Canon vs Nikon lens/mount technology questions

[jett]

OK so I have a suite of cameras. All film and all manual focus. As a disclaimer I know little about Autofocus, DSLRs, etc.

I think of getting an autofocus (d)slr from time to time. I would only get a mount that I can use with a film and digital body and that is full-frame. Unless Pentax unleashes a full-frame DSLR I'm limited to Canon, Nikon, and Sony/Minolta. Personally, I'd prefer a Canon or Nikon so my questions are geared towards those two and I have brand loyalty towards neither.

1. Does Canon have an inherent advantage for changing mounts. I know that Nikon stuck with the F mount while Canon choose to abandon the FD mount. I suspect that they could have went auto focus with the FD mount if they had wanted to but obviously they did not.

2. Will I have all the lens technology features on the EOS 3 (or 1v) and on the F100 (or F6)? Like image stabilization, matrix metering, ultrasonic motors. I'm not sure which features I would use/want but the ability to use them would be a plus. I'm mostly thinking about the EOS 3 or F100 and I ask about the 1v/F6 because those seem to be the professional models (incase I want an "upgrade").

3. Is there an advantage or having the image stabilization in your lens instead of the body? Some manufactures place this in the body and others in the lens. Canon/Nikon, I believe, place these on the lenses.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Just get either the top end Nikon or Canon body, not the second tier model like the EOS3 or F100. There's no reason to when you can have a an EOS 1V or F5 for the same price. The build quality and sealing of the pro level bodies is better than the top level consumer bodies. You'll spend more money in the long run if you get the lower end camera simply because you'll have a hankering to move up to the better one in the end. At today's used prices, you can get one of the pro film bodies for the cost of a point & shoot digital.

As for technology in the cameras themselves, they are equals. EOS 1V = Nikon F5. The F6 is just newer but personally I don't think Nikon made any improvements past the F4 which was their greatest achievement beside the F2 and the SP.

Image stabilization is in the lenses these days with both those systems. Personally, I can't stand it because it let me down in the past a few times. I just hold still now.

When Canon changed their mount they were looking to capitalize on a new system grabbing Canon users so they'd switch over. Now the EOS system can take lenses from many other manufacturers but not their own superb FD mount. That was planned obsolescence and it was ridiculous. Nikon has done the same thing to some extent with their digital cameras. If you stick an F lens on a D300S an the lens isn't AI or AIS, then you crack the metering signal ring that runs around the lens mount. Similar things happen with lower grade Nikon digital cameras and it's total BS.
The problem that these companies have is that their gear is very good yet they need the customer to buy new stuff so they build in subtle incompatibilities in the new bodies/lenses. That's why the F4 is the best camera they ever made. It can control every full frame lens they made including the G series (on shutter priority and program) and it can give full matrix metering on almost every F mount lens all the way back to 1959. Perfection but if you build something that works too well for too long, you will have to innovate or lose market share to old amazing gear.
If you're getting a film body, pick one of the pro level ones only, in my opinion. The F4 or F5 are photographic systems that were made during the pinnacle of Nikon's innovation. The Canon EOS 1V and even the 1N (or 1NRS) are the same but canon branded. All of them are second to none and will serve you very well.

Phil Forrest

 

[Ranchu]

You can adapt many lenses for use on EOS, not so much on Nikon. Some people like Sony for M42 lenses. http://www.flickr.com/groups/eos-manual-lenses/

 

[user237428934]

You can find a comparison of the top film Canons here http://photonotes.org/reviews/1-1N-3-1V/
I have the EOS 3 and I like the camera a lot. It's not far from the EOS 1v but I think the 1-series is too heavy for me. Just like in the digital world. 5D is great, 1D too heavy.

Weather sealing is overrated because most people don't have weather sealed lenses. Even if you own a Canon L-lens then some are not weather sealed out of the box. You have to buy a special front filter to have them completely weather sealed.

