traveler_101
American abroad
I am thinking about getting another camera - that I don't need (lol). I already have a Leica IIIf that I love and use most of the time when shooting a film camera and a Bessa-R which I use occasionally. I have several LTM lenses. The most I ever paid for a lens was $300 for a CV Ultron 35 f/1.7 and about the same for my Elmar 5cm f/3.5.
I have thought about a Leica M2 but the price point and the cost of M lenses has put me off. I wanted a Summaron 35 f/2.8 - now $1200 or more. I realise you can use a converter for LTM lenses, but something bothers about paying a lot of money for a camera with a capability that I probably would not use.
When you look at the prices of the Canon rangefinders: it seems like a lot for the money. The 7 has been described as a really great piece of machinery, the equal in some ways to the early Leica Ms. I also love the 7 because it looks like its era, moderne, and has that great selenium meter hooked to the shutter speed - lol. (Well, it reminds me of the meter on the Canon FX SLR (1964) I once owned). I don't use meters that much; I shoot b&w and tend to meter when I start shooting or when there is a tricky scene. And of course, if I need metering for colour film I have the Bessa. But I think the meter on the 7 is definitely cool and would like to see if I could make it work.
I have thought about matching the Canon 7 with a Serener 50mm f/1.8 - perhaps buying the camera and lens together. I also have a Canon 100mm f/3.5 sitting around and there is the CV Ultron 35 to use with it. (I wonder if the Ultron blocks the viewfinder as it does on the Bessa-R).
Buying a camera now approaching 60 years old is a risky proposition, but then again the prices are quite low - so I am willing to take that risk. My main concern - besides feeling that this is an unnecessary purchase - is whether I will be able to focus with the 7's finder or not. My favourite finder is on the Leica IIIf actually; I find the 1.5x magnification helps me greatly and the contrasty patch is easier to use than the one on the Bessa-R. Somewhere I read that the Canon 7 finder is great, but not as easy to use as the Bessa - which would mean probably unusable for me. It also "chews" glasses, according to Dante Stella. I wear glasses.
Does anyone have experience with the 7, especially in comparison with the cameras I mention?
I have thought about a Leica M2 but the price point and the cost of M lenses has put me off. I wanted a Summaron 35 f/2.8 - now $1200 or more. I realise you can use a converter for LTM lenses, but something bothers about paying a lot of money for a camera with a capability that I probably would not use.
When you look at the prices of the Canon rangefinders: it seems like a lot for the money. The 7 has been described as a really great piece of machinery, the equal in some ways to the early Leica Ms. I also love the 7 because it looks like its era, moderne, and has that great selenium meter hooked to the shutter speed - lol. (Well, it reminds me of the meter on the Canon FX SLR (1964) I once owned). I don't use meters that much; I shoot b&w and tend to meter when I start shooting or when there is a tricky scene. And of course, if I need metering for colour film I have the Bessa. But I think the meter on the 7 is definitely cool and would like to see if I could make it work.
I have thought about matching the Canon 7 with a Serener 50mm f/1.8 - perhaps buying the camera and lens together. I also have a Canon 100mm f/3.5 sitting around and there is the CV Ultron 35 to use with it. (I wonder if the Ultron blocks the viewfinder as it does on the Bessa-R).
Buying a camera now approaching 60 years old is a risky proposition, but then again the prices are quite low - so I am willing to take that risk. My main concern - besides feeling that this is an unnecessary purchase - is whether I will be able to focus with the 7's finder or not. My favourite finder is on the Leica IIIf actually; I find the 1.5x magnification helps me greatly and the contrasty patch is easier to use than the one on the Bessa-R. Somewhere I read that the Canon 7 finder is great, but not as easy to use as the Bessa - which would mean probably unusable for me. It also "chews" glasses, according to Dante Stella. I wear glasses.
Does anyone have experience with the 7, especially in comparison with the cameras I mention?
AndersG
Well-known
I can't compare the Canon 7 to either Leica or Bessa cameras as I have never used any of those, but a Canon 7 I have.
I use some pieces of tape to protect my glasses - might not look nice but works well for me.
The viewfinder is pretty nice and if I remember correctly about 0.85 in magnification. The rangefinder is much longer than on the Bessa R but, possibly, the edge of the rangefinder patch is worse on the Canon 7 than on Leica M (and Bessa). Of course, the state of the finder in a near 60 year old camera may vary a lot.
