scottyb70
Well-known
I bought my first folder on EBAY from a trusted and respectable person (I was hoping) I will keep their name private due to respect.
Here is the story.
I bought a camera with buy it now and it was a very fair amount that I paid for this folder. I did not bargain or anything. I recieved the camera and it wasn't the one that was listed on EBAY. I checked the pictures of the camera on ebay and the serial numbers didn't match on the lens. I sent the person an email stating the situation. They told me that the reason they sent me the one I have is because it is in better condition than the one listed on ebay. Why didn't they tell me this in before they sent it out. I was going back and forth on emails and requested the one that was listed. I was very polite and patient. They told me to keep the one I have it is just like the one that was shown on the ebay auction. I feel the one on ebay is a little better. I was comparing the two by looking at the pictures of the auction (only 2 left) the rest were deleted.
Now I feel if I send this one back will the one that I should have got be worse. After admitting he sent me the wrong one he will only give me credit if the camera he sent me was his. This was the second time I ever bought a folder and how could I have one similar to this one, it is kinda of a rare camera.
What should I do, ask for a partial credit and leave at that? The camera was in the 350-400 area.
If he did this to me, just picture who else he did this to. That is probably why he tries to delete the pictures right after auction.
Am I wrong here?
I trusted this person that is why I had no problem with the buy it now.
Any advise would be appreciated.
Here is the story.
I bought a camera with buy it now and it was a very fair amount that I paid for this folder. I did not bargain or anything. I recieved the camera and it wasn't the one that was listed on EBAY. I checked the pictures of the camera on ebay and the serial numbers didn't match on the lens. I sent the person an email stating the situation. They told me that the reason they sent me the one I have is because it is in better condition than the one listed on ebay. Why didn't they tell me this in before they sent it out. I was going back and forth on emails and requested the one that was listed. I was very polite and patient. They told me to keep the one I have it is just like the one that was shown on the ebay auction. I feel the one on ebay is a little better. I was comparing the two by looking at the pictures of the auction (only 2 left) the rest were deleted.
Now I feel if I send this one back will the one that I should have got be worse. After admitting he sent me the wrong one he will only give me credit if the camera he sent me was his. This was the second time I ever bought a folder and how could I have one similar to this one, it is kinda of a rare camera.
What should I do, ask for a partial credit and leave at that? The camera was in the 350-400 area.
If he did this to me, just picture who else he did this to. That is probably why he tries to delete the pictures right after auction.
Am I wrong here?
I trusted this person that is why I had no problem with the buy it now.
Any advise would be appreciated.
david b
film shooter
Remember what it said when you hit the buy it now?
It is a legally binding contract and the seller did not keep up his end of that contract.
If you really want the one in the photo, get it.
Or just send the one he sent you, back to him.
Look for another one.
It is a legally binding contract and the seller did not keep up his end of that contract.
If you really want the one in the photo, get it.
Or just send the one he sent you, back to him.
Look for another one.
scottyb70
Well-known
The auction started at 10.00 and had a buy it now for 335.00.
tripod
Well-known
What make and model of folder was it? Why do you think the one pictured was better than the one you got? Was it just cosmetics, or different specs (like lens type)?
colyn
ישו משיח
If the one you got is in good working and cosmetic condition why not just keep it.
Granted the seller pulled a switch but you take a chance of getting one in lesser condition if you insist on trading..
Granted the seller pulled a switch but you take a chance of getting one in lesser condition if you insist on trading..
peterm1
Veteran
Legally of course, you are in the right. He has not delivered the camera you have contracted to buy and should have been up front with you about this before if for some reason he was unable to deliver on the contract - maybe the shop boy sent the camera you bought to someone else. Who knows but he should have been square with you.
If it truly was a mistake and if your statement is correct...."After admitting he sent me the wrong one he will only give me credit if the camera he sent me was his. " then I would send him another email stating the serial number of the camera you bought and maybe a photo of it, asking him to acknowledge it is the camera he sent you then seek confirmation that he will credit you or send the camera you asked for. This suggests that it could be a mix up, and he had more than one camera and sent you the wrong one by mistake. In which case he should be keen to rectify the error in a way that leaves you happy with the outcome. If I were you I might also indicate that you will report him to eBay if he reneges. Of course if he is a shonky dealer there is a risk that he will renege and take that risk. But hopefully not.
Alternatively you could ask him to send you all the photos of the eBay camera so you can put your mind at rest regarding condition.
eBay is a bit like the wild west and you are forced to take people more or less on trust. I have one or two experiences where products have turned up not exactly as described - usually by omission of course and my imagination has wrongly filled in the blanks. But these have all been inexpensive items and in each case I have put it down to experience. I am more careful when buying anything expensive to (a) deal with people with a high number of transactions and a high approval rating and (b) for preference deal with stores who I have seen on the bay before and who I there have reason to believe are genuine. If I break these "rules" I know I may be disappointed.
