Harry S.
Well-known
Hello RFF!
The deal is my brother and I are travelling around China for 6 weeks on April 23rd. Part of this trip we will be staying in some pre-organised hotels in the bigger cities and the other part backpacking. Packing light is a high priority.
Im starting to worry about camera choices.
Originally I was going to take 2 canon SLR's, one digital with a 35mm lens, and one film with an 85mm lens. This would cover all bases and i could swap lenses around. But its also a very heavy combination. I wouldnt enjoy carrying that around. I thought about taking just the 5D with 35/1.4 but worried that wouldnt be flexible enough and would leave me wide open to Murphy's Law.
Then I thought of taking film only: Zeiss Ikon with Summicron 35, and M6 with Planar 50mm, giving me options for 2 types of film. Then I considered the negatives: carrying a month and a half supply of film, and dealing with x-rays at upto 5 airports. Also the nightmare of scanning it all when I return home. Furthermore, I dont feel 100% confident with film- im not very good at nailing exposures.
I have a canon G10, which is small and light and arguably capable, but I really dislike it along with all small sensor digital cameras.
Im not going to lie, the M9 would be my ideal camera in this situation. But finances wont allow.
Any advice would be appreciated. Forgive my neurosis.
Regards,
Harry
The deal is my brother and I are travelling around China for 6 weeks on April 23rd. Part of this trip we will be staying in some pre-organised hotels in the bigger cities and the other part backpacking. Packing light is a high priority.
Im starting to worry about camera choices.
Originally I was going to take 2 canon SLR's, one digital with a 35mm lens, and one film with an 85mm lens. This would cover all bases and i could swap lenses around. But its also a very heavy combination. I wouldnt enjoy carrying that around. I thought about taking just the 5D with 35/1.4 but worried that wouldnt be flexible enough and would leave me wide open to Murphy's Law.
Then I thought of taking film only: Zeiss Ikon with Summicron 35, and M6 with Planar 50mm, giving me options for 2 types of film. Then I considered the negatives: carrying a month and a half supply of film, and dealing with x-rays at upto 5 airports. Also the nightmare of scanning it all when I return home. Furthermore, I dont feel 100% confident with film- im not very good at nailing exposures.
I have a canon G10, which is small and light and arguably capable, but I really dislike it along with all small sensor digital cameras.
Im not going to lie, the M9 would be my ideal camera in this situation. But finances wont allow.
Any advice would be appreciated. Forgive my neurosis.
Regards,
Harry
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Whatever you choose, DON'T CARRY TOO MUCH.
When I was in China I used 2 Leicas (M4-P, MP) and 15-35-75 lenses. My wife carried 2 Voigtländers and 28-50-90. This was in pre-digital days. If I had to go back I'd use M9 (sorry) and MP.
Cheers,
R.
When I was in China I used 2 Leicas (M4-P, MP) and 15-35-75 lenses. My wife carried 2 Voigtländers and 28-50-90. This was in pre-digital days. If I had to go back I'd use M9 (sorry) and MP.
Cheers,
R.
Colin Corneau
Colin Corneau
I've made 5 trips to China, each for about a month in duration. Most times, I had a 'base' -- a hotel or friend's place that allowed me to safely store the bulk of my gear, and take what I'd need on each day's journey. The nice part about that is I left most of my film behind. If that's an option, then take comfort that you may not have to carry all your possessions with you, all the time.
You're wise to take a mid-telephoto and a lens like a 35mm. It's an excellent combination that will leave you well prepared for almost anything you'll come across.
That said, I'd opt for smaller rangefinders. Keep it simple...as the saying goes, less really is more. I sure appreciated keeping it light, when I was over there (after learning the hard way, on the first few trips!)
Don't worry about packing film...that takes a lot less room than you'd think. And if you're in larger cities like Beijing or Shanghai you can find a camera mall and get what you're after.
Your choice of bag is key. There's so many backpacks out there now, you don't lack for choice. I did really well with a Lowepro Slingshot 200, FWIW...super versatile, customize-able, easy to carry.
Honestly, carting all your film around will not be nearly as onerous as you may think.
My 2 cents worth, anyway....
