Olsen
Well-known
The formidable power of Canon in the new digital camera field should not be underestimated. While Canon and Nikon were about the same size back in 1999 each with a turnover of 'about 220 - 250 BY (BillionYen) of their respective camera divisions, with a operating income of 'about' 25 BY, Canon is now way ahead:
Canon's 2007 camera division estimates:
Turnover 1161 BY, operating profit 318,5 BY
Nikon's 2007/08 imaging division estimates (ends 31. march 2008):
Turnover 510 BY, operating profit 62
Actually, Canon's turnover per 1. half of 2007 is higher (520 BY) than what Nikon estimate they will have sold per 31.March next year.
And the rest of the business? They are so small both in turnover, - and especially operating profit that it is fair to say that Canon combs home more than 80% of business total profit....
Well. Finally, Nikon seems to have got the camera - D3 - it should have had up their sleaves 5 years ago when Canon launched 1Ds. But it will be a long up hill struggle to win back a 50/50 position as they had with Canon back in the good old analogue days. It will be many years ahead.
Yesss, the figures above are comparable. They include only 'camera' and 'imaging' divisions for Canon and Nikon respectively. Nikon's include scanners. Canon's do not, but include video with about 4%.
And Leica in all this? They would fit nicely into Nikon's men's room. Or as a paper weight on Canon CEO Fujio Mitarai's desk.
Something to think about, he?
Canon's 2007 camera division estimates:
Turnover 1161 BY, operating profit 318,5 BY
Nikon's 2007/08 imaging division estimates (ends 31. march 2008):
Turnover 510 BY, operating profit 62
Actually, Canon's turnover per 1. half of 2007 is higher (520 BY) than what Nikon estimate they will have sold per 31.March next year.
And the rest of the business? They are so small both in turnover, - and especially operating profit that it is fair to say that Canon combs home more than 80% of business total profit....
Well. Finally, Nikon seems to have got the camera - D3 - it should have had up their sleaves 5 years ago when Canon launched 1Ds. But it will be a long up hill struggle to win back a 50/50 position as they had with Canon back in the good old analogue days. It will be many years ahead.
Yesss, the figures above are comparable. They include only 'camera' and 'imaging' divisions for Canon and Nikon respectively. Nikon's include scanners. Canon's do not, but include video with about 4%.
And Leica in all this? They would fit nicely into Nikon's men's room. Or as a paper weight on Canon CEO Fujio Mitarai's desk.
Something to think about, he?
cmogi10
Bodhisattva
I still am more of a Nikon guy then a Canon guy, I guess I got it from my dad.
Maybe I'l get around to spending time with a 1ds MIII one of these days, (Is it out yet?)
If you can pry my M8 out of my hands for a second.
Maybe I'l get around to spending time with a 1ds MIII one of these days, (Is it out yet?)
If you can pry my M8 out of my hands for a second.
MartinL
MartinL
It would be interesting to follow Nikon's trajectory in terms of who and how many abandon Canon systems in order to make the switch; and who adopts Nikon as a result of new or upgrade entry into the high end market. The marketing departments probably have some data and theories based on the previous swing toward Canon.
POINT OF VIEW
Established
Fugio Mitarai’s desk was just a tree.
How many 40 year old Canons do you think are still around compared to Leica. Old Fugio’s desk was just a tree than. Bill
How many 40 year old Canons do you think are still around compared to Leica. Old Fugio’s desk was just a tree than. Bill
mfunnell
Shaken, so blurred
My '61-vintage Canon P works finePOINT OF VIEW said:
and there seem to be Plenty of others. ...Mike
sirius
Well-known
Canon and Nikon seem to have different business models. Canon has a couple of levels of lenses: regular (cheap, sometimes noisy and poor glass though small and light), ultrasonic (nice fit finish and sometimes excellent glass), and the L series (the best, biggest and heaviest). Does Nikon cater to the entry level lens market? I've heard that all the lenses are well made with good glass? Canon was the first to break the $1000 DSLR threashold, they were the first to make a full frame DSLR sensor, and the first to make an eminently usable high ISO camera. They've been industry leaders for years.
Leica is such an interesting comparison. It's a funny business model in some ways. They did something so well they almost seem to feel that they don't have to change it! The M8 is in many was quite similar to the Leica cameras of 50 years ago: manual focus, manual aperatures, bottom loading, not built-in flash. It's a strange concept that a company seems almost to resist change. However, in a way those cameras understand something special about the joy of crafting a photo that many other camera makers miss.
I ramble...
