DaveMcQueen
Newbie
As the title says, I'm seriously considering changing to an M3 and I'm wondering what I should expect.
I have a D700 with a bag of fast lenses, a variety of primes and zooms (f2.8 from 17-200mm). I have no plans to discard that line completely as I shoot sports and my wife uses them whenever she wants.
I'm seriously considering getting an M3 (and a lens...) and I'm hoping some of you can help me with what to expect.
Yes, I realise that it'll be film and a rangefinder, so I'll be looking though the finder and not through the lens. I wouldn't be able to do macro photography very easily. It'd be manual focus, and I'd be guessing and practising. I'd need to get my film processed and scanned so I can take it into Lightroom.
But apart from the obvious, what should I expect? Additionally, do you have any lens recommendations for me?
Thanks in advance.
I have a D700 with a bag of fast lenses, a variety of primes and zooms (f2.8 from 17-200mm). I have no plans to discard that line completely as I shoot sports and my wife uses them whenever she wants.
I'm seriously considering getting an M3 (and a lens...) and I'm hoping some of you can help me with what to expect.
Yes, I realise that it'll be film and a rangefinder, so I'll be looking though the finder and not through the lens. I wouldn't be able to do macro photography very easily. It'd be manual focus, and I'd be guessing and practising. I'd need to get my film processed and scanned so I can take it into Lightroom.
But apart from the obvious, what should I expect? Additionally, do you have any lens recommendations for me?
Thanks in advance.
bfffer
Established
Very different camera
Expect full manual, no iso change, weak telephoto, weak macro.
Some calibration of rf an lens.
Other than that its wonderful shoting experience.
Expect full manual, no iso change, weak telephoto, weak macro.
Some calibration of rf an lens.
Other than that its wonderful shoting experience.
bfffer
Established
Maybe expect to burn through tri-x in light speed?
JMQ
Well-known
Sounds like you are just adding an M3 to your Nikon DSLR line up. As bfffer said, very different camera (and experience). I'd say if your budget allows it, go for it. You can resell at pretty close to your purchase price if you don't like it.
Stuart John
Well-known
I've been considering a Leica M since about 1998. I've done the Canonets, the Feds, the Zorkis I've even got a Leica IIIa. I've got as far as the camera store with money in pocket and cameras in bag for part exchanged but still have not pulled the trigger on an M. I still don't know why I haven't got one.
SolaresLarrave
My M5s need red dots!
I went from SLRs to rangefinders at some point, but then, from a Canonet to Contax G and then Leicas. Why don't you do a dry run before plunking a good chunk of cash on something you may NOT like??
See if you can lay your hands on a Canonet III 17QL, or a Konica S2 first. Both cameras offer the use of a meter (in case you're not ready to wean yourself from it), and also can go entirely manual (should you want to find out what it is). The lenses are similar to what you would have with a Leica M3 (the Canonet has a 40mm and the Konica a 45mm, both fairly fast, at f1.7 or thereabouts). Buy one from eBay (see to purchase from expert sellers) or from KEH, have it for as long as you need until you reach a conclusion: you either like it, or not.
I'll tell you: in my case, it felt liberating and releasing. The bulk of the SLR was gone, and even though all the bells and whistles also disappeared, I felt suddently freer and more creative to take the photographs I saw or wanted (I like street photography). Later, I started using meterless cameras, and I came to enjoy the process even more. Mind you, I don't consider myself a photographer; I'm just an enthusiast, or photography geek, but at least I try to have fun while I'm at it.
So, take it into consideration. Before getting your feet wet, just dip your toes and find out whether it's for you or not.
See if you can lay your hands on a Canonet III 17QL, or a Konica S2 first. Both cameras offer the use of a meter (in case you're not ready to wean yourself from it), and also can go entirely manual (should you want to find out what it is). The lenses are similar to what you would have with a Leica M3 (the Canonet has a 40mm and the Konica a 45mm, both fairly fast, at f1.7 or thereabouts). Buy one from eBay (see to purchase from expert sellers) or from KEH, have it for as long as you need until you reach a conclusion: you either like it, or not.
I'll tell you: in my case, it felt liberating and releasing. The bulk of the SLR was gone, and even though all the bells and whistles also disappeared, I felt suddently freer and more creative to take the photographs I saw or wanted (I like street photography). Later, I started using meterless cameras, and I came to enjoy the process even more. Mind you, I don't consider myself a photographer; I'm just an enthusiast, or photography geek, but at least I try to have fun while I'm at it.
