Bouncing flash?

S

st3ph3nm

Guest
Hi guys,

In a couple of weeks I'll be taking some photos of a friend's martial arts class. He's just started teaching younger kids. Anyhoo, the place has a relatively low ceiling for this kind of thing, which is good, because it also has relatively low lighting, and I'm going to have to use flash more than I'd like. So I want to bounce it. Is there a good rule of thumb for setting aperture to get manual bounce flash right? The one time I tried it I underexposed horribly!

(I'll have to 'fess up here, the camera in question is a Pentax ME-Super, but you guys I trust more than anyone!)

Cheers,
Steve
 
The distance from camera to ceiling plus ceiling to subject NOT camera to subject.

Thats all there is to it :)
 
Read the manual of the flash carefully. Shoot in that room a few 12-frame rolls all-manually using the directions from the manual, have the shots developed and check the results of your experimenting just to get the hang of your flash.

Decide what kind of effect you ant in the shots. Martial arts can be pretty fast movements so using a slow shutter speed will give you more-or-less blurred kids. A fast shutter speed might conflict with the flash's synchro speed. You'll have to experiment a bit beforehand to get good results on the training day.
 
Steve, are you using a full manual flash, a flash with auto settings, or a dedicated setup? If it's dedicated just blast it, for auto flashes, just match the aperture to the flash's recommendations and ensure your shutter speed is set to the proper sync speeds. For full manual, no idea on bouncing 'em... I use a Metz 32Mz2 for nearly all my cameras.

Alvin
 
There are just so many techniques. I have Nikon F301 and a Metz 32-MZ2, always shoot at 1/30 or 1/60, bounced and the flash at 1/2 or 1/3 of the film's ISO value. Works beautifully!
Another idea is making your own bounce-card, see http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-82.html. I've made a silver one out of a coated cardboard juice container. It looks silly, but works great.
 
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You have not told us what flash your using...If it were me
I would use my Vivitar 283 in the bounce mode. It has a
exposure confirmation light on the back. A quick off camera
test will tell you what Fstop setting to use. I would also use
NIMH batteries for quick recycling time..
Oops...Just saw your said you want to use a manual flash...
If you do happen to guess the right exposure for someone
in the middle of the room, a subject closer will be overexposed
and one further away will be underexposed...
You will have to do the old GN calculation to get what Fstop
to use and just hope for the best. Then if you use a zoom
with variable aperature that will throw off your calculations
too..I bet those places have a lot of mirrors, if possible you
need to shoot so you dont get the flashlight reflected back
at you...
 
Socke said:
The distance from camera to ceiling plus ceiling to subject NOT camera to subject.

Thats all there is to it :)
Click to expand...

True, but also watch the color of the ceiling as well as its reflectivity. You may need to open up 1/2 to 1 stop as it may not reflect well. Also, if the ceiling has a distinct color, that probably will show up in the photos, especially as the uniforms are usually white.

Best advice so far was to go there and take some practice rolls trying different settings and different bounce (ceiling vs bounce card) and keep good notes.

It really isn't that hard, so try it and show us some of the results.
 
Thinking about all of the arguments and the fact that a flash may distract the combatants and lead to injury, wouldn't it be better to set up some aditional lighting?
 
another Vote for the Vivitar 283! Makes bouncing easy, as the sensor head remains pointed at the subject and computes the flash output. Be Careful though: the original 283's were for mechanical cameras and will blow out your ME electronics. The later ones went to new circuit that did not put the entire capacitor output through the camera.
 
Use either a flash with Auto settings like a Vivitar 283/285, or use a flash meter with a manual flash. Take a flash reading off the ceiling from where the combatants will be, and use the meter recommended f-stop setting.
 
I second what Frank proposed. I always use a Vivitar 285 or 283. When I bounce, I use a Stfen Omnibounce. It makes a huge difference.

Check with the dojo if they allow flash though because it affects concentration a lot. If not, flood lights are the only way o go.
 
Another alternative to flash is to re-enact the scenes you want to photograph using the optimal flash set-up. That way the participants know what to expect and you get the quality that you want.

-Paul
 
Brian Sweeney said:
another Vote for the Vivitar 283! Makes bouncing easy, as the sensor head remains pointed at the subject and computes the flash output. Be Careful though: the original 283's were for mechanical cameras and will blow out your ME electronics. The later ones went to new circuit that did not put the entire capacitor output through the camera.
Click to expand...

Brian, do you have any idea what year the Vivitar 283 changed it's circuitry? I have three of them and I've been using then with my digital cameras for several years without a problem.

Two of my 283's are at least 25 years old and quite possibly older. They are - without question - one of the most outstanding Vivitar products ever made. I also have a 265 that dates to 1979 and I used it just last night on my Iskra-2.

Walker
 
Thanks for the help, guys.

The flash I have is an old Sunpak (haven't got it handy for a part number) and I have a mount so I can bounce it. It's all manual, though. The Vivitar sounds like a good idea, I'll have a hunt over the next week or so. Unfortunately, timing is such that there's no opportunity to do a test roll. I *am* hoping to have my Olympus XA up and running again in time to use that as well, so when I do post some shots they won't all be OT! :)

The ceiling is white, IIRC, and no higher than 9 feet or so. Fortunately, being a limited space, the walls have padding rather than mirrors! These guys do a lot of pretty hard wrestling.

Again, thanks, I'll be sure to post results.

Cheers,
Steve
 
I forgot to mention that I have shot a couple of tournaments there in the past, but had trouble getting a decent location to shoot from. In this case, that won't be an issue, fortunately. I'll have to go back over my notes to see what I did for flash values back then...

Cheers,
Steve
 
st3ph3nm said:
The flash I have is an old Sunpak (haven't got it handy for a part number) and I have a mount so I can bounce it. It's all manual, though. The ceiling is white, IIRC, and no higher than 9 feet or so. Cheers, Steve
Click to expand...

Then Socke's directions should be followed. i.e.; flash to ceiling distance (measured to the ceiling spot the falsh is directed toward) and then add ceiling to subject distance. That figure will tell you the total distance the flash must travel and you can use that to figure your exposure.

Good luck and please post some pictures.

Walker
 
Brian Sweeney said:
another Vote for the Vivitar 283! Makes bouncing easy, as the sensor head remains pointed at the subject and computes the flash output. Be Careful though: the original 283's were for mechanical cameras and will blow out your ME electronics. The later ones went to new circuit that did not put the entire capacitor output through the camera.
Click to expand...
If your cam has a hotshoe, you can use a Wein Safesync regulator between the shoe and the flash. I use an old Vivitar 285 on my digicams with the Wein. The Wein unit also has an on-board pc adapter.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/con...hs=wein+safesync+hot+shoe&image.x=0&image.y=0

Gene
 
I think you'll need to add more exposure than what is indicated by adding the flash/ceiling distance to ceiling/subject distance. The White ceiling will greatly diffuse the light compared to the same distance travelled straight ahead through air, which is what the simple adding of distances will do. I'd add at least 1 more stop, probably 2. I hope you're not shooting slides! If you could just get yourself (or borrow) a flashmeter, you would know precisely what f-stop to use.
 
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