There are manually selectable frame lines for 35, 50, 85/100 and 135 mm lenses.
For me with glasses the 35 mm lines require me to move the eye to see all parts of them.
I suspect that trusting the 60 year old selenium light meter is not often a good idea - on my camera it doesn't work.
I use some pieces of tape to protect my glasses - might not look nice but works well for me.
The viewfinder is pretty nice and if I remember correctly about 0.85 in magnification. The rangefinder is much longer than on the Bessa R but, possibly, the edge of the rangefinder patch is worse on the Canon 7 than on Leica M (and Bessa). Of course, the state of the finder in a near 60 year old camera may vary a lot.
There are manually selectable frame lines for 35, 50, 85/100 and 135 mm lenses.
For me with glasses the 35 mm lines require me to move the eye to see all parts of them.
I suspect that trusting the 60 year old selenium light meter is not often a good idea - on my camera it doesn't work.
zwicko
Established
I very much prefer the Canon P. Might be worth considering.
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
7 is huge. Even P is bigger than M. I really see no reason for it for photography. For collection, why not. R also has 100mm frames.
traveler_101
American abroad
Huge might be good, as a change of pace (all my cameras film and digital are quite small). Who knows how it would feel in my hands?
By the way Ko-Fe, I think your struggles with the Leica M made me think twice about buying one. You replaced your M4-2 with a Bessa R3M and your M3 with a IIIg? Was it the M4 that had an incurable light leak+
Knock on wood, but my little IIIf has given zero troubles since I got her.
Robert Lai
Well-known
I have the Canon 7s, with the CdS meter instead of the now most likely dead selenium meter. It also gives you a real accessory shoe, which the Canon 7 lacks.
Compared to the Bessa R (best viewfinder of the lot, due to its modern coatings), and the IIIG, the 7s finder is excellent. It's easy to focus with.
I had the Canon FX before also, and the meter on the 7s is basically the same as on the FX. There is a high / low sensitivity setting, and a rotary on/ off/battery check switch on the back.
The 7s is a big camera, but about the size of the FX for comparison (without pentaprism, of course).
Not having to switch back and forth between the rangefinder window and the frame window is a big plus with the Canon LTM cameras vs the Leica Barnacks.
Compared to the Bessa R (best viewfinder of the lot, due to its modern coatings), and the IIIG, the 7s finder is excellent. It's easy to focus with.
I had the Canon FX before also, and the meter on the 7s is basically the same as on the FX. There is a high / low sensitivity setting, and a rotary on/ off/battery check switch on the back.
The 7s is a big camera, but about the size of the FX for comparison (without pentaprism, of course).
Not having to switch back and forth between the rangefinder window and the frame window is a big plus with the Canon LTM cameras vs the Leica Barnacks.
bgetty
Brandon Getty
I tried to make the switch from M2 to Canon P and just found it frustrating. Didn't get on with the size, angular body, and how it hung from my neck strap (I frequently wore it cross-body, bandolier style). My lens wasn't heavy enough to balance the body, so it tilted inward awkwardly and always peeved me. Sold it after a few rolls of film.
If I were in your shoes, I'd slap an M-mount adapter on your 35mm Ultron and save for a user M2 to pair it with. Good luck!
If I were in your shoes, I'd slap an M-mount adapter on your 35mm Ultron and save for a user M2 to pair it with. Good luck!
traveler_101
American abroad
Thanks for the information! It sounds as if you have no trouble focusing with your copy. I rarely worry much about frame lines on 35mm shots. 50 is a bit different. I read that the meters on the 7 often do work or can be taken apart and made to work. That might be fun to try. Light metering is available on smart phone app - I have been using one effectively. It is always available to check metering on other devices, unless you are shooting in a remote location.
Just a note about finders. My Leica IIIf is now approaching 70 years old, but it has had its beamsplitter replaced. The finder comes with a diopter and gives a 1.5 x magnification. It is very easy to focus, even for an old fogey like me. It is hard to imagine any other rangefinder camera equaling that.
