Larry H-L
Well-known
Received camera and lens on Saturday from Stephen at Cameraquest. Absolutely beautiful in black paint. Thanks Stephen!
The glass:
The Heliar lens is very heavy for its size, the collapse tube functions smoothly, but doesn't move very far at all, less than an inch.
The front element is an odd shape, at first I thought it looked concave because it makes the aperture blades look concave. But it is convex, the coating is so good it is difficult to see the front glass. The aperture blades are near the front similar to the older Elmars.
Aperture settings are in 1/2 stop clicks until after f8, then full stops.
Focus ring is close to the body, no tab. It's going to take a bit of getting used to. Some large fingered folks might not like it. But it is smooth and easy, not like the extra stiff "out of the box" 35mm Pancake 2 . I might try and rig up a cable tie on it.
The box:
I got the kit for the lens. But the body is equally nice. Nice paint. No shutter release lock, much easier for me. The rewind crank is improved, appears to be stronger. The shutter speed dial turns much easier than on the R2a/R3a, I always thought the R2a/R3a dials were stiff. No exposure lock on the back.
The shutter seems to be more well dampened. The "note" is slightly lower without the sharp crisp sound of the R3a.
The pix:
None yet, but I want to compare it to a Summitar. I'm hoping that it has an interesting fingerprint wide open. I'll let you know.
The glass:
The Heliar lens is very heavy for its size, the collapse tube functions smoothly, but doesn't move very far at all, less than an inch.
The front element is an odd shape, at first I thought it looked concave because it makes the aperture blades look concave. But it is convex, the coating is so good it is difficult to see the front glass. The aperture blades are near the front similar to the older Elmars.
Aperture settings are in 1/2 stop clicks until after f8, then full stops.
Focus ring is close to the body, no tab. It's going to take a bit of getting used to. Some large fingered folks might not like it. But it is smooth and easy, not like the extra stiff "out of the box" 35mm Pancake 2 . I might try and rig up a cable tie on it.
The box:
I got the kit for the lens. But the body is equally nice. Nice paint. No shutter release lock, much easier for me. The rewind crank is improved, appears to be stronger. The shutter speed dial turns much easier than on the R2a/R3a, I always thought the R2a/R3a dials were stiff. No exposure lock on the back.
The shutter seems to be more well dampened. The "note" is slightly lower without the sharp crisp sound of the R3a.
The pix:
None yet, but I want to compare it to a Summitar. I'm hoping that it has an interesting fingerprint wide open. I'll let you know.
thafred
silver addict
Me wanna see some picturesmake sure you post as soon as you have em!!
or at least post some of the camera itself
Larry H-L
Well-known
Shots some side by side frames last night, used the Heliar up against some stiff competetion. The other lenses were a Leica collapsible Summitar, (just cleaned by Sherry Krauter) a Taylor, Taylor & Hobson Cooke Amotal, and a new M-Hexanon. All are 50mm f2 lenses. Couldn't find the 50 Nokton, it must buried in the bottom of a bag.
The film is off being processed at Mal-Wart. I should be able to post some images late tonight.
Shot some wide open at f2, but shot most at f4 as it was a cloudy-bright day.
A couple of more things on the lens: it is only marked in meters, (that threw me a bit) and close focus distance is .9 meters.
The film is off being processed at Mal-Wart. I should be able to post some images late tonight.
Shot some wide open at f2, but shot most at f4 as it was a cloudy-bright day.
A couple of more things on the lens: it is only marked in meters, (that threw me a bit) and close focus distance is .9 meters.
Ronald M
Veteran
I`m waiting!
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Yes, I think we're all interested to see this -- I am especially interested in seeing how it compares with the Hexanon. Too bad there's no focusing tab, but that may not be a big deal.
Larry H-L
Well-known
Here you go, some quick scans.
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=620348
Files are large if you click on "larger."
Most interesting thing to me is the color saturation, colors really pop compared to the other lenses, and the lens seems "warmer" than other C/V lenses. I hope that comes across in these web versions. Bokeh is quite good, similar to the M-Hex, better than the Summitar and Cooke IMHO.
I'll try and get some people shots.
http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=620348
Files are large if you click on "larger."
Most interesting thing to me is the color saturation, colors really pop compared to the other lenses, and the lens seems "warmer" than other C/V lenses. I hope that comes across in these web versions. Bokeh is quite good, similar to the M-Hex, better than the Summitar and Cooke IMHO.
I'll try and get some people shots.
thafred
silver addict
WOW! Thumbs up! Thank you for this very interesting compairson, I think quite a lot of people have been waiting to see what the Heliar can do!
On the last series (aparture 2 - 5,6) does the shot wide open exhibit Flare or is it because of lower contrast at 2.0? (did you use a hood?)
How is the sharpness? could you post some Pixel peeping results?
regarding the Body, how do you like the Meter-Readout on the R2M?
Greetings!
Fred
On the last series (aparture 2 - 5,6) does the shot wide open exhibit Flare or is it because of lower contrast at 2.0? (did you use a hood?)