If it truly was a mistake and if your statement is correct...."After admitting he sent me the wrong one he will only give me credit if the camera he sent me was his. " then I would send him another email stating the serial number of the camera you bought and maybe a photo of it, asking him to acknowledge it is the camera he sent you then seek confirmation that he will credit you or send the camera you asked for. This suggests that it could be a mix up, and he had more than one camera and sent you the wrong one by mistake. In which case he should be keen to rectify the error in a way that leaves you happy with the outcome. If I were you I might also indicate that you will report him to eBay if he reneges. Of course if he is a shonky dealer there is a risk that he will renege and take that risk. But hopefully not.
Alternatively you could ask him to send you all the photos of the eBay camera so you can put your mind at rest regarding condition.
eBay is a bit like the wild west and you are forced to take people more or less on trust. I have one or two experiences where products have turned up not exactly as described - usually by omission of course and my imagination has wrongly filled in the blanks. But these have all been inexpensive items and in each case I have put it down to experience. I am more careful when buying anything expensive to (a) deal with people with a high number of transactions and a high approval rating and (b) for preference deal with stores who I have seen on the bay before and who I there have reason to believe are genuine. If I break these "rules" I know I may be disappointed.
scottyb70
Well-known
I really didn't mean rare. It is a certo 6 and I would say cosmetics has a lot to do with it that is why I didn't hesitate about paying for what he was asking. I felt the one pictured was very clean like stated. I am not looking for mint. I know it is a very old camera.
I have a question about the focusing. When looking through the rangefinder the closest I can get the camera to an object is about 2-3 feet (>1 meter) before the lens focuses properly. Is this right? I can't ask the seller about this because I have lost my trust.
The main reason why it bugs me is because this person will say I can help you, I am the best,Trust Me, no problems, blah blah. Had articles about him, etc.
Who else do you think he could have done this to besides me?
(a) deal with people with a high number of transactions and a high approval rating and (b) for preference deal with stores who I have seen on the bay before and who I there have reason to believe are genuine. If I break these "rules" I know I may be disappointed.
I did this and guess you still have to be careful.
Kind of makes me want to start back into digital now.
I have a question about the focusing. When looking through the rangefinder the closest I can get the camera to an object is about 2-3 feet (>1 meter) before the lens focuses properly. Is this right? I can't ask the seller about this because I have lost my trust.
The main reason why it bugs me is because this person will say I can help you, I am the best,Trust Me, no problems, blah blah. Had articles about him, etc.
Who else do you think he could have done this to besides me?
(a) deal with people with a high number of transactions and a high approval rating and (b) for preference deal with stores who I have seen on the bay before and who I there have reason to believe are genuine. If I break these "rules" I know I may be disappointed.
I did this and guess you still have to be careful.
Kind of makes me want to start back into digital now.
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scottyb70
Well-known
hard to find manual
dnk512
Well-known
Rangefinders from that era focus from 3 feet, or 5 feet to infinity. You bought a Certo 6 from Certo6 
. Lots of folks are happy with his work, but some folks are not so happy. If the camera you have is not working send it back for repair. If the cosmetics are not up to par with his images on e-bay ask for a fair refund on the difference. The former he will honor, the later.... not sure.
. Lots of folks are happy with his work, but some folks are not so happy. If the camera you have is not working send it back for repair. If the cosmetics are not up to par with his images on e-bay ask for a fair refund on the difference. The former he will honor, the later.... not sure.
imajypsee
no expiration date
I think you're in the right
I think you're in the right
to expect to get the merchandise you paid for. But, I don't think you will.
I've had a few exchanges with certo6 and here's what I think about him:
* he's starting to believe his own press (which he himself writes) and, apparently, so did you.... his feedback rating would seem like it makes sense to believe him, so I can't see why you should be faulted for trusting him.
* he once posted a Weltur for auction and the camera was a Weltax; when I pointed that out to him he just blew it off....
* I've tried to buy from him directly because I get tired of the bidding process and he never answers my emails regarding the specific camera I want (and, why should he since he can sell it on ebay for astronomical prices?)
* his "success" in his cornering the niche market on folders on ebay has got the better of him and, I'm guessing here, he's overwhelmed and can't keep up. OTOH, he's making his money while the sun shines.
Anyhow, I'd just learn how to use the camera and write off certo6. You won't win since he clearly states that he doesn't do refunds and he seems to suspect your camera isn't really the one he shipped you (if I'm reading your posts correctly) so he's going to resist your efforts at redress.
Regarding a manual, here's a link I found on the forum here:
http://www.certo6.com/images/certo6instrux/CertoSixInstructions.pdf
Good luck,
Mary in Florida
I think you're in the right
to expect to get the merchandise you paid for. But, I don't think you will.
I've had a few exchanges with certo6 and here's what I think about him:
* he's starting to believe his own press (which he himself writes) and, apparently, so did you.... his feedback rating would seem like it makes sense to believe him, so I can't see why you should be faulted for trusting him.
* he once posted a Weltur for auction and the camera was a Weltax; when I pointed that out to him he just blew it off....
* I've tried to buy from him directly because I get tired of the bidding process and he never answers my emails regarding the specific camera I want (and, why should he since he can sell it on ebay for astronomical prices?)
* his "success" in his cornering the niche market on folders on ebay has got the better of him and, I'm guessing here, he's overwhelmed and can't keep up. OTOH, he's making his money while the sun shines.
