Canon P Manual? & Flash Question.

[kb244]

So I'm trying to find a PDF or scan of the Canon P manual. I've already done the usual search of finding the free manuals online much like I did for my EOS-1, or my Canon FTb, and so forth.

Also a flash related question.

I know that to use a electronic flash on the Canon P, you set the shutter to "X" which I think is approximatly 1/30th of a second, etc.

But when using the Flash Unit V, using bulb flashes such as the M5, M3/2 etc what shutter speed should be used? On the back of the sylvania bulb boxes, theres distance and apertures for 1/30th and slower (ie: "Adjustable camerat @ 1/30th"). then further down it has guide numbers for adjustable cameras, with shutter speeds for "M Sync only" from 1/30th to 1/500 (another list for FP Sync Only). , then a row of numbers for "X" or "M" Sync upto 1/30th. Can I use a higher shutter on the P with a bulb flash if the box allows for it, or do I have to stick to 1/30th and lower. I know on the Argus C3 with the flash gun, it has to be 1/25th or lower or it will not show up, but I think maybe the Canon P might differ.

One of the reasons I wanted the manual to see what Canon recomended, just as with the Argus C3 manual, says 1/25 always.

 

[back alley]

i was never able to find a free manual online.
i eventually bought a photocopy from 'neatphoto'

don't know the flash stuff.

joe

 

[John Shriver]

There are (were?) two types of flash blubs. Short-peak ones, and focal-plane (long peak) ones. The short-peak ones are really intended for leaf shutters.

Remember that the total time of a focal plane exposure is still the same as the X-sync shutter speed, that's how long it takes a curtain to open or close. It's a traveling narrow slit. So you need a flashbulb that stays lit for a long time to use a shutter speed above the X-sync speed. Otherwise only part of the slit's travel will get lit up.

Of the common bayonet-base flashbulbs, only the 6 and 26 are focal-plane. The 5 or 25 press is short-peak, as are the midget base M2 and M3.

So you can use the short-peak bulbs, but only at X-sync or slower speeds. Their flash is very short, so they will freeze action.

But, you also need to look at the Canon P manual, to understand how the synchronization is set up. There will only be certain speeds where the timing is right, since you have to start lighting any flashbulb in advance of when you need the light.

The M3 is the best deal in flashbulbs, they pack quite a wallop, but they are common and cheap. 6 and 26's are getting rather scarce and pricey.

 

[dexdog]

I may have a copy of the Canon P manual. I will check when I get home after work, should someone not already produce one in the meantime.

 

[rbiemer]

I do have a Canon P manual(but alas, no scanner) and here is what it say about flash:
(page 23) "Flash Synchronization"
>>When the Canon Flash Unit V is fitted directly into the Flash Unit Connector Socket and when the shutter button is pressed, it is automatically adjusted for the various shutter speed syncroflash operation.
Below that there is a small table.
The heading on the table reads "Consult the table below for shutter speeds:"
there are two columns and four rows. as follows
FLASH IN USE------------Shutter speed
FP Type Bulb----------1/1000~1 sec.(except 1/30)
M Type Bulb-----------1/250~1 sec.(except 1/30)
F Type Bulb------------1/30~1 sec.
Speedlight(Electronic Flash)---X(1/55 second)
below the table there is a note "Note: A lens hood is also necessary when taking flash pictures."
(page 24)"Flash Syncronization(continued)"
>>Perfect electrical contact is made when the Canon Flash Unit Model V or Canon Speedlight Unit Model V is attached to the Flash Unit Connector Socket. No external wiring is necessary and all synchronization is done automatically in the camera itself.
To extend the Flash Unit from the camera, or to connect a Speedlight Unit of non-Canon make, use a Canon Extension Cord Va(15 ft) or Vb(3ft).
there is a picture of the P with a speedlight unit attached(the battery pack is HUGE!) and below that there are two notes:
"Note:
1. For Electronic Flash, turn the shutter speed dial to "X." The shutter speed at that time will be 1/55 sec.
2. When using "F" type bulbs, be sure the shutter speed dial is at 1/30 sec.
Just the two pages.
I thought I recalled seeing a P manual somewhere on line but I checked my usual place for 'em and nothing there for the P.
Hope this helps.
Rob

 

[kb244]

There are (were?) two types of flash blubs. Short-peak ones, and focal-plane (long peak) ones. The short-peak ones are really intended for leaf shutters.

Remember that the total time of a focal plane exposure is still the same as the X-sync shutter speed, that's how long it takes a curtain to open or close. It's a traveling narrow slit. So you need a flashbulb that stays lit for a long time to use a shutter speed above the X-sync speed. Otherwise only part of the slit's travel will get lit up.