You're wise to take a mid-telephoto and a lens like a 35mm. It's an excellent combination that will leave you well prepared for almost anything you'll come across.
That said, I'd opt for smaller rangefinders. Keep it simple...as the saying goes, less really is more. I sure appreciated keeping it light, when I was over there (after learning the hard way, on the first few trips!)
Don't worry about packing film...that takes a lot less room than you'd think. And if you're in larger cities like Beijing or Shanghai you can find a camera mall and get what you're after.
Your choice of bag is key. There's so many backpacks out there now, you don't lack for choice. I did really well with a Lowepro Slingshot 200, FWIW...super versatile, customize-able, easy to carry.
Honestly, carting all your film around will not be nearly as onerous as you may think.
My 2 cents worth, anyway....
Rhoyle
Well-known
Zeiss Ikon. 28mm and 50mm. That's all you'll need.
efirmage
Established
Spent 6 weeks in Japan last year, with a mix of city and rural areas, and I imagine you'll have roughly the same shooting demands that I had there.
I shot nearly all digital, with a Rebel XTi with a 28-135 IS lens. Of course a 5D and a better lens would have been great, but the trip was made on a shoestring budget. While I was there I purchased a Yashica at a flea market, which unfortunately broke after one roll of film. I didn't have my M6 at this time, so I couldn't take that. I also was given a Holga there, so I messed around with that too. I have to say that it was really fun messing around with new (old) equipment there, and it's something to keep in mind as there will probably be flea markets with vintage cameras lying around.
An SLR setup is definitely the most flexible, I was able to get roughly the shot I wanted most of the time with zoom, high ISO, IS, and the other advantages digital provides. But despite this most of my images were simply good, or proficient. They seemed to me more tourist type shots, even though I was trying very hard to avoid that. This is especially glaring now when I look back at them as a (slightly) more seasoned photographer.
My favorite shots are without question the ones that I took with the Holga and the Yashica, despite only getting 3 rolls of film between them. Where my SLR shots tried to capture every moment, my RF and Holga shots were more concerned with the more subtle moments I experienced there, and the ones that I feel capture the mood and culture of Japan the most successfully. Perhaps a more skilled photographer could have done better, but it was the first extensive travel shooting that I had done, and it took a while to adjust from the landscape style shots I usually do.
Besides that, I felt that the SLR weighed me down, especially when in cramped streets and subways. This in part was because it was not a dedicated photo trip, and I was with several non-photographers, but a lot of it was the form factor of the SLR. After 6 weeks of lugging my not that heavy XTi around I felt like tossing it XTi, which is a much smaller camera than the 5D. I'm used to landscape photography, and I do a little large format, so I'm not afraid of heavy loads, but when I got into the dense cities of Japan I really felt the bulk of the camera. Especially in the rain, where I had to cover up a big zoom lens with my coat, and usually dart from one place to the next.
I also felt like it pegged me as even more of a tourist, so I was able to get few candid shots of people in tight spaces, which is the case in most asian cities.
These are the usual talking points of RF vs SLR, but they are especially poignant when you are using your camera all day every day. The camera never disappears (for me) when I am using an SLR in that kind of context, and I feel to get really intimate shots you need that to happen.
I also found that despite how much I tried, I never used a camera that wasn't around my neck. This again might not be true of a better photographer, but I generally stuck to one even if I had others with me.
That's a long way of saying that if I could do it again I would change my setup completely.
I'd find the smallest camera bag you can find that will fit the essentials. A water bottle, parka, umbrella, granola bar and cameras is what I'd try to stick to. Even less if possible. Especially while backpacking, it's nice to have a small bag at your hip for your camera gear.
As far as kit, I'd be pretty confident that my M6 with a 35mm and a 50mm would be able to do everything I need. If your budget allows for more, another M-camera and a 21 or 28mm, a telephoto lens would certainly be handy but beyond 50 is generally not my style. I'd also take my digital point and shoot in my pocket for shots I knew to be snapshots only, to save scanning and processing costs. I think your Ikon setup sounds capable of the task, though it is always nice to have a backup, and multiple films loaded.
All the scanning when you return will give you a nice, long look at your photos!
