Cold weather & FSU cameras.

[Linkert]

How cold can it get before your FSU of choice starts messing up the shots?

Noticed my Zorki-4 could handle about 5°C, below that point the curtains starts to stutter/stick. Bad oil or same with yours?


Also, unrelated question for those whom might have an answer. My Zorki-4 works on all speeds except 1/30th, tip on fixing this?

 

[Ko.Fe.]

Your camera needs cleaning and lubrication.
Freezing temperatures should be no problem.

 

[rinzlerb]

My I can't turn the focus of my otherwise perfect Jupiter 9 below about 40 degrees Fahrenheit. Otherwise, it's sweet!

 

[wolves3012]

Bearing in mind where the cameras were made, I'd be more than a bit surprised if they couldn't handle a russian winter. If the shutter is sluggish at lower temperatures, it's a sure sign that it needs some tlc. With the right lubricants, there's no reason why it shouldn't work down to the point where the film would be the issue.

 

[Penny Lane]

Some observations:

My bitsa Zorki-1 has proven to perform perfectly well at -5°C. My Start has done well down to -10°C straight off the seller's stall; only the lubes in the lens (which actually was seized) get somewhat stiff below freezing. I'll have to work on that a bit more.

Only the Zorki-6 has been iffy below freezing but that appears to have been a one-off; after tuning up the shutter by only a tiny degree it's behaved fine.

Side note: my personal cold photography record goes to a Kodak Retina Ia 015 which I've had down to around -20°C to no ill effect, straight off the stall & with no hint of ever having been opened for service at all. It's a bit tiny to use with cold hands and/or gloves though.

So as you see, it really doesn't usually get cold enough around where I live to do proper testing 🙂

Derk

 

[fanshaw]

I used a Zorki-4 and a Zenit-E in what was then called Leningrad when the temperature was about -20C. Some years later the shutter on the Zorki-4 became sluggish at 0C in an ordinary British winter, which was the first indication I had that it needed a CLA.

 

[pirx70]

My CLA'd Kiev 2 becomes sluggish around -4. Maybe wrong grease was used? Same with ARAX from 2000's. Last winter I tested Olympus OM-1, non-serviced, in -10 and it functioned perfectly. But there are probably many factors involved (one being complexity of shutter mechanism, I have never checked the *simple* LTM Leica derivatives)

 

[sevo]

Bearing in mind where the cameras were made, I'd be more than a bit surprised if they couldn't handle a russian winter.

Why should it? The USSR is more than Siberia, and the more extreme climatic zones (which they had either way) there are sparsely populated. Moscow winters are just a degree or two colder on average than those in Chicago, and have less extreme cold peaks. And I've yet to see a camera advertised as "fit for Chicago winters".

Besides, a cold-proof lubrication tends to be relatively volatile - if the cameras had been greased that way, they'd be rattling dry by now. Which they are not - the heavy grease they used has usually gummed up, just like the grease on the German cameras they copied, so they probably copied not only the camera drafts, but also the grease formula...

 

[wolves3012]

Why should it? The USSR is more than Siberia, and the more extreme climatic zones (which they had either way) there are sparsely populated. Moscow winters are just a degree or two colder on average than those in Chicago, and have less extreme cold peaks. And I've yet to see a camera advertised as "fit for Chicago winters".

Besides, a cold-proof lubrication tends to be relatively volatile - if the cameras had been greased that way, they'd be rattling dry by now. Which they are not - the heavy grease they used has usually gummed up, just like the grease on the German cameras they copied, so they probably copied not only the camera drafts, but also the grease formula...

I'm aware of the range of climates the USSR covered. I was merely speculating that, since russian winters can be severe (in places), I'd be surprised if the cameras couldn't handle cold. However, the grease idea is just as much speculation, so perhaps we'd both better stop, for lack of facts.

 

[Monochrom]

My full frame 1.2 mp zorki sticks under 12ºC but i guess it´s a problem with the dansk polish sensor...the RDA trabant processor is much more reliable...

