error404
Newbie
Hi everyone,
After reading posts here and elsewhere, and watching videos of people taking iia's apart on youtube, I thought it wouldn't be too difficult to take apart my iiia just to clean its viewfinder/rangefinder. Ha ha. I regret everything that's transpired, and I really hope you can help.
Everything was fine until I realized I couldn't get the top plate off without removing the meter cover. Then:
Many thanks for your help!
After reading posts here and elsewhere, and watching videos of people taking iia's apart on youtube, I thought it wouldn't be too difficult to take apart my iiia just to clean its viewfinder/rangefinder. Ha ha. I regret everything that's transpired, and I really hope you can help.
Everything was fine until I realized I couldn't get the top plate off without removing the meter cover. Then:
- The moment I started loosening the screws that hold the meter flap down, the needle on my working meter stopped moving.
- After removing the meter flap, I discovered these two small bronze rings lying next to it on my work mat. I didn't see where they came from, so don't know how to put them back. :bang:
- I'm still unable to remove the front plate to accomplish my original mission of cleaning the viewfinder/rangefinder windows.
Many thanks for your help!
Attachments
error404
Newbie
Update, and follow-up question
Update, and follow-up question
Okay! I was able to finish disassembling and then cobble the camera back together with the help of this amazing repair manual. The rings were washers that must have fallen off screws on the top plate: after some process of elimination, I'm pretty sure I was able to find their original locations.
Unfortunately, the meter continues not to work. Since it was working until I tried to open it up, I'm 90% sure the connection on the left side of the meter (in the attached close-up photo) had frayed, but was held in place by the meter flap. When I loosened the flap, things moved, and though I've coaxed it back into place, it's no longer forming the connection it needs.
In case I ever muster up the courage to dive back in there, does anyone out there have any advice on repairing/fixing this connection? People are always talking about cleaning these contacts: how does that work?
Update, and follow-up question
Okay! I was able to finish disassembling and then cobble the camera back together with the help of this amazing repair manual. The rings were washers that must have fallen off screws on the top plate: after some process of elimination, I'm pretty sure I was able to find their original locations.
Unfortunately, the meter continues not to work. Since it was working until I tried to open it up, I'm 90% sure the connection on the left side of the meter (in the attached close-up photo) had frayed, but was held in place by the meter flap. When I loosened the flap, things moved, and though I've coaxed it back into place, it's no longer forming the connection it needs.
In case I ever muster up the courage to dive back in there, does anyone out there have any advice on repairing/fixing this connection? People are always talking about cleaning these contacts: how does that work?
Attachments
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I can't help you -- in fact I have a question of my own, which I hope you (or someone) can help me with. Sorry for the hijacking!
I pulled out of the closet an early (T serial number, so 1951-52) IIIa that someone had offered to work on some years back, which didn't go well. There was a short piece of black cord, somewhat rubberized, sticking out from under the meter dial (the large, bottom dial under the rewind knob).
The meter doesn't work -- I was wondering whether the stack of dials and knobs maybe hadn't been put back together correctly. So, thanks to the very helpful service manual you linked to in your post above, pages 30-31, I set to work. Once I removed the rewind knob I realized I was stymied: My camera has a somewhat different arrangement than what's shown in the service manual -- no plate with three screws to remove, which the instructions indicate enable you to remove all the knobs/dials down to the top plate. The manual says "In the case of setting knobs of a different design, which cannot be remounted without readjustment of the cam disk," the camera would have to be sent back to the factory for service. I am assuming this camera is one of these, so I'm out of luck it seems -- can't figure out how to remove all the knobs since there are no obvious screws to remove that would let me lift the knobs off. Hopefully someone out there knows.
But here's what I was wondering about: Regarding that short piece of rubberized cord, did you find something similar when you removed the meter dials on your IIIa? I am wondering whether it serves the purpose of keeping the film speed dial immobile when the large bottom dial (with the shutter speeds) is turned. So maybe this cord (or ring, I guess) fits around the film speed dial somewhere? I haven't yet found an exploded diagram of this assembly -- the picture in the service manual doesn't show it. I only know that the film speed dial on this camera will not stay on the set film speed, so I am wondering whether it's because this piece has broken and come loose.
Great cameras, but really frightening to try opening up!
I pulled out of the closet an early (T serial number, so 1951-52) IIIa that someone had offered to work on some years back, which didn't go well. There was a short piece of black cord, somewhat rubberized, sticking out from under the meter dial (the large, bottom dial under the rewind knob).
The meter doesn't work -- I was wondering whether the stack of dials and knobs maybe hadn't been put back together correctly. So, thanks to the very helpful service manual you linked to in your post above, pages 30-31, I set to work. Once I removed the rewind knob I realized I was stymied: My camera has a somewhat different arrangement than what's shown in the service manual -- no plate with three screws to remove, which the instructions indicate enable you to remove all the knobs/dials down to the top plate. The manual says "In the case of setting knobs of a different design, which cannot be remounted without readjustment of the cam disk," the camera would have to be sent back to the factory for service. I am assuming this camera is one of these, so I'm out of luck it seems -- can't figure out how to remove all the knobs since there are no obvious screws to remove that would let me lift the knobs off. Hopefully someone out there knows.
