caila77
Well-known
A couple of years ago I reed somewhere on the web about the possibility to use a combination of Hc-110 and rodinal to develop some film like tri-x. Hc-110 is quite compensative developer and have a very good capacity to work with low lights but not very good with the high. The post mentioned the possibility to use HC-110 (B) + few ml of Rodinal. Did someone know something or tried to use this strange combination?
regards
regards
x-ray
Veteran
HC-110 / Ilford HC at 1:31 are extremely good at retaining highlights with most films. Rodinal and HC or HC-110 are both very full tonal scale developers. I tend to use Rodinal with fine grain films like Efke 25 and Ilford HC (HC110) with all others. The results are very comperable.
As to mixing the two? I was a chenistry and microbiology major in college and have a good knowledge of photo chemistry. I don't think there would be much gain by mixing the two together. I have in past years used two different variations of Rodinal to push film to high ISO ratings. In the years past before HC-110 I used a mix of Rodinal that I found in a Leica magazine. I had extremely goo results with OLD Tri-X and Rodinal 1:100 with 100mg of anhydrous sodium sulfite per liter of working solution. My developement times were arounf 14 min at 68F with 5 sec. agitation every 30 sec. in a stainless steel tank. Many of the images in my gallery were done with this combo. When I needed a real push in ASA I did the initial developement in the sulfite / Rodinal combo and then desensatized the film and developed by inspection in 1:25 Rodinal with no sulfite. Times could get quite long but it worked very well. The sulfite / Rodinal at 1:100 seemec to set the grain pattern and the high concentration of straight 1:25 gave a major speed bump with out building heavy grain. Rimes could run up to thirty minutes. The KKK images and carnival stripper were done this way. One im,portant thing to remember if you do the sulfite modification is to mix the sulfite with the water and adjust the temp to 68F after the mix, before adding the Rodinal. The adding of sulfite to water releases heat and the temp will rise a few degrees and change your dev. time. When mixing the sulfite try not to disolve much air into the mix. Rodinal is easily oxidized in this dilution and will not give good negs if there is much oxidation.
If you want real compensation try PYRO or better for small negs use an alternating water bath at thirty second or one minuter intervals with HC-110 or HC. Thirty seconds in 1:31 HC and thirty sec. in H2O and repeat over and over. You will have to experiment on times. Process time will dramatically rise. Film developement is a typical REDOX reduction/oxidation process. The silver halide is reduced to metalic silver and the developer is oxidized. The more dense silver areas oxidize the developer faster (highlights) than the lower silver density areas (shadows). When the film is saturated with a developer and emersed in H2O with no agitation the highlights oxidize the developer they contain faster than the shadows.The highlights stop developing while the shadows are continuing to develope. Re saturating and repeating the process allows the shadows to develope more fully and the highlights to be retarded. The advantage of HC / HC-110 and Rodinal (no sulfite) is the lack of sulfite that causes hifhlights to block more easily. When silver is wet on the emulsion it has polar characrteristics. It has mobility and the sodium sulfite disolves or etches some of the silver and allows it to migrate by polar attraction to the highlights where it is deposited but forms no image. It just becomes a veil over the highlights. Because Rodinal and HC do not have sulfite this does not happen. The results are a more open highlight that prints with full detail.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045
As to mixing the two? I was a chenistry and microbiology major in college and have a good knowledge of photo chemistry. I don't think there would be much gain by mixing the two together. I have in past years used two different variations of Rodinal to push film to high ISO ratings. In the years past before HC-110 I used a mix of Rodinal that I found in a Leica magazine. I had extremely goo results with OLD Tri-X and Rodinal 1:100 with 100mg of anhydrous sodium sulfite per liter of working solution. My developement times were arounf 14 min at 68F with 5 sec. agitation every 30 sec. in a stainless steel tank. Many of the images in my gallery were done with this combo. When I needed a real push in ASA I did the initial developement in the sulfite / Rodinal combo and then desensatized the film and developed by inspection in 1:25 Rodinal with no sulfite. Times could get quite long but it worked very well. The sulfite / Rodinal at 1:100 seemec to set the grain pattern and the high concentration of straight 1:25 gave a major speed bump with out building heavy grain. Rimes could run up to thirty minutes. The KKK images and carnival stripper were done this way. One im,portant thing to remember if you do the sulfite modification is to mix the sulfite with the water and adjust the temp to 68F after the mix, before adding the Rodinal. The adding of sulfite to water releases heat and the temp will rise a few degrees and change your dev. time. When mixing the sulfite try not to disolve much air into the mix. Rodinal is easily oxidized in this dilution and will not give good negs if there is much oxidation.
If you want real compensation try PYRO or better for small negs use an alternating water bath at thirty second or one minuter intervals with HC-110 or HC. Thirty seconds in 1:31 HC and thirty sec. in H2O and repeat over and over. You will have to experiment on times. Process time will dramatically rise. Film developement is a typical REDOX reduction/oxidation process. The silver halide is reduced to metalic silver and the developer is oxidized. The more dense silver areas oxidize the developer faster (highlights) than the lower silver density areas (shadows). When the film is saturated with a developer and emersed in H2O with no agitation the highlights oxidize the developer they contain faster than the shadows.The highlights stop developing while the shadows are continuing to develope. Re saturating and repeating the process allows the shadows to develope more fully and the highlights to be retarded. The advantage of HC / HC-110 and Rodinal (no sulfite) is the lack of sulfite that causes hifhlights to block more easily. When silver is wet on the emulsion it has polar characrteristics. It has mobility and the sodium sulfite disolves or etches some of the silver and allows it to migrate by polar attraction to the highlights where it is deposited but forms no image. It just becomes a veil over the highlights. Because Rodinal and HC do not have sulfite this does not happen. The results are a more open highlight that prints with full detail.
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045
http://www.rangefinderforum.com/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=5045
GeneW
Veteran
I've not heard of HC-110 + Rodinal, but here's a link on combining XTOL + Rodinal:
http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=183
Gene
http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=183
Gene
caila77
Well-known
Thank you very much for your answers, I think that I'll try to combinate Hc-110 + rodinal and I'll post the result on this forum
regards
regards
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
x-ray: Funny enough, I was looking at your gallery last night and found the highlights of the Rodinal negs to be quite lovely; the Cat & Fiddle shot is a great example, as is the fire eater.
I am curious as to how you desensitized the film between the two baths, and if you recall both EI for the TX and times for the two baths. I realize it was a long time ago and the film emulsion has changed a bit.
Great gallery.
Earl
I am curious as to how you desensitized the film between the two baths, and if you recall both EI for the TX and times for the two baths. I realize it was a long time ago and the film emulsion has changed a bit.
Great gallery.
Earl