How is the sharpness? could you post some Pixel peeping results?
regarding the Body, how do you like the Meter-Readout on the R2M?
Greetings!
Fred
Larry H-L
Well-known
I don't see any evidence of flare on the film. I think you are seeing lighting variations; it was one of those frustrating days when the sun pops in and out of the clouds. I also shot some pix of bottles near a window, the lens holds detail in the shadows quite well.
Also, take into account that these were scanned on a flatbed scanner, not on a dedicated film scanner. Unsharp mask was off, and no sharpening was applied in PS on the 4-shot panels.
It is interesting to me that as soon as one adds sharpening on any of these lens samples, (like the single shot) "ring bokeh" starts to appear. I guess this is one of the perils of trying to judge lens image quality on the web. Jpeg artifacts don't help either.
Looking at the negs, they are very sharp and crisp, more apparent contrast than any of the other 3 lenses. To me, it compares more to the M-Hexanon than the other two. That makes sense, since the M-Hex and the Heliar both have modern coatings.
I haven't yet put batteries in the body, the tests were shot on an R3a. I'll take a look at the R2m body again today.
Also, take into account that these were scanned on a flatbed scanner, not on a dedicated film scanner. Unsharp mask was off, and no sharpening was applied in PS on the 4-shot panels.
It is interesting to me that as soon as one adds sharpening on any of these lens samples, (like the single shot) "ring bokeh" starts to appear. I guess this is one of the perils of trying to judge lens image quality on the web. Jpeg artifacts don't help either.
Looking at the negs, they are very sharp and crisp, more apparent contrast than any of the other 3 lenses. To me, it compares more to the M-Hexanon than the other two. That makes sense, since the M-Hex and the Heliar both have modern coatings.
I haven't yet put batteries in the body, the tests were shot on an R3a. I'll take a look at the R2m body again today.
KEH
Well-known
Shot with R-D1
Shot with R-D1
Here is a first shot with the 50/2.0 on my R-D1. Seems sharp enough at F8 - more torture tests will have to follow.
Cheers,
Kirk
Shot with R-D1
Here is a first shot with the 50/2.0 on my R-D1. Seems sharp enough at F8 - more torture tests will have to follow.
Cheers,
Kirk
Sonnar2
Well-known
Any new pictures taken with the Heliar 2/50?
My dealer here in Wiesbaden told me that my R3M is to be delivered within the next weeks. I'm tense.
cheers Frank
My dealer here in Wiesbaden told me that my R3M is to be delivered within the next weeks. I'm tense.
cheers Frank
chrisweeks
Member
i agree that the new bessas -- dunno if they're new, exactly -- are very nice in the hand and appear well-made. mr. gandy let me put the new 50 on my mp and i made a few photos whilst having coffee ... not bad ...
Sonnar2
Well-known
If it takes pictures at f/2.0 looking nice like yours, I'm happy. My Takumar 2.4/58 which was probably the fastest Heliar type lens until now (for the Original Pentax 1957) shows nice colors but some unruly bookeh. Compared to the Voigtlander, it has an enlarged front element. In direct comparison to the 2.0/58mmm the later looks better.
cheers Frank
cheers Frank
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anabasis
Established
I finally got a roll through the R2M and classic 50 f2 Heliar. Here's what I find. (No scanner so can't post pics)
Images are very sharp, with excellent color saturation and contrast. Wide open I saw a hint of vignetting when I shot a picture of the sky. I didn't notice any real loss of contrast however. BOKEH is pleasent as well. IQ of the lens is excellent.
Build of the lens is good, but not fantasitic. I am not all that impressed with the ergonomics. I find the aperture ring too thin and since it's not ribbed where the aperture numbers are engraved, it can be difficult to find and twist at eye level. The focusing ring is also very close to the body and since it has no knob, can be difficult to turn as well. I also found the focus ring a bit sticky from about 5 meters to infinity. I am not sure if this is a sample variation or not. It makes really fine focus adustments in this range difficult.
The camera itself is handsome and well built. The meter is easy to use but unless you're dead center in the viewfinder, the superimposed LED readout can disappear on you. The meter does seem accurate enough for most work, and the shutter seems about the same volume as a "T" which is the only thing I can compare it to.
JCA
Images are very sharp, with excellent color saturation and contrast. Wide open I saw a hint of vignetting when I shot a picture of the sky. I didn't notice any real loss of contrast however. BOKEH is pleasent as well. IQ of the lens is excellent.
Build of the lens is good, but not fantasitic. I am not all that impressed with the ergonomics. I find the aperture ring too thin and since it's not ribbed where the aperture numbers are engraved, it can be difficult to find and twist at eye level. The focusing ring is also very close to the body and since it has no knob, can be difficult to turn as well. I also found the focus ring a bit sticky from about 5 meters to infinity. I am not sure if this is a sample variation or not. It makes really fine focus adustments in this range difficult.