But here's what I was wondering about: Regarding that short piece of rubberized cord, did you find something similar when you removed the meter dials on your IIIa? I am wondering whether it serves the purpose of keeping the film speed dial immobile when the large bottom dial (with the shutter speeds) is turned. So maybe this cord (or ring, I guess) fits around the film speed dial somewhere? I haven't yet found an exploded diagram of this assembly -- the picture in the service manual doesn't show it. I only know that the film speed dial on this camera will not stay on the set film speed, so I am wondering whether it's because this piece has broken and come loose.
Great cameras, but really frightening to try opening up!
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
I did find an exploded diagram, on p.38 of the same manual. No indication of any such rubberized ring. But again, the design of my IIIa may be somewhat different from that depicted in the manual.
error404
Newbie
Very interesting! My camera (B serial number, so 1953-54) didn't have any black material under the meter adjustment knob.
However, the Kiev Survival Site shows that Kiev's (and presumably the pre-war Contax iii they're based on) have a black carbon resistor element under the meter knob. If your camera is very early, perhaps the meter retains some elements of the earlier meter design?
Hang in there, I definitely went through all five stages of grief before I got it assembled and running again. Best of luck!
However, the Kiev Survival Site shows that Kiev's (and presumably the pre-war Contax iii they're based on) have a black carbon resistor element under the meter knob. If your camera is very early, perhaps the meter retains some elements of the earlier meter design?
Hang in there, I definitely went through all five stages of grief before I got it assembled and running again. Best of luck!
KoNickon
Nick Merritt
Thanks for that link. The Kiev Survival Site is terrific! But from the drawings and photos I've seen of the meter assembly on Henry Scherer's site, the IIIa meter dial doesn't appear to use the resistor track design, but rather employs a cam that's linked to the meter mechanism. Maybe the meter on mine does use some sort of resistor track, but I haven't been able to dismantle the meter dial in order to confirm that. The rubberized band piece I was talking is definitely not part of the resistor track, as far as I can tell from the Kiev design as shown at the Kiev site.
Interesting that the Kiev meter dial housing looks identical to the IIIa's, rather than that of the Contax III. Makes me think the Arsenal folks copied the IIIa layout. Unfortunately, the layout of the Kiev shown is the same as that of the IIIa in the ZI manual, which is different from mine. Specifically, once you remove the rewind shaft there's a disc with three screws. Once those screws are removed, you can lift off the various discs, washers etc. And that disc with the three screws appears to rest on a flange of the film speed disc, which probably is what provides sufficient friction to keep the film speed disc from shifting off the set speed.
The meter dial on my camera has no such plate with screws, so I can't figure out how to disassemble it. The only possible thing I see is that the shutter speed and aperture dial, which is at the bottom of the "stack," has three tiny screws around the circumference that apparently hold it in place. I break out in a cold sweat thinking about loosening those and potentially having to remove them entirely (and trying to reinstall them, assuming I don't lose them first!).
Interesting that the Kiev meter dial housing looks identical to the IIIa's, rather than that of the Contax III. Makes me think the Arsenal folks copied the IIIa layout. Unfortunately, the layout of the Kiev shown is the same as that of the IIIa in the ZI manual, which is different from mine. Specifically, once you remove the rewind shaft there's a disc with three screws. Once those screws are removed, you can lift off the various discs, washers etc. And that disc with the three screws appears to rest on a flange of the film speed disc, which probably is what provides sufficient friction to keep the film speed disc from shifting off the set speed.
The meter dial on my camera has no such plate with screws, so I can't figure out how to disassemble it. The only possible thing I see is that the shutter speed and aperture dial, which is at the bottom of the "stack," has three tiny screws around the circumference that apparently hold it in place. I break out in a cold sweat thinking about loosening those and potentially having to remove them entirely (and trying to reinstall them, assuming I don't lose them first!).
RIMG0746 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickrhttp://rick_oleson.tripod.com/index-62.html
Some 4.5 years ago I had a Zeiss Contax and Kiev 3 Weekend- took apart a IIIa, IIa, II, Kiev 3a- Took a couple of pictures, but did these using Rick Oleson's instructions. These are available for Download for $15.
http://rick_oleson.tripod.com/
They cover hundreds of cameras and lenses. Well worth getting. ANYWAY! That's how I did this. I was able to bring a IIIa color dial back to life, I just checked the shutter now, all working- then remembered Rick's instructions. I was able to hit "just the spot" with a little camera oil. $99 Contax IIIa Color-Dial with a 5cm F2.8 Tessar, camera "not working". Again- well worth the $15.
With all the screws, springs, small pieces: I use an old cafeteria tray lined with small bubble wrap and white paper towels. I use Ice Cube Trays to keep all the parts in order. Fill up the tray taking apart, empty the tray in reverse order. The Contax- I might have used Two trays.