So, take it into consideration. Before getting your feet wet, just dip your toes and find out whether it's for you or not.
Range-rover
Veteran
I would keep the Nikon and get a M3, it's a different working experience but it always
good to have digital as back up.
Range
good to have digital as back up.
Range
hellomikmik
Well-known
Expect lot of fun, personally I would recommend to set up a darkroom and print by yourself on fibre paper - take the computer out of the pipeline. But don't sell your D700 - you know how great machine it is.
For M3 I would get silver C-Sonnar 50/1.5 and shoot it in the beginning at f2.8+.
For M3 I would get silver C-Sonnar 50/1.5 and shoot it in the beginning at f2.8+.
Wburgess
Established
When did he say he was planning on selling the Nikon?!
If you can afford the M3 just go for it! As previous have said, you will get your money back if you don't like it... Avoid the canonets etc, why try something that might put you of a Leica you will love? (Although they are good cameras)
As for what to expect... Frustration at first, start practicing using the d700 in manual. Picture quality, I love the look for colour film, more so than digital... Maybe not the same level of detail, but when is that ever a deciding factor!?
Black and white, think about a darkroom, again frustrating and expect flat dull images at first. But when you start to learn and get better, the output can be outstanding.
Good Luck
If you can afford the M3 just go for it! As previous have said, you will get your money back if you don't like it... Avoid the canonets etc, why try something that might put you of a Leica you will love? (Although they are good cameras)
As for what to expect... Frustration at first, start practicing using the d700 in manual. Picture quality, I love the look for colour film, more so than digital... Maybe not the same level of detail, but when is that ever a deciding factor!?
Black and white, think about a darkroom, again frustrating and expect flat dull images at first. But when you start to learn and get better, the output can be outstanding.
Good Luck
Gregoyle
Well-known
Buying an M3 and Leica lenses is a lot like borrowing them. If you got a reasonable price on each when you bought them, you can sell them and maybe pay a few dollars in shipping and Paypal fees.
-Greg
-Greg
thegman
Veteran
I think you seem to know just about everything to expect. I'd say a few things to be aware of:
Film is very slow compared to modern digital, so if you're used to handholding 1/1000th of a second shots at 6400 ISO, you may need to get used to handholding slower speeds, and the shake that comes with it.
If you want the sort of image quality (i.e. resolution) then you've got to work for it on film. i.e. to get FF digital sort of resolution, you're looking at ISO 100 films and under, like Ektar 100 or Velvia.
Other than that, I think you know what's coming. For film, I think Ilford XP2 is a great film as it's B&W, very smooth grain, and forgiving of both under and over exposure. It's a great 'benchmark' to compare other B&W films to in my opinion.
Film is very slow compared to modern digital, so if you're used to handholding 1/1000th of a second shots at 6400 ISO, you may need to get used to handholding slower speeds, and the shake that comes with it.
If you want the sort of image quality (i.e. resolution) then you've got to work for it on film. i.e. to get FF digital sort of resolution, you're looking at ISO 100 films and under, like Ektar 100 or Velvia.
Other than that, I think you know what's coming. For film, I think Ilford XP2 is a great film as it's B&W, very smooth grain, and forgiving of both under and over exposure. It's a great 'benchmark' to compare other B&W films to in my opinion.
Keith
The best camera is one that still works!
The M3 is no mystery tour and it's not some magical device. Shutter, aperture and focus ... the same as photography has always been.
Glad you're keeping the D700 because that's about as good as it gets in DSLR land.
Glad you're keeping the D700 because that's about as good as it gets in DSLR land.
boomguy57
Well-known
Maybe I'd recommend a Zeiss Ikon? A little more modern and some automation, plus the finder (OH...that finder!) is better than the M3 (heresy!) IMO.
Ikon's are pretty cheap, unless the total-manual-HCB-thing is the most appealing part for you.
Ikon's are pretty cheap, unless the total-manual-HCB-thing is the most appealing part for you.
furcafe
Veteran
I'm overwhelmingly a rangefinder guy, but I would seriously consider getting a Canonet or whatever to see if you actually like RFs & also get an old plain prism F or F2 for that old school film SLR experience. Also, even if you have to buy Ai or AF-D lenses, you'll be able to use them on your D700.
If you do get an M3, just get a good, reasonably fast 50, of which there are many in either LTM or M mount.