The camera itself is handsome and well built. The meter is easy to use but unless you're dead center in the viewfinder, the superimposed LED readout can disappear on you. The meter does seem accurate enough for most work, and the shutter seems about the same volume as a "T" which is the only thing I can compare it to.
JCA
Carrotblog
Established
Comparison of R2M with Ikon?
Comparison of R2M with Ikon?
Larry & Anasbasis,
Have you had a chance to fondle the Zeiss Ikon body too?
If so, could you post your thoughts on how the camera bodies differ between the two?
The lens sounds like it's another superb 50mm addition to the huge choice out there.
xoxoxoxo
Miffy
http://carrotblog.livejournal.com
Comparison of R2M with Ikon?
Larry & Anasbasis,
Have you had a chance to fondle the Zeiss Ikon body too?
If so, could you post your thoughts on how the camera bodies differ between the two?
The lens sounds like it's another superb 50mm addition to the huge choice out there.
xoxoxoxo
Miffy
http://carrotblog.livejournal.com
anabasis
Established
The R2M and T are the only rangefinder's I've used in the past 17 yrs. Never even seen a Zeiss Ikon. Sorry I can't help with any kind of comparison.
JCA
JCA
Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Sonnar2 said:
Dear Frank,
I happen to disagree with you on this one. I love the bokeh produced by my 2.4/58 Takumar. And I just love those two beautiful pictures taken with this lens which you posted on your website:
I hope my new 2.0/50 Heliar will give me pictures like these...
Greetings,
Abbazz
Sonnar2
Well-known
Dear Abbazz, nice to meet another friend of the quite rare Takumar 2.4/58mm SLR lens in a RF forum... Just when compared to the Tak. 2.0/58mm (which is a quasi-Sonnar type) I like the latter more...
Both aren't among the very best with sharpness, but with color rendition. Even under 30x microscope color slides don't show any color fringing. One or another of the newly published pictures of the 2.0/50mm Heliar made by Cosina reminds me to results of my 1950's Apo-Lanthar 4.5/105 (for 6x9 format, but works up to 3x4") which was based on the same formula as the classic Color-Heliar, colors closer to nature like with no other lens.
Many people including the son of Dr. A.W.Tronnier say that the 1950's Color-Heliar wasn't up to high performance standards (maybe due to orders of the Voigtlaender president then), but the more simple Color-Skopar and later designed Apo-Lanthar actually were. Promising as the 3.5/50 Heliar (101 years edition) were, I'm quite sure that Mr. K. has done his homework.
cheers Frank
Both aren't among the very best with sharpness, but with color rendition. Even under 30x microscope color slides don't show any color fringing. One or another of the newly published pictures of the 2.0/50mm Heliar made by Cosina reminds me to results of my 1950's Apo-Lanthar 4.5/105 (for 6x9 format, but works up to 3x4") which was based on the same formula as the classic Color-Heliar, colors closer to nature like with no other lens.
Many people including the son of Dr. A.W.Tronnier say that the 1950's Color-Heliar wasn't up to high performance standards (maybe due to orders of the Voigtlaender president then), but the more simple Color-Skopar and later designed Apo-Lanthar actually were. Promising as the 3.5/50 Heliar (101 years edition) were, I'm quite sure that Mr. K. has done his homework.
cheers Frank
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Abbazz
6x9 and be there!
Sonnar2 said:
I won't discuss the compared virtues of the Sonnar and the Heliar. I love Triplets and Heliars (which are no more than improved Cooke Triplets) because of the rendition of out-of-focus areas, especially wide open. I know that many people find this kind of bokeh a little too disturbing, but I like it!
Sonnar2 said:
I shoot mainly in black and white, and I can assure you that the Takumar 2.4/58mm also provides great results in black and white...
Sonnar2 said:
We should not forget that Voigländer never mounted a Heliar type lens on any of their 35mm cameras. Heliars were considered lenses for medium or large format only, because the resolution was not enough for small format pictures. But IMHO they deliver great results for portrait, even in 35mm, precisely because they are not too sharp lenses and offer that unforgettable "dreamy" rendition.
We will see if CV has managed to improve the max aperture of the lens while offering an acceptable resolution wide-open and retaining the nice bokeh of the classic Heliar...
Abbazz
anabasis
Established
50mm f2 Heliar Classic images
50mm f2 Heliar Classic images
Here are some samples from my 1st roll from the R2m and 50mm Heliar Classic.
The contrast is a bit high but that is my scanner.
Most notable to me is the vignetting at the corners wide open.
JCA
50mm f2 Heliar Classic images
Here are some samples from my 1st roll from the R2m and 50mm Heliar Classic.
The contrast is a bit high but that is my scanner.
Most notable to me is the vignetting at the corners wide open.
JCA
Attachments
Sonnar2
Well-known
Thanks. The classic Apo-Lanthar (last Voigtlaender version of the Heliar) was famous for the deepness of colors and wasn't a low contrast lens either. The 3rd shot was also taken wide-open?