Camera Decision - Need Advice, Please!

1750Shooter

1750Shooter

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I've got a housefull of Nikons (EM, 2xFA, 2xF2AS, 3xFE, FM3a, & 3xF4), but lately I've been thinking about buying a rangefinder - I've never used one much. I was thinking about either an M5 w/35mm or a Bessa R3M w/40mm. I know they are somewhat different, but am interested in working with a single focal length lens & a rather simple camera. If it matters, my budget is around $2K. And, yes, I know no one likes the M5, but I've handled one & I like the feel. Thanks for any input.
 
If you like the feel of the M5, and can find one for a decent price that is in good condition, go for it. I like the M4s (M4, M4-2, M4-P) myself but it's really a matter of personal preference. They're all good cameras. My current film M body is an M4-2, which cost me $800 last September (including a trip to the shop to have the rangefinder cleaned and collimated).

I see completed auctions on presumably good M5 bodies running $600-$1100 on Ebay. KEH lists three right now at prices from just under $1200 to BGN at $700.

You can get the excellent Voigtländer Color Skopar 35mm f/2.5 (now renamed as the "35/2.5 Pancake II") new for a very reasonable $410 or so, and it will work very nicely with the standard M5 framelines. This is a wonderful lens. There are other choices out there that are good too, usually at a somewhat higher price.

So ... You should be able to do an M5 and a 35mm lens for a bit under your $2000 budget. That leaves room in the budget for a CLA and/or a couple of other bits if you need them (good strap, case, etc.)

Go for it, and have fun. :)
 
I would say get an inexpensive one first to see if you even like shooting with an RF before you commit $2K.
 
The M5 is nice but it does have the peek-a-boo metering cell I think someone
here may correct me on this, but if you want a meter go for a M6 then.

Range
 
Don't worry about what other people think. If you like the feel of the M5, go for it. Anyway, not everyone hates the M5. Junku Nishimura says: "The Leica M5 is appreciably different from the Leica M6 in stability against blur due to slow shutter. It is rare with M6 that I take shots at 1/8 second, which I do not hesitate to do with M5. Also, it is nicer to touch when you hold it in your palm than a woman’s skin is, I gather. However, it is too heavy with a Summarit on."
 
I also like Nikon rangefinders. When used next to a Leica M (I shoot both), I find the Nikon to be smoother and more quiet. I shoot the S3, which has frame lines for different lenses, the S2 has frame lines for 50mm lenses only.

The Leica M has a better viewfinder, particularly the focus patch, and the Leica M lenses are as good as they are reputed to be. But the Nikon S rangefinders are built more ruggedly, and seldom if ever require service or repair. The Nikon S lenses are superb, and are a great value.

Here in Japan Leicas are much appreciated, but I get more comments if I am carrying a Nikon rangefinder. I am going shopping for an SP today...
 
On the M5 the meter needs to be upgraded to take modern batteries. The M6 will take common batteries. Resale value on the M6 is still excellent. It will take all M mount lenses and Screw Mount with adapter; viewfinder 28, 35, 50, 75, 90, 135. The Nikon S2 is the most common but is quite old and with the 50mm f1.4 (Sonnar Lens) is getting quite pricey. Alternative is the Canon P with a 50mm f1.4. The Canon P will take screw mount lenses but not collapsible ones; ergo you can use CV-Voigtlander (modern lenses) on them. As far as shades and filters for the above they are getting harder to find. Another alternative is the Leica M4 (no meter but modern loading system) and CV lenses which would easily put you under 2k.
 
Thanks for all your input. I've tried the Nikon rangefinders, but didn't like the focusing. I'm not adverse to an M6, I'm just a bit confused about the different models. Thanks for the advice on the Color Skopar, I was looking at it as my 1st choice.
 
Frontman said:
I also like Nikon rangefinders. When used next to a Leica M (I shoot both), I find the Nikon to be smoother and more quiet. I shoot the S3, which has frame lines for different lenses, the S2 has frame lines for 50mm lenses only.

The Leica M has a better viewfinder, particularly the focus patch, and the Leica M lenses are as good as they are reputed to be. But the Nikon S rangefinders are built more ruggedly, and seldom if ever require service or repair. The Nikon S lenses are superb, and are a great value.