Image stabilization in the lens has one advantage only: stabilized viewfinder image with a long telephoto lens. I'd prefer a stabilizer in the camera because my longest lens is 85mm but Canon and Nikon will never build that because they have a lot of stabilized lenses out there. I'd love to have all my fixed lenses stabilized, especially 50 and 85mm

I don't think that it's correct to say that "planned obsolence" considerations were involved when Canon changed from FD to EF. I read that the great USM AF would not be possible with the FD mount and some other things like a 1.2 lens with controlled amount of vignetting. The EF mount is already longer on the market than the FD mount was.

 

[splitimageview]

There are some advantages going for say an F100 over an F5, like weight, but I agree in general with the other comments...

As for IS your only in body option is Sony. One can adapt older lenses to Sony to take advantage of this, at a Price. And it requires stop down metering. The SLT models have EVFs for precise focusing of these lenses; adapting to Canon is hit or miss with accurate focus with the optical VF but many people have had success with it (not me.)

For Nikon in particular there are DSLR models that will allow full matrix metering, etc. across all older Nikon optics. For full frame this includes the D700, 600, and 800. There are no Canon DSLRs that can use Canon FD lenses.

Hope this helps.

 

[Addy101]

All Canon AF lenses function fully on all Canon AF bodies. Not so for Nikon. A lot of folks think because Nikon stayed with f-mount, their backward compatibility is good - however, that it not the case. Go with Canon, live is so much easier if you don't have to think about whether it works.

With Canon you have everything with all lenses on all bodies: you've got IS on the very first Canon EOS camera and the new 40/2.8 STM also functions!

 

[nobbylon]

Have a think about what lenses you like and decide on a body thereafter.
Using adapters and different manufacturer lenses on Canons etc is all very well but at the end of the day the body was not designed for this use. I've used R glass via different mounts on my Nikons and to be honest while the results are pleasing it's not ideal. The quality and properties of the pro series lenses for Canon and Nikon are so good that there really is little point IMO in messing around with others. What happens is that you end up with a load of lenses you never use!
Of course there are exceptions and to those users I apologise. If a certain look is needed then fine.
Be aware that FF cameras expose any shortfalls in lenses, not so much if you view on screen but more so if you print large.
My personal choice would be a D700 and a 24-70 2.8 which you could use on your F100. The F100 is basically a film D700 anyway. I use FF Nikon and for film an F5 with various pro series Nikkors and swap between with no problems at all.

 

[BW400CN]

...
I don't think that it's correct to say that "planned obsolence" considerations were involved when Canon changed from FD to EF. I read that the great USM AF would not be possible with the FD mount and some other things like a 1.2 lens with controlled amount of vignetting. The EF mount is already longer on the market than the FD mount was.

remember the T80 - USM AF with Canon FD mount but at this time people wanted the motor inside the cam!

Or remeber the first Canon AF Lens the nFD 4,0 35-70 AF "Frankenstein"
The motor AND the AF was inside the lense!

A-1 fully loaded 😉

With todays technology it could be much smaler - so the FD mount wasn´t the problem - Canon wanted to sell new stuff to old custoumers - and lost me!
I staid with my FD gear until I bought my first digital cam - a Nikon! I never bought something new from Canon since the killed the FD mount!

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Same story with the F3-AF and the frankenstein active IR AF system integrated into the lens.

Phil Forrest

 

[Elektrojänis]

Image stabilization in the lens has one advantage only: stabilized viewfinder image with a long telephoto lens.

There is another advantge. If the stabilisation is on the lens, you can use it on film too.

Or has anyone seen film bodies with in body stabilisation?

 

[x-ray]

I've owned two EOS3 and two F100s. I started with the D1 DSLR and D1x then went Canon 1D and 1Ds and eventually upgraded to the II series. I switched systems because I needed full frame with shift lenses for my architectural clients. Last year I switched back to Nikon when the D800 came out. IMO the D800 is the most advanced image technology on the market.