Anyhow, I'd just learn how to use the camera and write off certo6. You won't win since he clearly states that he doesn't do refunds and he seems to suspect your camera isn't really the one he shipped you (if I'm reading your posts correctly) so he's going to resist your efforts at redress.
Regarding a manual, here's a link I found on the forum here:
http://www.certo6.com/images/certo6instrux/CertoSixInstructions.pdf
Good luck,
Mary in Florida
drewbarb
picnic like it's 1999
Is it possible that although the one pictured might have looked better cosmetically, but the one he sent you is functionally in better condition? Perhaps that the basis for his claim.
Regardless, you do have every right to expect to receive what you think you are paying for, and the seller is obligated to fix the situation to your satisfaction.
As for the focus distance, 2-3 feet sounds about right- but you'd have to look up the manufacturer's specifications to find the exact closest coupled-focus distance.
Regardless, you do have every right to expect to receive what you think you are paying for, and the seller is obligated to fix the situation to your satisfaction.
As for the focus distance, 2-3 feet sounds about right- but you'd have to look up the manufacturer's specifications to find the exact closest coupled-focus distance.
whitecat
Lone Range(find)er
IF.... the seller was Certo 6 I would be careful. His prices are high and I already had to send one camera back after a CLA since It would not fire. It took months to return. I also bought a filter for $30.00 and never got it. When I complained, he sent another but made it sound like I was cheating him.
I have had 3 Certo's. An excellent one is worth no more than $200.00- $250.00. For this price, the rangefinder should be clear and the distance gauge on top should work. For questions about the camera, PM me. If it were me, I would have sent it back.
I have had 3 Certo's. An excellent one is worth no more than $200.00- $250.00. For this price, the rangefinder should be clear and the distance gauge on top should work. For questions about the camera, PM me. If it were me, I would have sent it back.
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Malcolm_J
Member
You should also post this query on the Qustions and Answers forum on eBay. A lot of experienced sellers visit that regularly and would give sound advice.
Read carefully the conditions presented on the sale. Genuine sellers state "this is the item you will get". If that was not the case here then that weakens your argument.
The problem with any commercial transaction is that if it goes well you take it for granted but if it goes badly it really sours you. I have been through similar experiences to yourself (although not for such expensive items) so that has made me more careful
Also consider whether the item you got is good value and works well. If that is the case, then my advice is;just walk away from it and enjoy your new camera; I have found with eBay (and life in general) that there is rarely much to be gained by nursing a grievence if things have worked out basically OK.
You do not have to leave feedback, after all.
Read carefully the conditions presented on the sale. Genuine sellers state "this is the item you will get". If that was not the case here then that weakens your argument.
The problem with any commercial transaction is that if it goes well you take it for granted but if it goes badly it really sours you. I have been through similar experiences to yourself (although not for such expensive items) so that has made me more careful
Also consider whether the item you got is good value and works well. If that is the case, then my advice is;just walk away from it and enjoy your new camera; I have found with eBay (and life in general) that there is rarely much to be gained by nursing a grievence if things have worked out basically OK.
You do not have to leave feedback, after all.
Steve Bellayr
Veteran
It is not a question as to whether the items workds well or not. Rather, it is one of "bait and switch" a transaction that is illegal. Obviously, the buyer desired the one that was shown on ther internet photo. Is is possible that he wanted it because of the serial number? There are instances where that was a factor...one was listed here with an incredibly unusual serial number. Probably not. Nevertheless, if a photo is presented then it should be of the item auctioned. I recall that more than once on this forum that such an issue was called into question. I'd like to thank the original poster for calling this to our attention and all others that added comments. This certainly is an issue that is important to all of us. By reading posters coomments I have discovered and made wonderful purchases. Should the original poster desire he can post comments on photo.net & resellerratings.com I hope that this camera works out for you as folders of that age are difficult to come by.
Thardy
Veteran
I'd send it back, if he takes it. Of all the cameras I have, the 120 folder I bought last year is the only one that disappoints. I don't think you'll be missing anything.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
dnk512 said:Rangefinders from that era focus from 3 feet, or 5 feet to infinity. You bought a Certo 6 from Certo6
The former he will honor sometimes. I've run into a few folks who were not at all happy with him.
FallisPhoto
Veteran
scottyb70 said:
Then why did you give him positive feedback? Yeah, I found the auction on ebay.
remegius
Well-known
Interesting. I just received and Isolette II from seller in question, and it arrived precisely as I ordered. Of course, I didn't get it from him on eBay, nor would I. I simply ordered it from him off his web site, after having communicated my desires (I wanted the Isolette with the red bellows). The camera arrived looking for all intents and purposes as it did when it was new. I couldn't be more pleased.
Cheers...
Cheers...
George Bonanno
Well-known
Solida III
Solida III
Jurgen screwed me "twice" on a CLA.
Never again !!!
Solida III
Jurgen screwed me "twice" on a CLA.
Never again !!!
underbyte
Established
In 2007, I sent him 2 emails to ask about having an Isolette II CLA'd. He never responded. I would be hesitant to deal with him.