Sorry for the long post, but this has been much on my mind as I'm contemplating a return trip (or perhaps living there) to really photograph it well. Do it right the first time!
I shot nearly all digital, with a Rebel XTi with a 28-135 IS lens. Of course a 5D and a better lens would have been great, but the trip was made on a shoestring budget. While I was there I purchased a Yashica at a flea market, which unfortunately broke after one roll of film. I didn't have my M6 at this time, so I couldn't take that. I also was given a Holga there, so I messed around with that too. I have to say that it was really fun messing around with new (old) equipment there, and it's something to keep in mind as there will probably be flea markets with vintage cameras lying around.
An SLR setup is definitely the most flexible, I was able to get roughly the shot I wanted most of the time with zoom, high ISO, IS, and the other advantages digital provides. But despite this most of my images were simply good, or proficient. They seemed to me more tourist type shots, even though I was trying very hard to avoid that. This is especially glaring now when I look back at them as a (slightly) more seasoned photographer.
My favorite shots are without question the ones that I took with the Holga and the Yashica, despite only getting 3 rolls of film between them. Where my SLR shots tried to capture every moment, my RF and Holga shots were more concerned with the more subtle moments I experienced there, and the ones that I feel capture the mood and culture of Japan the most successfully. Perhaps a more skilled photographer could have done better, but it was the first extensive travel shooting that I had done, and it took a while to adjust from the landscape style shots I usually do.
Besides that, I felt that the SLR weighed me down, especially when in cramped streets and subways. This in part was because it was not a dedicated photo trip, and I was with several non-photographers, but a lot of it was the form factor of the SLR. After 6 weeks of lugging my not that heavy XTi around I felt like tossing it XTi, which is a much smaller camera than the 5D. I'm used to landscape photography, and I do a little large format, so I'm not afraid of heavy loads, but when I got into the dense cities of Japan I really felt the bulk of the camera. Especially in the rain, where I had to cover up a big zoom lens with my coat, and usually dart from one place to the next.
I also felt like it pegged me as even more of a tourist, so I was able to get few candid shots of people in tight spaces, which is the case in most asian cities.
These are the usual talking points of RF vs SLR, but they are especially poignant when you are using your camera all day every day. The camera never disappears (for me) when I am using an SLR in that kind of context, and I feel to get really intimate shots you need that to happen.
I also found that despite how much I tried, I never used a camera that wasn't around my neck. This again might not be true of a better photographer, but I generally stuck to one even if I had others with me.
That's a long way of saying that if I could do it again I would change my setup completely.
I'd find the smallest camera bag you can find that will fit the essentials. A water bottle, parka, umbrella, granola bar and cameras is what I'd try to stick to. Even less if possible. Especially while backpacking, it's nice to have a small bag at your hip for your camera gear.
As far as kit, I'd be pretty confident that my M6 with a 35mm and a 50mm would be able to do everything I need. If your budget allows for more, another M-camera and a 21 or 28mm, a telephoto lens would certainly be handy but beyond 50 is generally not my style. I'd also take my digital point and shoot in my pocket for shots I knew to be snapshots only, to save scanning and processing costs. I think your Ikon setup sounds capable of the task, though it is always nice to have a backup, and multiple films loaded.
All the scanning when you return will give you a nice, long look at your photos!
Sorry for the long post, but this has been much on my mind as I'm contemplating a return trip (or perhaps living there) to really photograph it well. Do it right the first time!
andredossantos
Well-known
I'd take the 5d with 35mm 1.4 and the Ikon with a 50mm.
tic
Established
Zeiss Ikon with one or two lenses (of course you need your RF!) + the G10, giving you some focal length flexibility with far less bulk than the dslr. I miss my G10, great IQ in good to moderate light and very very sharp. Don't worry about the small sensor, usethe RF for low light and defocused backgrounds and the G10 at its optimal aperture f=4.
Avotius
Some guy
If it were me from my kit, Olympus EP1 and M8 with two lenses. Travel light. Rangefinders work well here. I like a 28-50 combo and the EP1 with zoom lens for everything in between. My wife who is tiny likes to carry around a 5D and 50 1.4 but she hates how heavy it is and covets my M8 and EP1. The fact that I find her in the bedroom sometimes with my EP1 and when I walk in she tells me to get out.....well anyway.
