The RF scale is in feet (surprisingly) and the uncoated lens is the 3.5 Heliar. the shutter is the Compur Rapid to 1/400.
Serial number detail sent by PM.
As for covering the red windows, I did. I think that some frames were affected as I wound on to the next frame, with the window uncovered, once or twice in bright light.
fidget
Lemon magnet
Ah! Getting inside.
Maybe I should photograph my progress, mainly so that I can find my way back.
The top housing on mine is not fastened down on the right hand side. Perhaps there's a screw missing. something on the left stops movement. This is where the scale dial is.
I poked the scale, the inner scale just popped off. Looks like this is normally glued on. The outer scale will also come off, but I've left it on for now.
The disc underneath provides the limit to the rotation of the scale disc.
I took it off and turned it. It seemed to jump a tooth on the rack and pinion gearing that moves the lens assy. Checking the infinity focus then showed it to be way off. It was easy to turn it and regain the position on the gearing to get it right again.
Some screws there which look as if they could be to give some fine adjustment to the rotational position of the scale disc.
So far, so good.....
Maybe I should photograph my progress, mainly so that I can find my way back.
The top housing on mine is not fastened down on the right hand side. Perhaps there's a screw missing. something on the left stops movement. This is where the scale dial is.
I poked the scale, the inner scale just popped off. Looks like this is normally glued on. The outer scale will also come off, but I've left it on for now.
The disc underneath provides the limit to the rotation of the scale disc.
I took it off and turned it. It seemed to jump a tooth on the rack and pinion gearing that moves the lens assy. Checking the infinity focus then showed it to be way off. It was easy to turn it and regain the position on the gearing to get it right again.
Some screws there which look as if they could be to give some fine adjustment to the rotational position of the scale disc.
So far, so good.....
Attachments
fidget
Lemon magnet
Hey, a couple more bits off and I'm in!
The top on mine had the screw on the right accessed from inside the film spool chamber, loose or snapped, i can't tell right now. The screw on the inside of the LHS does not need to be taken off to get the top off. The dial and obvious screw on the top give access to the inside.
Looks very nice. TWO mirrors and a double prism! Note the cam following arm acting on the range control knob.
The only cut-outs in the top casing are three under the leatherette giving access to the screws marked. Now to figure out what they do.
Any words of wisdom regarding the cleaning of the silvered mirrors? Could be a very fast way to ruin it if i get it wrong!!!!
Dave....
The top on mine had the screw on the right accessed from inside the film spool chamber, loose or snapped, i can't tell right now. The screw on the inside of the LHS does not need to be taken off to get the top off. The dial and obvious screw on the top give access to the inside.
Looks very nice. TWO mirrors and a double prism! Note the cam following arm acting on the range control knob.
The only cut-outs in the top casing are three under the leatherette giving access to the screws marked. Now to figure out what they do.
Any words of wisdom regarding the cleaning of the silvered mirrors? Could be a very fast way to ruin it if i get it wrong!!!!
Dave....
Attachments
Solinar
Analog Preferred
There is no need to pull of the DOF scale from the center DOF dial. The DOF dial is held in place with a single screw that can be accessed in the film chamber.
The only thing I use on the semi-silvered RF beam splitter is compress air. A newish horse hair artist type paint brush in combination with the compressed air is about as aggressive as I would go. Usually cleaning the RF lenses helps brighten things quite a bit.
The only thing I use on the semi-silvered RF beam splitter is compress air. A newish horse hair artist type paint brush in combination with the compressed air is about as aggressive as I would go. Usually cleaning the RF lenses helps brighten things quite a bit.
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FallisPhoto
Veteran
I can't find anything for free, but found this for $6 -- "Voigtlaender Rangefinder-Bessa -Adjusting the Rangefinder" : http://www.oldtimercameras.com/instruction-manuals/stock/Model.asp?Model=12877&ModelPage=true
fidget
Lemon magnet
I received a message Andrew (Chippy) telling me that this looks to be a very early model, poss one of the earliest in 1936. Many thanks for that.
Dave....
Dave....
Solinar
Analog Preferred
fidget
Lemon magnet
Thanks Guys for your help and suggestions. great shots of the Bessa II, Andrew there's some clear similarities.
I believe that I will be able to sort it out, BUT, there's the strangest thing about the assembly in the picture. It is clamped down with the single screw on the inside left, but nothing on the right. the whole rf assy is able to move forwards and backwards inside the top housing if the single screw is not very tight. I must be seeing this wrong?
I believe that I will be able to sort it out, BUT, there's the strangest thing about the assembly in the picture. It is clamped down with the single screw on the inside left, but nothing on the right. the whole rf assy is able to move forwards and backwards inside the top housing if the single screw is not very tight. I must be seeing this wrong?
Solinar
Analog Preferred
My focus dial was secured with two screws or did you mean the gear assembly to move the long metal arm and front standard?
chippy
foo was here
Hey Andrew what do you supose the big funny looking Zero means between the 20 and 60 feet on the focus scale
fidget
Lemon magnet
By moving forward and backwards, I mean that the entire rf assembly is mounted in a "tray" which then sits on top of the camera body. The only screw holding it is underneath on the left (arrowed). When the rf knob is turned (at least without the top on) the tray moves forward and backwards hinged on the single screw. The top will serve to stop this movement, but is not a close fit, so some backlash may be in the system?