Try on ebay to look for the winterized digital FSU kit that was made under the name siberiya zavod at vladivostok.

Good luck!

😎

 

[David Hughes]

Hmmm, I expect they were OK when brand new but nowadays they will be showing their age. That's not the same as being unsuitable.

Regards, David

 

[Frontman]

The original lubricants in these cameras suck, and seem to be made of a mixture of lard and differential oil. To get these cameras running right you need to get all the original lube cleaned out, and replaced with something more modern.

 

[Fotohuis]

With the right lubricant the camera should work till approx. -25C. Under that temperature you need special adapted lubricants for extremely low temperatures but the question is then: Will the photographer survive?

 

[Muggins]

Side note: my personal cold photography record goes to a Kodak Retina Ia 015 which I've had down to around -20°C to no ill effect, straight off the stall & with no hint of ever having been opened for service at all. It's a bit tiny to use with cold hands and/or gloves though.

Retinas, of course, have previous on being used in very cold conditions:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/picture/2013/may/29/conquest-everest-mountaineering-photography - and Hillary picked his up second-hand on the way out of New Zealand, it wasn't even new!

OK, tangent over...

Adrian

 

[Dralowid]

In years gone by Leitz would offer a service of 'winterising' your camera ie replacing the lubricants.

I dare say modern lubricants have made this unnecessary but when it comes to the waxy chip fat/bear oil/whale grease mix used to lubricate early Fed's and Zorkis I fear it is what is needed!

 

[David Hughes]

HI,

Credit where it's due, it worked. And stunk to high heaven if it was like the ones I came across. But, I will say this for them, in my old line the screw slots lined up and they got a star for that.

And the awfulness of the lubricants wasn't their fault. Germany and Japan got a lot of help and could buy on the, so called, free market. The USSR was isolated and stuck (both ways) with their lower quality lubricants.

Regards, David

 

[Robert Lai]

The Russian solution to very low temperatures is actually no lubrication at all. This was written about in "The Blond Knight of Germany" - a biography of WW2 German fighter ace Erich Hartmann. A Russian POW showed the Germans how to prevent their guns from jamming in the cold. He put the jammed gun into gasoline to degrease it. After waiting for the solvent to evaporate, the gun fired reliably in the coldest weather.

Whether or not this Russian committed treason by assisting the enemy in this way is another question. The jamming of machinery with cold weather was a real problem. Elsewhere in the book, it was described that Hartmann flew over the bodies of German brigades cut up by Russian cavalry. The Germans' guns had frozen, so they were unable to defend against Russian sabres.

 

[farlymac]

Super Lube! -43c to +232c range of use. Find it in your hardware store, or at http://www.micro-tools.com/store/home.aspx
I use it on all my cameras. My I-22 is so smooth on focus now, it's hard to tell it's such an old lens.

PF

 

[KoNickon]

The Russian solution to very low temperatures is actually no lubrication at all. This was written about in "The Blond Knight of Germany" - a biography of WW2 German fighter ace Erich Hartmann. A Russian POW showed the Germans how to prevent their guns from jamming in the cold. He put the jammed gun into gasoline to degrease it. After waiting for the solvent to evaporate, the gun fired reliably in the coldest weather.

Whether or not this Russian committed treason by assisting the enemy in this way is another question. The jamming of machinery with cold weather was a real problem. Elsewhere in the book, it was described that Hartmann flew over the bodies of German brigades cut up by Russian cavalry. The Germans' guns had frozen, so they were unable to defend against Russian sabres.

Another trick the Germans learned from Soviet POWs was to put gasoline in the oil sumps of their aircraft in extreme cold conditions -- thinned out the oil enough to enable the engines to function. The Germans were sure the engines would burst into flame, but I think the petrol simply cooked off.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . However, the grease idea is just as much speculation, so perhaps we'd both better stop, for lack of facts.

WHAT? I shall refer you to the House Un-Internet Activities Committee!

Cheers,

R.