If you do get an M3, just get a good, reasonably fast 50, of which there are many in either LTM or M mount.
maddoc
... likes film again.
You will be limiting yourself a lot with an M3 ... practically usable focal lengths are 50 and 90mm (135 mm is possible but not really recommended). All other focal length require external VF.
Using the M3 is easy if you take your time. Concentrate on one film only at first, something like Tri-X or HP5plus, films that are easy to use with respect to exposure. Also a lot depends on developing, if you can develop yourself it would be best and add to the experience. Don`t expect much from lab-processing or lab-scans, most are not sufficient good to really show what a Leitz / leica lens is capable of.
The M3`s problem is that these are old cameras and many in bad shape, parts are worn, dirt in the gears and maybe other surprises as light leaks or holes in the shutter. The same is valid for other old M Leicas like the M2, M4, or M5. So you would have to calculate some money for a decent overhaul to really enjoy using the camera except you are really lucky and fine one that has been well taken care of.
If it has to be the M3 then the 50mm Summicron rigid or DR would be the best fit for this camera. Stunning results in BW but only with good processing / scanning or preferably printing in your own darkroom.
Less troublesome, less limitations in focal length would be a Leica M4-P / M6.
Using the M3 is easy if you take your time. Concentrate on one film only at first, something like Tri-X or HP5plus, films that are easy to use with respect to exposure. Also a lot depends on developing, if you can develop yourself it would be best and add to the experience. Don`t expect much from lab-processing or lab-scans, most are not sufficient good to really show what a Leitz / leica lens is capable of.
The M3`s problem is that these are old cameras and many in bad shape, parts are worn, dirt in the gears and maybe other surprises as light leaks or holes in the shutter. The same is valid for other old M Leicas like the M2, M4, or M5. So you would have to calculate some money for a decent overhaul to really enjoy using the camera except you are really lucky and fine one that has been well taken care of.
If it has to be the M3 then the 50mm Summicron rigid or DR would be the best fit for this camera. Stunning results in BW but only with good processing / scanning or preferably printing in your own darkroom.
Less troublesome, less limitations in focal length would be a Leica M4-P / M6.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Being a photographer already, you may know the answer to this:
Do you pick 50mm or 35mm as your "standard" or "most useful" focal length?
If you answer with 50mm, then M3 is a great choice.
If the answer is 35mm (my answer too), then you'd be better served by an M4 variant (I personally vouch for M4-P).
Other than that, good luck and welcome to the expansion of your photographic-horizon.
Do you pick 50mm or 35mm as your "standard" or "most useful" focal length?
If you answer with 50mm, then M3 is a great choice.
If the answer is 35mm (my answer too), then you'd be better served by an M4 variant (I personally vouch for M4-P).
Other than that, good luck and welcome to the expansion of your photographic-horizon.
cosmonaut
Well-known
I think the M4 is a better choice. It's easier to load as you don't have to remove the spoil and the finder is better. But that's me. A few years ago you couldn't touch an M4 under a grand but now they are everywhere.
Thardy
Veteran
My advice is that if money is not really a problem just get an M6. You'll get the ultimate film RF experience. Pretty much manual everything, plus awkward bottom film loading.
Don't bother with all those old, dilapidated RF cameras that most likely won't work properly.
A fully manual film RF has its challenges so make sure you don't handicap yourself right off the bat, especially coming from using a Nikon D700.
Good luck.
Don't bother with all those old, dilapidated RF cameras that most likely won't work properly.
A fully manual film RF has its challenges so make sure you don't handicap yourself right off the bat, especially coming from using a Nikon D700.
Good luck.
gb hill
Veteran
One thing you can expect is that you will be able to slow down & really enjoy photography. An M or any RF camera is a relaxing companion to take a stroll with.
Ronald M
Veteran
You can expect a 50+ year old camera that needs a cla, possibly new shutter curtains, new light shields, new film transport, a rangefinder that is glued with Canadian Balsam and is now weak. This is the common stuff. Add light leaks, streaks on the film.
This is like trading a Ferrari in on a dump truck.
At least buy a digital M9 or a cheap RF for <$50 that works.
And I forgot about fogged lenses and sticky focus. All fixable at great cost which you can not recoup on a resale.
This is like trading a Ferrari in on a dump truck.
At least buy a digital M9 or a cheap RF for <$50 that works.
And I forgot about fogged lenses and sticky focus. All fixable at great cost which you can not recoup on a resale.