Bill Pierce
Well-known
It was one of those weeks. A mud slide made it difficult to get to the West Coast airport. Weather canceled the return trip from the East Coast. But that was not the worst. The RAID system that I use to store digital images and scanned film images was so annoyed at having to go back to work when I finally returned that it crashed, discs damaged and unreadable. That’s right; every saved digital image and scan gone. But that’s OK. I have 2 back ups on large hard discs and some particular favorites backed up yet again on smaller SSD’s. The problem wasn’t losing images; it was duplicating the back ups to replace the vanished images. I have a fairly fast system, and it took almost 2 days to produce another digital master and download it into Lightroom catalogs. The lesson is obvious - BACK UP, BACK UP, BACK UP. I’ve probably said that along with PRINT, PRINT, PRINT enough times to annoy everybody on the forum. But, it turns out it really is true. I’ve never really had a big crash like this one before, and I thought what would it be like for a photographer who had no back up to see an entire lifetime of work disappear.
ptpdprinter
Veteran
Some will argue that this is the perfect reason for shooting film, but I lost all of my early negatives in a move. With film, you don't really have a backup, unless you want to scan your negatives. My loss occurred prior to scanners, so it wasn't an option. I echo the mantra PRINT, PRINT, PRINT.
Godfrey
somewhat colored
Far more of my film images have been lost to time than any of my digital images to hard drive failures. But there have been losses on both sides.
So print AND backup, both film and digital. I scan all my film images and print all my digital images.
G
So print AND backup, both film and digital. I scan all my film images and print all my digital images.
G
charjohncarter
Veteran
I'm not very digital, but I do do work for a theater in my town. And that is all digital. I have everything backed up. But even though these images are not what I would really want to keep; I'm still struggling with how to back them up for the people that care about them.
Would the cloud (which I don't even know what it is) be a place along with a separate remote hard drive be the way?
Glad you were backed up. But how do you do the 3x back up?
Would the cloud (which I don't even know what it is) be a place along with a separate remote hard drive be the way?
Glad you were backed up. But how do you do the 3x back up?
K14
Well-known
4x- Negative/Scan/Print/Cloud
Bill Pierce
Well-known
If you have an auxiliary external hard disc or SSD, copy the files that you want to keep, not just the digital theatre pictures, but anything else that is an important digital record. Now, since all things can fail (and there will also be some decay in the information on a hard disc over time) do it all over again on another hard disc. Then, should one fail, you still have all your records on the other disc. Now, if you are worried about losing everything in a house fire, earthquake or theft, e.t.c., make a third copy and store it off site at a friend's house. The nice thing about digital is a digital copy is essentially identical to the original and easy to make, sadly something we can’t say about copy negs.
Dogman
Veteran
Agree on backing up.
I lost all digital files when my first computer, a cheap PC, crashed. It wasn't the disaster it could have been because at that time I was shooting film and my digital photos were scans of my film...I still had the original slides and negatives. And, since it was my first home computer, I didn't really have anything important saved. The computer was a novelty at the time.
Years later, with a Mac, a power surge knocked out my Time Machine hard drive and the separate hard drive with all my photo backup but my computer hard drive (and all my photos) survived.
Today, I keep photo backups on several separate portable hard drives. I periodically add hard drives. I use several of these small drives because I've had a couple of them fail in the past. I hope to start using SSDs if prices come down enough. This is not a totally secure system, however. All drives are stored at home except for one kept in a bank box, however, that one has not been kept updated. I do take along one or two up to date drives when going away for a few days but, even so, there's no guarantee.
EDIT: Forgot to add that I also print. A lot. Not every shot is worth printing at the time but when I download my Raw files I mark those I want to print and develop them accordingly. I do a 6x9 inch image on 8.5x11 inch cotton rag paper and file it in archival boxes. Later on, I might make larger prints of selected shots, however, large prints can be a hassle. There's only so much space for display or storage.
I lost all digital files when my first computer, a cheap PC, crashed. It wasn't the disaster it could have been because at that time I was shooting film and my digital photos were scans of my film...I still had the original slides and negatives. And, since it was my first home computer, I didn't really have anything important saved. The computer was a novelty at the time.
Years later, with a Mac, a power surge knocked out my Time Machine hard drive and the separate hard drive with all my photo backup but my computer hard drive (and all my photos) survived.
Today, I keep photo backups on several separate portable hard drives. I periodically add hard drives. I use several of these small drives because I've had a couple of them fail in the past. I hope to start using SSDs if prices come down enough. This is not a totally secure system, however. All drives are stored at home except for one kept in a bank box, however, that one has not been kept updated. I do take along one or two up to date drives when going away for a few days but, even so, there's no guarantee.
