Can we expect an M8 competitor anytime soon?

-kk-

-kk-

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As much as I would like to, I know i just cant justify the price of an M8, so im really looking forward to the day when someone else will come up with a digital rangefinder. question is, will this be anytime soon?

I read in various places that Zeiss and CV have no immediate plans (i take this as meaning in the next 5 years) to venture into this market, citing short product lifespan in digital markets.

But what really got me intrigued was the new Canon G9. I wonder if (and im sure there is a large dose of wishful thinking on my part here) Canon is capable/wants to go down this routeof a d-rf?? They already have the sensor technology, and i swear the 1st time i saw the G9 i thought it was a digital canonet. hey i dont even mind if its a fixed lens! I just need something digital for those long trips to refugee camps etc, something reliable and with good resolution (i work in poverty alleviation, carrying rolls of films through security or trying to store them for long periods in camps is not much fun).

Im not up to date on what manufacturers are thinking, but i know some of you are up with the play. So what do you think? I really want to minimize my setup, and its hard to do this while still dependent on a dslr system.
 
Hi KK, I have a G7, that's very similar to G9: it's nice, small and silent, and very useful for street candids, but... But the viewfinder is too small (circa 80% of the field), the parallax correction is not so good (over-corrected I'd say), the small dimension of the sensor gives a huge DOF ( often too much ), and the sensor tecnology is very far to the dynemic range of a negative film...
I think that to have a real camera like you want, we need a bigger sensor (aps-c minimum), a good viewfinder, and more dynamic range ( Foveon? Fuji Super CCD? )...
But now "the market" goes for huge displays, a lot of meapixels, and so on... Just another direction!

Ciao
Franco
 
I was looking at one of those G9's today ... they're a neat little camera but I think they went over the top a bit with 12.1 megapixels. From what I've read they're pretty useless over 200 ISO! I'd happily replace my faithful A620 with one though! :)

Canon may be the company to do it ... you never know! When it happens it will probably be from someone we least expected it from.
 
Keith, the G7 is a 10 Megapixels camera, photos are good "as is" from 80 to 200 iso, and with a bit of post-production noise reduction also at 400 iso ( I use Noiseware ). You can use it at 800 iso, but here you MUST use a lot of noise reduction, with everything that this means... Over 800 ... No way... It's terrible!
 
Doug, the Epson R-d1 is a great and strange camera, in my opinion... I don't know if it's still in production, but yes, it's the only real competitor!
 
oh yes, forgot bout the epson. Let me preface what my next sentence by saying I know little about digital technology and such, but it just seems the epson is really expensive for what seems like 'old' digital technology (ie 6mp). Added to that is the fact that those are no longer in production (right?) i wonder if there will be problems with support/service down the line? These are my 2 main reservations for spending that kind of money on the epson.

ive also always wondered if they were priced that high because at the time they were basically the only option in the field? now that M8 is there, its relatively 'cheaper', but still no small change.

BUT, if they do come up with an updated version.... that'll be interesting.
 
do a search, there are a million threads on here already about there not being anything else on the horizon.

Next, the G9 may be a neat camera, but its no substitute for a real rangefinder/veiwfinder focusing combination. The finder is tiny tiny tiny and there are some handling issues that dont pan out well not to mention the lens is so slow.
 
M8 is the competition for the earlier Epson RD-1 (no longer in production).
There is no other digital range finder camera so the competition is DSLR's and compact cameras however different they are.

Some said about the Canon G9 that the finder was only about 80%. I wonder - is it at all usable as a finder?
The problem is the sensor. Or the lack of a sensor, perhaps.
The sensor size is roughly about 10% of that in M8.
Digital compacts can't compete in the same way as analog compacts could.

However there is the new Sigma DP1. A digital compact with a sensor in the same size as DSLR's and with a fixed wide angle lens.

/Erik
 
-kk- said:
oh yes, forgot bout the epson. Let me preface what my next sentence by saying I know little about digital technology and such, but it just seems the epson is really expensive for what seems like 'old' digital technology (ie 6mp).
Click to expand...

KK

Don't be distracted by the relatively smaller sensor on the R-D1. This is the same sensor as was used on the Nikon D100 which is a much loved and revered DSLR. I currently own both the M8 and an R-D1.

If you check out some of my posts here (all R-D1) you'll see what a star the camera is. I've found the sensor to have a character and luminosity which is exquisite, especially in low-light situations.