Also remember China can be very hot and humid in the summer, less weight is good but make sure your bag is a cool one too, not one with a huge slab of material on you all the time that doesn't at least wick water.
Also know that I have traveled in and out of China at least 20 some times in the last few years, at the airports I have never had a problem with asking for a hand inspection of film.
If I got on better with 35mm lenses I would go for a Fuji x100 and be done with it, but waiting for the 50mm version of that
Also remember China can be very hot and humid in the summer, less weight is good but make sure your bag is a cool one too, not one with a huge slab of material on you all the time that doesn't at least wick water.
Also know that I have traveled in and out of China at least 20 some times in the last few years, at the airports I have never had a problem with asking for a hand inspection of film.
If I got on better with 35mm lenses I would go for a Fuji x100 and be done with it, but waiting for the 50mm version of that
Harry S.
Well-known
Thanks everyone for the advice. Its been great reading all your suggestions.
X100 would be a nice choice, but its highly unlikely one will be available in Australia within the next 10 days.
So far its looking to be the 5D and 35L, and the ZI with 50/2.
X100 would be a nice choice, but its highly unlikely one will be available in Australia within the next 10 days.
So far its looking to be the 5D and 35L, and the ZI with 50/2.
Frank Petronio
Well-known
If you mix film and digital then just add to your bulk and indecisiveness....
Either go with film OR digital.
Just take a single ISO400 kind of color neg film -- 15 rolls unwrapped fit into a Tupperware sandwich tub. Take a few of those.
Take two RF film bodies with a long and short lens on each.
OR
Take the Canon 5D and get a light digital plastic Rebel, with a long and short lens on each.
Either go with film OR digital.
Just take a single ISO400 kind of color neg film -- 15 rolls unwrapped fit into a Tupperware sandwich tub. Take a few of those.
Take two RF film bodies with a long and short lens on each.
OR
Take the Canon 5D and get a light digital plastic Rebel, with a long and short lens on each.
zerobuttons
Well-known
I was in China in May last year, for three weeks. I would not recommend bringing any film equipment. The chinese are excessive about setting up X-Ray scanners in places you wouldn´t dream of seeing them.
If I were going again, it would be my excuse for acquiring the Nikon D700
If I were going again, it would be my excuse for acquiring the Nikon D700
Contarama
Well-known
I'd take just the M6 and a bunch of film (surely they can process film in China?) and shoot at everything...if I were in China or anywhere far away from home I wouldn't want to spend a bunch of time fiddling and babysitting a bunch of my valuable photography gear
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efirmage
Established
Perhaps the best way to tell if your system is working for you is to try to simulate a day of shooting with all your gear. Keep in mind the super urban environments of whatever cities you'll be in, as well as the more open landscape. Then multiply the weight and tiredness you feel at the end of the day by 42 (days) and you'll have a good idea of what to take!
jalLee2001
jallee55
I would go the ikon and m6. If you want to save some cash, get a r2a. Add a 90 in the lens collection for close up work. I agree with the comment above take the digital. It is very flexible and handy. All airports will hand check film now. Just t ell them it is high speed. I allocate a roll per day at least. Have fun
JonasYip
Well-known
I just got back from Shanghai, where I found I used primarily the combination of M9/35lux and EP1/14, with a 90 thrown in but hardly used. I brought a lot of other stuff with me but found myself not bringing it along.
Avotius
Some guy
Whatever you do dont listen to what has been said above here. Film processing in China is long been on the out, there are only a handful of decent places here that do it right and of them only one is actually any good and the wait list to get developed there is months long. Local shops are so careless that you would be impressed with Costco developing or the similar fare.
Dont bother developing film here. You will regret it.
kehng
Established
i spent 5 weeks in china with a r3a and nokton 40mm + 15mm lens in 2009. shot 30+ rolls and it improved my relationship with rangefinders (focus and exposures) immeasurably. so much so that i traded up to a M6 when i arrived in seoul a few weeks later. i now only shoot rangefinders. my wife had an LX3 and we covered most bases between us. also get a film bag for those pesky x-rays at airports. you're gonna have a great time no matter what kit you take.