EDIT: Forgot to add that I also print. A lot. Not every shot is worth printing at the time but when I download my Raw files I mark those I want to print and develop them accordingly. I do a 6x9 inch image on 8.5x11 inch cotton rag paper and file it in archival boxes. Later on, I might make larger prints of selected shots, however, large prints can be a hassle. There's only so much space for display or storage.
Michael Markey
Veteran
Sorry to hear that .
I print the stuff I want to keep .
I print the stuff I want to keep .
ColSebastianMoran
( IRL Richard Karash )
Yes backup. Here's my strategy:
- Photo work, raws and LR catalog on an external hard disk
- Two more of the same external hard disks, both are backups, updated monthly
- One in a locked file cabinet, one at the bank in a safe deposit box
- Each month I swap the bank vs. file cabinet backups
- If main ext disk fails, I just toss it and switch to using one of the backups
For backup on Mac, Carbon Copy Cloner or Synchronize Pro X
This gives me protection, with one month at risk, for disk failure, fire, theft, etc.
Good shooting, everyone!
- Photo work, raws and LR catalog on an external hard disk
- Two more of the same external hard disks, both are backups, updated monthly
- One in a locked file cabinet, one at the bank in a safe deposit box
- Each month I swap the bank vs. file cabinet backups
- If main ext disk fails, I just toss it and switch to using one of the backups
For backup on Mac, Carbon Copy Cloner or Synchronize Pro X
This gives me protection, with one month at risk, for disk failure, fire, theft, etc.
Good shooting, everyone!
willie_901
Veteran
Congratulations on investing the time, money and effort to protect your image archives.
It is slow and annoying to restore GBs of files. Storage of all kinds gets faster every year. Its also true that image file sizes grow as well.
The only thing worse than a 48 restoration delay is having nothing to restore.
I agree that printing is an important strategy. Physical media (negatives, transparencies and prints) are also vulnerable, but in a completely different context. I suspect physical media are less susceptible to tragic, unrecoverable loss. But that doesn't mean to can't happen.
It is slow and annoying to restore GBs of files. Storage of all kinds gets faster every year. Its also true that image file sizes grow as well.
The only thing worse than a 48 restoration delay is having nothing to restore.
I agree that printing is an important strategy. Physical media (negatives, transparencies and prints) are also vulnerable, but in a completely different context. I suspect physical media are less susceptible to tragic, unrecoverable loss. But that doesn't mean to can't happen.
willie_901
Veteran
Cloud solutions are becoming more practical.
In some cases you can send an external drive to the cloud service and they will do the back up and, or recovery at an additional cost.
I happen to be an Amazon Prime customer. At the moment Prime offers unlimited cloud back up of JPEG and raw files at no additional cost. I only back up my Lightroom Library to Amazon's Cloud. A few months ago I was able to switch to 50 Mbps download and upload internet speeds with no price increase. My computer has a wired connection to the internet router so those speeds are useful. Of course, recovering my ~300 Gb of Lightroom Library images and Catalog from the cloud would take a long time, but eventually I'd have them.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
First time I read about loosing RAID storage like this. Was it real RAID or something else?
Like Windows controlled mirroring?
With 6TB HDD at affordable cost as of now, most up to date back up solution is to have two external 6TB HDD. One hot, one cold. And keep them synchronized.
Cloud is good for share, storage option for processed, master files. Acts as DR site as well.
I print from files about three times per week, to keep inks circulating. And I do darkroom prints, but I'm getting asked for good ones I made and I mail them away. Even if someone will just say they like my print, I often put it in envelop. Finishing my first album as the gift
Here is Bu, Bu, Bu song with some interpretation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7VOrl7rWFk&feature=youtu.be&t=2m39s
Like Windows controlled mirroring?
With 6TB HDD at affordable cost as of now, most up to date back up solution is to have two external 6TB HDD. One hot, one cold. And keep them synchronized.
Cloud is good for share, storage option for processed, master files. Acts as DR site as well.
I print from files about three times per week, to keep inks circulating. And I do darkroom prints, but I'm getting asked for good ones I made and I mail them away. Even if someone will just say they like my print, I often put it in envelop. Finishing my first album as the gift
Here is Bu, Bu, Bu song with some interpretation:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7VOrl7rWFk&feature=youtu.be&t=2m39s
kshapero
South Florida Man
Lost everything once a while back. Had Carbonite. took 4 days to restore but everything was jumbled. What a hassle. Now I backup to the cloud (Microsoft One Drive) and an extra physical hard drive.