If you live in the US, you may be better supported than us Europeans because I've seen several posts about US camera repairers who are willing to support the R-D1.

Anyway, if you want a platform for Leica/CV lenses and can't afford an M8, you could be creating wonderful images using the R-D1.

LouisB
 
I would not count on it. I suspect it is not a question of other vendors releasing a digital RF, but of them releasing an RF, period.

It's feasible, perhaps, if a firm with the sensors and digital tech farmed out the construction to Cosina or someone else. But, I can't see this happening unless the RF part of the mix was just incidental. That is, if use of an RF design would cut costs. Such a camera would almost certainly be fixed lens.
 
I'll add a vote for the R-D1. The quality of the images makes it as "obsolescence proof" as any digital camera can be. As for repair, if the mechanics go, I think many competent RF repair people will be able to fix it. If the electronics go, throw it away and buy another on the used market, which is probably what you would have to do with any electronic failure in a digital product.

/T
 
Keith said:
I was looking at one of those G9's today ... they're a neat little camera but I think they went over the top a bit with 12.1 megapixels. From what I've read they're pretty useless over 200 ISO! I'd happily replace my faithful A620 with one though! :)

Canon may be the company to do it ... you never know! When it happens it will probably be from someone we least expected it from.
Click to expand...

I bought a G9 and carry it in my gear bag for color/snapshots. I have not found it to be useless over ISO 200. In fact it's great up to ISO 800 and then it shows some noise after that. I think it's a great addition to my gear.

Best regards,

Bob
 
I think the original manufacturing run was supposed to be a total of 10,000 units in two batches of 5,000. It's not clear if they made more than the original 5,000 first batch. As far as the used market goes, the R-D1 seems to be snatched up very quickly when offered for sale. Certainly here on RFF they seem to go fast. Refurbs, when they were offered on the Epson site last year, were all gone within a matter of hours or minutes, for the smaller batches.

/T
P.S. I think another reason the used market is/was so active is the fact that the camera is alot more attractive to buy at $1400-$1600 used than the original price of $3,000 or the Matsuiyastore current new price of $2,100. The fact that Matsuiyastore (on eBay) continues to have new models at $2100 is interesting. Where are they coming from? New old stock? Are they more desired in Japan so that Epson continues to produce them for that market? I don't know.
 
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sitemistic said:
While the logical contender to produce a digital RF would probably be Cosina, there is no reason to think that would happen. Cosina got into the film rangefinder game because both film and rangefinders were a niche market where they could compete. But digital is not a niche market, and producing a digital rangefinder with a short product lifespan would likely make no sense to them. The Bessa R is still a marketable camera all these years after it's introduction. A digital RF of similar age would be obsolete.

My crystal ball isn't very clear, but I would be really surprised if anyone other than Leica tried that experiment again. And Leica is forced to do so, because they simply don't have any other hand to play.
Click to expand...

Add to that several statements by Kobiyashisan that he has no interest in producing a digital camera especially since there is such a slim margin in that segment. It's clear to me that looking to CV for a digital rf is a waste of time.

Best regards,

Bob
 
Another Digital Rangefinder

Another Digital Rangefinder

Although our Leica rep denies there is a Leica G9 killer in the works there is a potential clue that Leica is working on a less expensive digital rangefinder and that is the new line of Summarit lenses. Producing a less expensive line of lenses could indicate a digital CL or CLE type rangefinder is in the offing. It's just speculation on my part but it makes some sense to market them with a $2500 camera than a $5500 camera. It is also wishful thinking on my part but wouldn't a small 12 MP Leica the size of a CL be a killer combo with the new lens line? Yeah baby, put me on the waiting list!:D
 
Since the CLE cannibalized sales of Leica's full size bodies, it seems unlikely that they would risk doing the same with the M8. As far as a digital P&S rangefinder, though, anything is possible. Of course, that is decidedly not a competitor to the M8.

/T
 
While the G9 certainly looks interesting, it's a far cry from a digital RF. It's still a P&S digital camera. The Ricoh GX-100 is far more interesting to a traditional RF user, in my opinion. I have one and really like it, although it, too, is very noisy above ISO 80. (No problem, though, just Noise Ninja the files and they're Ok.) The GX-100 also has a zoom range of 25mm-75mm, much closer to a traditional RF than the G9.

/T
 
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