Mackinaw
Think Different
I have no experience with the Bessa, or Leica IIIf but can offer this about the Canon 7, The viewfinder is pretty good. Big, bright with projected frame lines. A nice added touch is that the focal length will show beneath the selected frame lines. Major difference between a Canon 7 and a Leica M, is that the focusing spot of the 7 is rounded and “mushy.” The focusing rectangle of a Leica M is sharp-edged. I find focusing with a Leica M easier than a 7.
And the 7 isn’t that huge. It actually fits nicely in my hands and is comfortable to use.
Jim B.
And the 7 isn’t that huge. It actually fits nicely in my hands and is comfortable to use.
Jim B.
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
I have both, the Canon 7 and the Leica IIIf
They are both great cameras, but each has its own great shooting experience, the Canon 7 may be larger but easier to use and from a more modern era than the IIIf. You are more in the Leica M school of cameras with the Canon 7 and it has one of the best RFs in the Canon line along with the later 7s and 7sz camera bodies.
These last few years the Canon 7 body has been selling at give away prices (many were made) and for how long this lasts no one knows. I would grab one if I did not have a Canon 7.. even just to try it out..you can always sell it for what you bought it for if you do not bond with it.
They are both great cameras, but each has its own great shooting experience, the Canon 7 may be larger but easier to use and from a more modern era than the IIIf. You are more in the Leica M school of cameras with the Canon 7 and it has one of the best RFs in the Canon line along with the later 7s and 7sz camera bodies.
These last few years the Canon 7 body has been selling at give away prices (many were made) and for how long this lasts no one knows. I would grab one if I did not have a Canon 7.. even just to try it out..you can always sell it for what you bought it for if you do not bond with it.
traveler_101
American abroad
First person I found who had the FX! I loved that camera. Sounds like you are saying that the 7s holds up in the viewfinder department with the best of them? How did you replace the mercury battery in the meter?
Bingley
Veteran
I had a Canon 7 a few years ago. It was a nice camera w/ a good viewfinder. As others have noted, it's on the large size for a rangefinder, and my sample was nowhere near as smooth as the M2 I ultimately replaced it with. The basic Canon 7 does not have a built in accessory shoe, which I found limiting (I wanted to shoot a 28mm lens with it). I found the framelines easier to use on the Canon 7 than on the Canon P, due to the lower magnification of the 7's vf; I wear glasses and always found the 35mm framelines on the P impossible to see, and the Canon 7 was much better in that regard. The Canon 7's larger size means that it balances well w/ larger lenses, like the LTM CV Ultron 35. And it's certainly a robust camera -- "tank like" comes to mind. It's likely that the meter won't work on the basic 7, or won't be very accurate. When all is said and done, though, the 7 may be great value for money if you can find a good sample.
aizan
Veteran
Why? Look for something else to buy!
Another rangefinder is more of the same. Try something new. Something weird.
Another rangefinder is more of the same. Try something new. Something weird.
Swift1
Veteran
I have and use a Canon 7, Bessa R, and Leica M2.
The Canon 7 viewfinder and rangefinder isn't quite as good as the Bessa, but I think nearly everything else about the Canon 7 is better than the Bessa. I very much prefer using the Canon.
I think the Canon 7 is one of more under appreciated cameras out there, and is a much better camera than its price tag suggests.
The Canon 7 viewfinder and rangefinder isn't quite as good as the Bessa, but I think nearly everything else about the Canon 7 is better than the Bessa. I very much prefer using the Canon.
I think the Canon 7 is one of more under appreciated cameras out there, and is a much better camera than its price tag suggests.
traveler_101
American abroad
The thought has crossed my mind more than once. The Ultron is a very good lens, though I wonder whether it would block the finder on the M2. Almost did it a couple of years ago, now the prices have increased significantly.
My thought exactly. Value for the money and perhaps worth a try.
Opinion appears to be equally divided, however, on whether the "mushy" finder patch makes the 7 series significantly harder to focus than a Leica. There is a pretty close division of opinion also on whether to bother buying the Canon 7 or 7s.
This has passed through my head too. But what? Back to an SLR? Not sure the advantage there. How about learning to make daguerreotypes?
Dralowid
Michael
Dan Daniel
Well-known
If you are planning to shoot just 50mm, get a Canon P. Slightly smaller, smoother smoother design.
The Canon 7 is simply not as nice as a Leica M3. All around, but mainly the viewfinder. Then again, it is 1/6 or less the price of an M2 or 3? Once I get shooting with a 7 or P, I forget that it isn't an M3 and it works great.