Steevo
Established
Mirror Drive Option
Mirror Drive Option
A couple years ago, I had a catastrophic hard drive crash. I religiously make back ups, but took forever to reinstall, etc. Since then, I now keep all those back ups, but also have created an alternate "mirror" copy of my main hard drive. It there is another crash, I can reinstall the hard drive and be up an running in an hour. Anything that is not on the reinstalled drive I can copy over from one of the other back ups. Another layer of security, and reduces the hassle of reinstalling.
Lessons learned:
1. Have multiple back ups.
2. Create a copy of your full hard drive.
3. Keep them up to date.
4. Use a battery backup and power surge device.
5. Use a SSD as your main drive.
Cheers.
SW
Mirror Drive Option
A couple years ago, I had a catastrophic hard drive crash. I religiously make back ups, but took forever to reinstall, etc. Since then, I now keep all those back ups, but also have created an alternate "mirror" copy of my main hard drive. It there is another crash, I can reinstall the hard drive and be up an running in an hour. Anything that is not on the reinstalled drive I can copy over from one of the other back ups. Another layer of security, and reduces the hassle of reinstalling.
Lessons learned:
1. Have multiple back ups.
2. Create a copy of your full hard drive.
3. Keep them up to date.
4. Use a battery backup and power surge device.
5. Use a SSD as your main drive.
Cheers.
SW
charjohncarter
Veteran
Thanks, I have two external drives that I've never used so now is a good time.
charjohncarter
Veteran
Thanks, I have Amazon Prime too. so along with my external drives, my computer back up drive, a bunch of thumb drives, negatives and Amazon I should be OK.
pluton
Well-known
Multiple drive enclosures, be they RAID or other, have their own particular vulnerability: An electrical problem with the power supply or controlling board can damage all the drives at the same time.
The preceding statement justifies my use of external drives, each in its own separate enclosure. I've had the drives go bad, and had the enclosures go bad over the long haul. Easy to swap one into the other.
The preceding statement justifies my use of external drives, each in its own separate enclosure. I've had the drives go bad, and had the enclosures go bad over the long haul. Easy to swap one into the other.
Pioneer
Veteran
With all the horror stories of hard drives going bad and backups being lost or difficult to restore I am astounded that people still put up with digital. Those of you working professionally probably have no choice but the rest of us certainly do.
I am quite aware that negatives and even prints are subject to damage but all they require is decent storage conditions.
On the other hand digital files require continual updating, purchase of new equipment and software, huge amounts of your time and a fear of power bumps etc. (which happen relatively frequently where I live.)
Convenience appears to be worth a lot, especially to the digital hardware and software companies. It sometimes feels a bit like a confidence game to me.
Oh, and by the way. If the sun burps wrong someday you are out of luck even if you spent hundreds of thousands of your hard earned dollars on all the latest gadgets and followed all the instructions exactly right.
Keep printing. Instead of spending all of your money on the newest digital gadgets spend it on ink and paper instead. Devote more of your precious time to printing your work the way you would like it done. At least that has a chance of surviving for a while and may be the only real record of what you have done when it is all said and done. Make two or three prints instead of one. Send them around like Ko Fe so others are keeping them as well. The rest of this is just a great way to get you to spend your money and make Gates and the rest rich.
Sorry...end of rant.
I am quite aware that negatives and even prints are subject to damage but all they require is decent storage conditions.
On the other hand digital files require continual updating, purchase of new equipment and software, huge amounts of your time and a fear of power bumps etc. (which happen relatively frequently where I live.)
Convenience appears to be worth a lot, especially to the digital hardware and software companies. It sometimes feels a bit like a confidence game to me.
Oh, and by the way. If the sun burps wrong someday you are out of luck even if you spent hundreds of thousands of your hard earned dollars on all the latest gadgets and followed all the instructions exactly right.
Keep printing. Instead of spending all of your money on the newest digital gadgets spend it on ink and paper instead. Devote more of your precious time to printing your work the way you would like it done. At least that has a chance of surviving for a while and may be the only real record of what you have done when it is all said and done. Make two or three prints instead of one. Send them around like Ko Fe so others are keeping them as well. The rest of this is just a great way to get you to spend your money and make Gates and the rest rich.
Sorry...end of rant.
robert blu
quiet photographer
robert blu
quiet photographer
For my digitals (and my wife's) I do multiple back up on two external hard disk which I alternate each week, the one not in use is stored in a different place (I'm afraid someone could steal it with all my files maybe just because he needed a cheap HD!)
Moreover I make a weekly back up of the photo files on a third HD (included LR catalog and additional necessary files ).
Old HDs have to be substituted by new ones.
And I print a lot...
robert
Moreover I make a weekly back up of the photo files on a third HD (included LR catalog and additional necessary files ).
Old HDs have to be substituted by new ones.
And I print a lot...
robert