Matus
Well-known
I agree with Frank - I would not mix film and digital. I would also have a tendency to have a back up body on a trip this long as there are many occasions where you may loose one body (stolen, broken, etc.)
As I would preferably take film - I would base my decision on (A) what lenses do I want to take along and (B) which camera setup I am more familiar with. If you do not plan on using long lenses, than I would probably take the ZI with whatever lenses you like (though probably not more than 3 even though they are small) and would take the M6 as a back-up body (or the other way round).
Personally I would be strongly tempted to take a medium format camera along instead of 35 mm, but this would of course depend on the conditions and type of travel/photography.
As I would preferably take film - I would base my decision on (A) what lenses do I want to take along and (B) which camera setup I am more familiar with. If you do not plan on using long lenses, than I would probably take the ZI with whatever lenses you like (though probably not more than 3 even though they are small) and would take the M6 as a back-up body (or the other way round).
Personally I would be strongly tempted to take a medium format camera along instead of 35 mm, but this would of course depend on the conditions and type of travel/photography.
Archiver
Veteran
In 2007 I left the Canon 30D + 17-55 f2.8 at home and took the G7 and Fuji Natura Black to China instead. We did a lot of walking and hill/mountain trail walking, and I was very glad that I didn't bring the heavy gear in my shoulder bag. I did miss the image quality of the 30D in some cases, but I sure as heck didn't miss the weight.
If I was going to take a DSLR, it would be in a secure and smallish backpack. I would happily carry a Zeiss Ikon and the Canon G10 in a shoulder bag for most of the day; in fact, this was my daily combo for a number of months, with the Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 and Pro400H to handle low light situations, and the G10 to do snapshots, bright sunlight and video.
Might I add that I find video really, really important. It's one thing to come back and have glorious prints to hang on the wall, and it's another to have a range of funny and informative videos of your travels.
Last year I went to Japan for three weeks and took the M9, three lenses, the Ricoh GRD III and the Canon S90. I used the S90 as a video camera and the Ricoh for better quality images. Even this combination was a bit heavy, and I found myself only using the M9/35 at night, and the M9 and 21, 35 and 50 during the day.
The Ikon is light enough to be a daily carry camera. If you do end up taking the 5D and the 35L, just make sure you are comfortable with carrying in all day. I can carry the 5D + 35L all day, but not both the Ikon and the 5D. Certainly not if I was backpacking and doing heaps of walking. Lighter is better.
I would not recommend a lead lined film bag at all. While it sounds like a good idea, airport security will just turn up the rads until they can see through, and zap everything. I carried 14 rolls of film around China through about six scans, and they were fine when I came back to Australia.
If I was going to take a DSLR, it would be in a secure and smallish backpack. I would happily carry a Zeiss Ikon and the Canon G10 in a shoulder bag for most of the day; in fact, this was my daily combo for a number of months, with the Voigtlander 35mm f1.4 and Pro400H to handle low light situations, and the G10 to do snapshots, bright sunlight and video.
Might I add that I find video really, really important. It's one thing to come back and have glorious prints to hang on the wall, and it's another to have a range of funny and informative videos of your travels.
Last year I went to Japan for three weeks and took the M9, three lenses, the Ricoh GRD III and the Canon S90. I used the S90 as a video camera and the Ricoh for better quality images. Even this combination was a bit heavy, and I found myself only using the M9/35 at night, and the M9 and 21, 35 and 50 during the day.
The Ikon is light enough to be a daily carry camera. If you do end up taking the 5D and the 35L, just make sure you are comfortable with carrying in all day. I can carry the 5D + 35L all day, but not both the Ikon and the 5D. Certainly not if I was backpacking and doing heaps of walking. Lighter is better.
I would not recommend a lead lined film bag at all. While it sounds like a good idea, airport security will just turn up the rads until they can see through, and zap everything. I carried 14 rolls of film around China through about six scans, and they were fine when I came back to Australia.
dfoo
Well-known
But OTOH if you ask there is no issue NOT putting your film through all that xray equipment