One thing I read about and sort of ignored but in use is actually very very annoying- the strap lugs are too far to the front (both the 7 and the P). So the camera will naturally tilt back, driving the back edge of the top into your ribs, back, side, however you carry the camera. If you plan on having one around your body for long periods, be prepared.
The Canon 7 is simply not as nice as a Leica M3. All around, but mainly the viewfinder. Then again, it is 1/6 or less the price of an M2 or 3? Once I get shooting with a 7 or P, I forget that it isn't an M3 and it works great.
One thing I read about and sort of ignored but in use is actually very very annoying- the strap lugs are too far to the front (both the 7 and the P). So the camera will naturally tilt back, driving the back edge of the top into your ribs, back, side, however you carry the camera. If you plan on having one around your body for long periods, be prepared.
PRJ
Another Day in Paradise
The Canon 7 has a better meter than any affordable Leica, so there is that! Lol.
Seriously though, the Canon 7 is one of the best cameras ever made. I had one back about 15 years ago and always regretted selling it. I loved it. I casually looked for one for years, but recently I figured I might as well get one again since I am not getting any younger. One popped up with a Japanese Summilux at a stupid price and I snagged it. Happy I did so. The 7 is larger than a Leica, but it is a very comfortable camera to hold for whatever reason. The switchable framelines are nice and they only show one at a time. The viewfinder patch is fuzzy around the edges, but that isn't a big deal. I focus with the center of the patch anyway on my Leicas, so it works the same. I'd have to look, but I think the patch is larger than on the Leica. The meter is nice to have and works well at waist level. The only thing the 7 doesn't have is a hot shoe, but I never use flash so whoopdeedoo. For the price they sell for, they are a spectacular bargain. If you want to get a Canon 50mm, buy one with a 50 included. It will save you a few bucks.
Good luck!
Seriously though, the Canon 7 is one of the best cameras ever made. I had one back about 15 years ago and always regretted selling it. I loved it. I casually looked for one for years, but recently I figured I might as well get one again since I am not getting any younger. One popped up with a Japanese Summilux at a stupid price and I snagged it. Happy I did so. The 7 is larger than a Leica, but it is a very comfortable camera to hold for whatever reason. The switchable framelines are nice and they only show one at a time. The viewfinder patch is fuzzy around the edges, but that isn't a big deal. I focus with the center of the patch anyway on my Leicas, so it works the same. I'd have to look, but I think the patch is larger than on the Leica. The meter is nice to have and works well at waist level. The only thing the 7 doesn't have is a hot shoe, but I never use flash so whoopdeedoo. For the price they sell for, they are a spectacular bargain. If you want to get a Canon 50mm, buy one with a 50 included. It will save you a few bucks.
Good luck!
cassel
Well-known
I have the Canon 7, a Bessa R2, and a Leica II. I've at various times had the IIF, IIIF, M3 and M4-P as well...
they are all the BEST and all are my favorite....
Not very helpful, but seriously, the Canon 7 is cool! Big and heavy i suppose but I dig the holder "L" and a Black Rapid sling with that camera.
The Screwmount Leicas are seriously amazing, compact and solid (as you know) Somehow, the II is better than the IIf and the IIIf for me.
Never bonded with the M3 and the M4-P - probably like you said, the mega-expensive native lenses
The R2 is my latest and combines a lot that I like about rangefinders without feeling as flimsy as the R.
I'm partial to black cameras.....
they are all the BEST and all are my favorite....
Not very helpful, but seriously, the Canon 7 is cool! Big and heavy i suppose but I dig the holder "L" and a Black Rapid sling with that camera.
The Screwmount Leicas are seriously amazing, compact and solid (as you know) Somehow, the II is better than the IIf and the IIIf
for me.Never bonded with the M3 and the M4-P - probably like you said, the mega-expensive native lenses
The R2 is my latest and combines a lot that I like about rangefinders without feeling as flimsy as the R.
I'm partial to black cameras.....
Austintatious
Well-known
There is a nice P and two Canon lenses on Photrio for sale now. No affiliation with seller.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fs-canon-p-rangefinder-with-50mm-and-35mm-canon-lenses.169773/
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/fs-canon-p-rangefinder-with-50mm-and-35mm-canon-lenses.169773/