Congratulations to all Americans!

S

Spoks

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We have just watched president Obama sign the Health Care Reform Bill on TV over here in Europe. A significant and historical event with far reaching implications. And a touching ceremony. It's not a perfect bill, but it is on the right track.

Congratulations to all Americans here!
 
OK, I give up. Why has this thread been started twice, with the exact same opening, namely

"We have just watched president Obama sign the Health Care Reform Bill on TV over here in Europe. A significant and historical event with far reaching implications. And a touching ceremony. It's not a perfect bill, but it is on the right track.

Congratulations to all Americans here!"

but by two different userids?
 
Did anyone take a picture with a film rangefinder camera? That might be the only way to see what develops ;) from the bill.
 
The previous thread, started by Olsen, seems to have been hidden. It doesn't show under live topics but is visible under 'Off Topic'.

I don't understand why this is.

Ernst
 
Its nothing to be congratulated on. The health care bill is worthless to the working poor. Worse than worthless, actually. If you're low income and cannot afford health insurance, they don't give it to you, they FINE you $2500 and they collect it via the IRS so if you can't pay, you go to prison. This is evil. The USA has long been a hostile place for the working poor. Today, we've been stripped of our last vestiges of civil rights.
 
Chris is right! Its a horrible bill. Thirteen States have filed a suit to challenge its constitutionality. Mandating that people buy insurance or be fined is not going to fly IMO.
 
Further proof that Government in the US is simply for the corporations nowadays. Now if this was a single payer system I'd be applauding.
 
Spoks said:
We have just watched president Obama sign the Health Care Reform Bill on TV over here in Europe. A significant and historical event with far reaching implications. And a touching ceremony. It's not a perfect bill, but it is on the right track.

Congratulations to all Americans here!
Click to expand...

TROLL -- go away
 
The Washington Post has a calculator on their website so you can see how the health bill would affect you. You put in size of household, your income, and if you have insurance now or not. Just for giggles, I put in $15,000 for income. That's what someone earning the current USA minimum wage of $7.25 an hour earns a year. It is deep poverty even for one person to earn so little. More than half the jobs where I live pay exactly that. Here a single person with no kids cannot live on less than $20,000 a year. You just simply cannot. Not if you want to eat and have a roof over your head.

Ok, so I tell the calculator that my income is $15,000 and I have just me. It says I'll be fined $695 a year because I am too poor to have health insurance! Now, someone earning so little hasn't got $695 to give the government. If I make that income with me and my son, my fine doubles!

In the past, this kind of taxation of the poor would have brought on armed rebellion. King George III, that "Tyrant", as the founders of our country called him (he was the king of the most democratic nation on the face of the Earth at the time!) did not tax the American colonists so regressively. Its time we sent delegates to Her Majesty and got on our knees to beg Queen Elizabeth to PLEASE send us a colonial governor. Time to admit the truth, the American experiment has failed. Can we let Spain have New Mexico back?
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
Me too. Instead, we get more corporate control and the force of government forcing people to buy the overpriced corporate insurance.
Click to expand...

That's what I just haven't been able to get since they started talking about this- why is handing over more money to the very companies that five years ago were the devil in heathcare spending gone amok reform?? By forcing them to take you even if you are sick? That's not reform. Most telling thing is how much quiet support the insurance companies gave to this, and how most healthcare stocks went UP yesterday.
 
sepiareverb said:
That's what I just haven't been able to get since they started talking about this- why is handing over more money to the very companies that five years ago were the devil in heathcare spending gone amok reform?? By forcing them to take you even if you are sick? That's not reform. Most telling thing is how much quiet support the insurance companies gave to this, and how most healthcare stocks went UP yesterday.
Click to expand...

Right, and I don't get the conservative Republican opposition. This is a giveaway to THEM not to ordinary people.
 
Chriscrawfordphoto said:
If you're low income and cannot afford health insurance, they don't give it to you, they FINE you $2500 and they collect it via the IRS so if you can't pay, you go to prison
Click to expand...

Although I agree with you completely that this bill is worthless for the working poor, I disagree with your statement that "if you can't pay, you'll go to prison". Although the IRS has been given authority to collect the penalty, they have no means of enforcing it, as the law presently stands. They also can't charge you interest or penalty on the amount of the fine not paid. That's because it's not considered a tax and that's why they don't have enforcement authority as they do with normal income taxes.

Bottom line is you won't go to prison.

Ellen
 
Congratulations Americans, for being more Canadian! :)

The bill is flawed, but think about it: this is the best bill possible that could get enough votes. If the bill was more radical (single payer) it would not have passed. Then Americans would have had to wait for four more years, while insurance companies cranked their prices by 25% a year.

The bill has a few clear benefits that will kick in right away:

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/what-you-get-when-hcr-passes
  1. Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday
  2. Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions
  3. No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage
  4. Free preventative care for all
  5. Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.
  6. Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.
  7. The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.
  8. Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.
  9. Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.
  10. AND no more rescissions. Effective immediately, you can't lose your insurance because you get sick.
 
antiquark said:
Congratulations Americans, for being more Canadian! :)

The bill is flawed, but think about it: this is the best bill possible that could get enough votes. If the bill was more radical (single payer) it would not have passed. Then Americans would have had to wait for four more years, while insurance companies cranked their prices by 25% a year.

The bill has a few clear benefits that will kick in right away:

http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/what-you-get-when-hcr-passes
  1. Adult children may remain as dependents on their parents’ policy until their 27th birthday
  2. Children under age 19 may not be excluded for pre-existing conditions
  3. No more lifetime or annual caps on coverage
  4. Free preventative care for all
  5. Adults with pre-existing conditions may buy into a national high-risk pool until the exchanges come online. While these will not be cheap, they’re still better than total exclusion and get some benefit from a wider pool of insureds.
  6. Small businesses will be entitled to a tax credit for 2009 and 2010, which could be as much as 50% of what they pay for employees’ health insurance.
  7. The “donut hole” closes for Medicare patients, making prescription medications more affordable for seniors.
  8. Requirement that all insurers must post their balance sheets on the Internet and fully disclose administrative costs, executive compensation packages, and benefit payments.
  9. Authorizes early funding of community health centers in all 50 states (Bernie Sanders’ amendment). Community health centers provide primary, dental and vision services to people in the community, based on a sliding scale for payment according to ability to pay.
  10. AND no more rescissions. Effective immediately, you can't lose your insurance because you get sick.
Click to expand...

Dear Derek,

This strikes non-Republicans, and especially non-Americans, as the hardest bit to argue with.

Cheers,

R.
 
No gimmicks, this is FAR worse than the old system. I don't have insurance now because I cannot afford it, but I wasn't punished for it. Now I and millions of other poor people who work WILL be punished. The non-working welfare queens will, of course, get it all handed to them free, no penalties, but the working poor as usual get f--ked.
 
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