Of the common bayonet-base flashbulbs, only the 6 and 26 are focal-plane. The 5 or 25 press is short-peak, as are the midget base M2 and M3.

So you can use the short-peak bulbs, but only at X-sync or slower speeds. Their flash is very short, so they will freeze action.

But, you also need to look at the Canon P manual, to understand how the synchronization is set up. There will only be certain speeds where the timing is right, since you have to start lighting any flashbulb in advance of when you need the light.

The M3 is the best deal in flashbulbs, they pack quite a wallop, but they are common and cheap. 6 and 26's are getting rather scarce and pricey.

Thanks for the informatiom (all of which I knew) , but thats the reason I wanted the Canon P manual originally to see how the synchronization is setup. I Assume the bayonet attachment is on a different trigger (M Sync), where as the PC terminal is X sync, but I need the manual to confirm such.

 

[kb244]

I do have a Canon P manual(but alas, no scanner) and here is what it say about flash:
(page 23) "Flash Synchronization"
>>When the Canon Flash Unit V is fitted directly into the Flash Unit Connector Socket and when the shutter button is pressed, it is automatically adjusted for the various shutter speed syncroflash operation.
Below that there is a small table.
The heading on the table reads "Consult the table below for shutter speeds:"
there are two columns and four rows. as follows
FLASH IN USE------------Shutter speed
FP Type Bulb----------1/1000~1 sec.(except 1/30)
M Type Bulb-----------1/250~1 sec.(except 1/30)
F Type Bulb------------1/30~1 sec.
Speedlight(Electronic Flash)---X(1/55 second)
below the table there is a note "Note: A lens hood is also necessary when taking flash pictures."
(page 24)"Flash Syncronization(continued)"
>>Perfect electrical contact is made when the Canon Flash Unit Model V or Canon Speedlight Unit Model V is attached to the Flash Unit Connector Socket. No external wiring is necessary and all synchronization is done automatically in the camera itself.
To extend the Flash Unit from the camera, or to connect a Speedlight Unit of non-Canon make, use a Canon Extension Cord Va(15 ft) or Vb(3ft).
there is a picture of the P with a speedlight unit attached(the battery pack is HUGE!) and below that there are two notes:
"Note:
1. For Electronic Flash, turn the shutter speed dial to "X." The shutter speed at that time will be 1/55 sec.
2. When using "F" type bulbs, be sure the shutter speed dial is at 1/30 sec.
Just the two pages.
I thought I recalled seeing a P manual somewhere on line but I checked my usual place for 'em and nothing there for the P.
Hope this helps.
Rob

I wonder if that is to say, if I am using M type (Short peak) I can use any shutter from 1/250th down to 1 second, and provided I'm using the Canon Flash Unit V ( as I am ).

 

[rbiemer]

Karl,
The illustrations are pretty basic; they just show the unit connected to the side of the camera. I think you're right except I read the chart as saying you can use any speed in that range(1/250 to 1 sec) except for the 1/30 speed. And there is no reason given(or that I quite understand) why the 1/30 isn't usable.
If no one here has a scan of the manual, I can ask some one to scan it for me and I'll post it. Likely take several days, though.
Rob

 

[John Shriver]

Canon had some interesting patents on automatic switching of flash sync based only on the shutter speed dial. Some of the patent numbers are on the bottom of the IV-SB2. There's a lot of wire and contacts in a IV-SB2.

I'm sure that the switching arrangements are why 1/30 gets excluded for certain types of flashbulbs.

Note how much nicer the Canon P is than a Leica IIIf. Better thinking on Canon's part. Also, I suspect this is why the M3 had separate X and M sync sockets -- Leica could not get around Canon's patent, which allowed just one sync socket.

Also a lot easier than the Canon IV-SB2 with the Flash Y, where there is a "Micro Sync" delay relay in the flash that has to be correct for the battery type, bulb type, and shutter speed. A royal pain, you can't use the flash without the correct "cheat sheet". (With the right accessories, the Canon Flash Y could be loaded with 1, 2, or 3 D cells, a cartridge with 4 AA cells, or a BC unit with a 22.5 volt battery and a capacitor. Can you say "too much flexibility"?)

 

[kb244]

Speaking of F Class bulbs (ie; the only bulb according to canon's manual you can shoot at 1/30th of a second), we got a bunch of them here in the store. Seems they used a gas instead of magnesium (or equivilent), and has a lower guide number than most M class bulbs. What I'd like to see if the store has is those FP bulbs. 😛