Leica is such an interesting comparison. It's a funny business model in some ways. They did something so well they almost seem to feel that they don't have to change it! The M8 is in many was quite similar to the Leica cameras of 50 years ago: manual focus, manual aperatures, bottom loading, not built-in flash. It's a strange concept that a company seems almost to resist change. However, in a way those cameras understand something special about the joy of crafting a photo that many other camera makers miss.
I ramble...
chuckcars
Member
Since acquiring the M8 I have completely lost interest in Canon and Nikon. Lets talk about quality and see about the comparison.
S
Socke
Guest
Sirius, the first with a full frame, i.e 24x36mm, sensor was Contax!
On the other hand, I can't care less if Canon or Nikon is biggest, would one compare Alpa, Linhof or Sinar to any (d)SLR maker? Certainly not, and the same should be applied to any camera maker. At least as long as their products are of interest, it's different if one wants to buy their shares
On the other hand, I can't care less if Canon or Nikon is biggest, would one compare Alpa, Linhof or Sinar to any (d)SLR maker? Certainly not, and the same should be applied to any camera maker. At least as long as their products are of interest, it's different if one wants to buy their shares
eon
Established
What makes Canon so much money are the compact cameras. Nikon is helplessly left behind there in that area.
When it comes to DSLR Nikon seems to be ahead of Canon in sold quantity and earned money.
When it comes to DSLR Nikon seems to be ahead of Canon in sold quantity and earned money.
Avotius
Some guy
eon said:
I have to disagree with you there, I see people wandering around with canon dslr's all the time, and maybe 1 out of 5 people I see have a nikon dslr. Plus all but one of the photo teachers at my school highly recommend and use canon, and the one who doesn't uses a fm3 not a dslr but he does have a canon point and shoot.
sirius
Well-known
charjohncarter
Veteran
Did you subtract Canon's marketing budget from those numbers? I seems to be the most important part of their business plan.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Nikon would have both excellent taste and incredibly large bladders if they fit Leica in their "men's room". But as the latest prominent arrest in a certain Minneapolis-St. Paul airport would show, that sometimes a "men's room" should just be a "men's room".Olsen said:
I also think that if somebody posted the same kind of garbage about "Nikon fitting in Leica's 'men's room'" they probably would have been strongly warned by a moderator.
gb hill
Veteran
chuckcars said:
i've seen the comparison test of the Canon and the M8 and there is no comparison. Canon wins. But It should. It's a bigger and better sensor. Does this say the M8 is a piece of rubbish? No the M8 is a good performer in it's own right. I personally think these comparisons are foolish. Nikon has a good DSLR and sales are picking up. Canon & Nikon will always be around. You have your Canon loyalist and you have your Nikon loyalist. And no one can change that, It just happens that i'm a Canon shooter.But I do admit that Nikon 's were the best analog cameras. Nikon should have made a camera to compete with the Canonets but they didn't. I wonder why?
I guess like Canon they had there hearts in slrs. Yashica made a decent slr but I think the Electro 35 RF 's were better and probably was their breadwinner. So No I don't think the M8 will be a paperweight on any corporate CO's desk because each has their own place. And to me the bulkiness of the Canon Mk1s are enough to turn me off. Id much rather have a M8 around my neck. or better yet an RD1.
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gb hill
Veteran
eon said:
I too read that in the last quarter Nikon was ahead in dslr sales. A friend of mine just bought a Nikon D40 and he simply loves it. The battery life is awsome he said. I think this is the first real dslr camera to compete with the Canon dslrs, and i'm a canon fan. but if Nikon keeps going in this direction they will be on top again like back in the analog days.
MartinL
MartinL
Nikon never was able to leap onto the clear compact digital advantage it gained with the Coolpix 950 and then doubled with the 990. These were robust, full-functioned camera's that not only met a camera niche, but did so with quality and adventurous, usable design. I still own mine along with 3 extension lenses.eon said:
Then, Canon entered with a sensor that was ever-so-slightly better suited to the small digi format in particular, as well making a stronger appeal to the "true" set-on-auto-p&s market. Its ELPH series was cute and cooler than throw-aways, and IMO, got a lot of people hooked into taking photos again. Meanwhile, Canon's quality remained high (no need to argue about relative quality with Nikon), and for the largest proportion of the market, Canon offered confidence to the upgraders (Rebel types) that they were not being foolish by buying the most popular brand.
As for Leica, my M8 is clearly an obsolete camera, but in a good way: In the way that a Rolex is an obsolete watch or a manual transmission is an obsolete auto technology. I love the Leica-ness of my images, but I'm not sure I could "argue" that they deserve a larger market share weighed against autofocus, zooms, rapid (8+/sed.) shots, and all the nifty stuff that can get packed into, for example, the 1D series. I see no reason for owning this camera other than the fact that it is small and I can't keep my hands off it!