My preference over my career for slr's has been Nikon. Owe owned many systems but Nikon has been my preference. I started with the F in the 60's and the last model I had was the F5. During the periods when I owned either Canon or Nikon I owned compatible film bodies for the occasional film need and the ability to use some excellent optics. During this period I owned either 2 EOS 3's or two F100's. Personally I feel the F100 is a much better camera in both operation and construction. The F100 is metal and the EOS3 is plastic. The EOS3 feels cheap and is a chunky square body that feels like a block of wood with square corners. The F100 feels and looks sleek like a professional camera. Bothe function very well. If I remember correctly the F100 takes AA batteries and the EOS 3 uses a more expensive and harder to find lithium cell. The F100 IMO is a professional body where the EOS3 is a prosumer body.

As to optics I use some of my 1960's vintage AI'd lenses on my D800. My old 50 f3.5 micro is outstanding as us my 25-50 f4. Virtually any AI lens works on the newer DSLR Nikons with auto aperture and most metering functions. With canon you can use other makers lenses with adapters but you give up auto aperture.

Both Canon and Nikons current glass are superb. I had some great Canon glass and some not so great. I have some superb Nikon glass now.

My suggestion, a Nikon D600 and F100 with some new G glass. The new sensors in Nikon are a good generation beyond the others with a full 14+ stops dynamic range. This is why I switched back to Nikon plus the new VRII lenses. I recently did a shoot for a client that I had no controll over light and could not use strobes. I wound up shooting mostly with my D800 at iso 6400 and the body set to DX 1.5x and my 70-200 f2.8 VRII. My hand held exposures ranged from 1/8-1/15 at f2.8. I couldn't believe the quality and the vast majority of shots were keepers and very sharp. Noise was not bad either.

 

[splitimageview]

All Canon AF lenses function fully on all Canon AF bodies. Not so for Nikon. A lot of folks think because Nikon stayed with f-mount, their backward compatibility is good - however, that it not the case.

On Nikon full frame DSLRs, it pretty much is the case that all F mount lenses will work fine, and he's looking for full frame.

 

[Nikon Bob]

On Nikon full frame DSLRs, it pretty much is the case that all F mount lenses will work fine, and he's looking for full frame.

No, not all F mount film era lenses. Only those that are ai/ai'd or ais will work on Nikon DSLRs that have a metering tab. Shanking an older non ai F mount lens on these bodies may damage/break the metering tab. It is the same with Nikon ai metering film bodies with the exception of those bodies that allowed the ai metering tab to lifted up out of the way.

Bob

 

[sevo]

On Nikon full frame DSLRs, it pretty much is the case that all F mount lenses will work fine, and he's looking for full frame.

Besides, there is only a partial compatibility issue on consumer AF bodies - non-motorized lenses will not autofocus on the later consumer digital bodies, which did away with the camera side motor. But they do mount and do indeed work perfectly well using manual focus.

If any, the constraints regarding manual focus lenses on the same cameras are more critical - the lower end digitals did away with the AI aperture coupling and weren't given a stop down meter mode, so that they refuse to meter with manual focus lenses (or rather, all lenses without electronic aperture coupling - IIRC there are maybe three or four electrified MF lenses). But even in that case they will work all-manual, using a external meter or test shot histogram evaluation.

 

[Addy101]

Besides, there is only a partial compatibility issue on consumer AF bodies - non-motorized lenses will not autofocus on the later consumer digital bodies, which did away with the camera side motor. But they do mount and do indeed work perfectly well using manual focus.

If any, the constraints regarding manual focus lenses on the same cameras are more critical - the lower end digitals did away with the AI aperture coupling and weren't given a stop down meter mode, so that they refuse to meter with manual focus lenses (or rather, all lenses without electronic aperture coupling - IIRC there are maybe three or four electrified MF lenses). But even in that case they will work all-manual, using a external meter or test shot histogram evaluation.