Here in Japan Leicas are much appreciated, but I get more comments if I am carrying a Nikon rangefinder. I am going shopping for an SP today...
Click to expand...

That's true Frontman, I too get a lot of looks when I'm using
the S2 as well with the chrome 35mm f2.5.

Range
 
1750Shooter said:
Thanks for all your input. I've tried the Nikon rangefinders, but didn't like the focusing. I'm not adverse to an M6, I'm just a bit confused about the different models. Thanks for the advice on the Color Skopar, I was looking at it as my 1st choice.
Click to expand...

M6s are good, lots of them around. The meter is more reliable than the M5 meter, and the M6 is smaller and handier.
 
If this is your first rangefinder, why not try something decent but still affordable?

I am also a nikon guy with F3, D700 currently and various other digital nikon/fuji/kodak bodies in the past.

I started my rangefinder experience with nice Fed 2 with Industar 61LD but never really got used to the squinty finder and knob wind. Then not long ago got myself a nice Kiev 4AM with heios 103, Jupiter 12 and Jupiter 9. I really liked the set up but was not too fond of carrying around external finder.

As a result, I searched for something affordable with multiple frame lines.... which led me to Canon rangefinders. I still have the lenses from Kiev and added W-nikkor 3.5cm 2.5. and got amadeo adapter for the ltm cameras. So far I've tried Canon 7 that I returned due to faulty shutter/timer but I really liked the viewfinder and rangefinder with selectable frame lines. Much brighter and bigger than any other rangefinders I've tried and camera felt very good in my hands. I believe it's the same size as M5 but slightly lighter (still heavier than regular M's). I also got a mint Canon P that is a joy to use. Smooth as butter and great 1:1 life size finder. I think in the long run, I will keep the Canon P and Canon 7 that is coming in the mail and sell my Fed 2 and Kiev 4AM (Although both are a beauty to look at and fondle).
 
I would recommend the Leica M6 TTL or M7. If you are used to Nikon (I have F, F2, and F3), then the shutter speed dial on these two Leica rangefinders turn in the same direction as the Nikon cameras.

The Leica lenses, unfortunately turn opposite of Nikon. However, the displacement of the RF patch actually tells you which way to turn the focus ring to achieve focus.
 
Both are likely good choices, either M5 or R3A. R3A of course you get aperture priority, and likely a better meter. If you buy new, you get the warranty too. Leica is built nicer, if that matters to you. As a point of comparison, I'd say my R4A felt similar to a Nikon FM3A in terms of build quality.

I'd make the decision based on whether you want AE or not.
 
Thanks for all the input! It gives me plenty to think about. As of Fri. PM, the decision has been put off for a while as we just discovered my wife has some skin cancer that must be dealt with. Dr. says it's not to bad, but... Maybe I'll buy an Electro 35 to satisfy my GAS.
 
Sorry about the skin cancer. I get it too.
Back to RF. I'd get one of the Canon leaf shutter cameras. I like the Canonet QL17. Completely mechanical with a meter and auto operation but works just fine without a battery. Fast 40mm 1.7 lens, compact and cheap.
I used one for years.
If you get a Canon or Leica you will quickly become annoyed at the reverse focusing direction, especially if you continue to shoot the Nikons
 
Hi,

The Leica CL and M5 have centre weighted metering, or rather the cell covers the centre of the frame. And the frame lines show just what is being metered. Nothing wrong with that.

The shutter speed dial is better, you can adjust it and see what speed you're at via the view finder because of its position and the indicator.

As for the batteries, many of use use Wein cells or get those little adapters to use hearing aid batteries and adjust the voltage.

I hope that brings the M5 back to the top of the list.

Regards, David
 
Don't worry about the batteries. I use an adapter that enables the use of silver oxide batteries and provides the correct voltage and discharge characteristics of mercury cells. I have one in my M5 & CL and cost about £15 each from Japan. Silver oxide cells cost peanuts and last and last and last.

My only gripe with the M5 has been the lack of choice with neck or wrist straps as it uses 'slots' rather than eyes and I like to carry it in my right hand with the strap wrapped round my wrist. I ended up using the leather strap from the ER case.
 
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