If that sounds like perfect backward compatibility to you, well I stand corrected :angel:

 

[Tejasican]

I thought at one point I had heard of someone taking the mounting ring from an dead FM or FE and putting it on another body so that non-Ai lenses would mount. Can this not be done on a digital that otherwise mounts AI'd lenses?

 

[Tom33]

As for Nikon, I have a nice F4 set up for MF, with a split image circle focusing screen. I have both MB20 and MB21 battery holders so it can be stealthy or big and "pro." It works very well with AI, AI-S and AF-D glass, not so much with G glass as the aperture on G lenses cannot be manually controlled by the F4 to shoot aperture priority. I also have an F6 set up the same way for MF with a split image focusing screen. The F6 outperforms the F4 in all ways: AF speed, better metering, a more compact body, better ergonomics, etc. With the battery grip it might be a little bigger, but not much. VR lenses work fine with the F6, not at all with the F4. The F6 is more complicated to learn how to use than the F4. I don't have an F5 body and have no desire since I got the F6.

I recently acquired a D800 dslr to complement the film Nikon bodies I have, and while I am still learning and exploring the D800 capabilities I have found the transitions back and forth from F6 to D800 remarkably seamless. The D800 controls just seem to be natural progressions from the F6 controls. I would expect this to be the case with most all the recent Nikon dslr bodies; i.e., D600, D700, D3, D3s, etc.

The legacy Nikon glass can still be modified to the AI-S configuration to allow use on the Nikon dslr bodies; however, I see many nice examples available for purchase that are already modified. That should not be a concern. Just be aware and seek out the lenses you know work with the camera bodies you choose. The previous posts are correct, the wrong lens configuration will damage the metering linkage.

I think the Nikon F-mount system is the choice as it will allow use of very good and widely available legacy F-mount lenses with only a few exceptions. The Nikon pro slr and dslr bodies run in similar control paths.

Cheers,

Tom

 

[Nikon Bob]

Besides, there is only a partial compatibility issue on consumer AF bodies - non-motorized lenses will not autofocus on the later consumer digital bodies, which did away with the camera side motor. But they do mount and do indeed work perfectly well using manual focus.

If any, the constraints regarding manual focus lenses on the same cameras are more critical - the lower end digitals did away with the AI aperture coupling and weren't given a stop down meter mode, so that they refuse to meter with manual focus lenses (or rather, all lenses without electronic aperture coupling - IIRC there are maybe three or four electrified MF lenses). But even in that case they will work all-manual, using a external meter or test shot histogram evaluation.

All very true but I believe a non issue on Nikon's full frame DSLRs. There is a work around as you can have non cpu lenses chipped.

Bob

 

[splitimageview]

No, not all F mount film era lenses. Only those that are ai/ai'd or ais will work on Nikon DSLRs that have a metering tab. Shanking an older non ai F mount lens on these bodies may damage/break the metering tab. It is the same with Nikon ai metering film bodies with the exception of those bodies that allowed the ai metering tab to lifted up out of the way.

Bob

Correct, which is hardly an inconvenience as there are millions of such lenses.

 

[ColSebastianMoran]

You're asking about a digital/film combination that could use the same lenses.

I particularly like the F100 film body in the Nikon line. That will be quite close in operation and handling to a D600 or D700 FF digital body. Any Nikon auto-focus lens will work with both. With every generation of AF systems, there are new features and capabilities (e.g. 51 AF points, dynamic-area AF, 3D tracking) so the handling and options change slightly. Except for this, you'll be quite comfortable going back and forth between film and digital.

I prefer the F100 because it has great features without the bulk of the bigger pro bodies. To me the big differentiator in the pro bodies is faster shooting rates and, in digital, more shot capacity in the buffer.

As others have mentioned, things get trickier if you are thinking about using manual focus lenses. Ken Rockwell has a good compatibility page covering these issues.