Curious, but what does bending the bellows do?

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panerai

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Seen camera images of bellows up or twisted and can't figure out how one would be able to take an image doing something like that if the site line is compromised.

Such as this

s-l1600.jpg


Thanks

DON
 
The sight line isn't compromised. One would limit the camera contortions to keep the path from lens to film clear (this still allows from some pretty startling camera movements).
 
Perspective and other controls

Perspective and other controls

Bending the bellows is necessary to change the relationship of the front frame to the rear frame. Shutter to film. This allows many controls of perspective and shapes. Line of sight is maintained by the camera user by viewing the ground glass screen for desired contol over the final image.

Steve Simmons "using the view camera" is one of many books and publications that seeks to explain the effects of changing angles and shift differences of front/rear planes and how the image is affected.

Again, the user seeks to create a new line of sight from shutter to film and control many aspects of the image.

https://www.amazon.com/Using-View-Camera-Creative-Photography/dp/1626540772
 
There's a full explanation at http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/camera movements.html . It begins:

Few things are more confusing at first than the 'movements' on large format (LF) cameras -- and yet few things are as simple or intuitive once you have mastered them. Matters are further confused by variations in terminology between English and American usage, and even between different photographers. Regardless of what you call them, movements provide ways of changing the shape of the subject in the final image, and of controlling the plane of focus.

The first picture shows a camera tied in knots, captioned,

More movements than anyone needs

The 121mm f/8 Schneider Super Angulon on this Linhof Technikardan is pretty much at right angles to the ground glass, so there would be no chance of an image even if the bellows were not in the way. It looks impressive, but it is completely irrelevant to real-world photography.

Cheers,

R.
 
Additionally, some idiots bend it way too much when they make a pic of the camera they wanna sale. Somehow some sellers think, it's a virtue and a plus selling point, if the camera looks like an anaconda.
 
Pherdinand said:
Additionally, some idiots bend it way too much when they make a pic of the camera they wanna sale. Somehow some sellers think, it's a virtue and a plus selling point, if the camera looks like an anaconda.
Click to expand...

I could see it maybe as a demonstration of range of movement. But otherwise, yeah... not great.
 
Pherdinand said:
Additionally, some idiots bend it way too much when they make a pic of the camera they wanna sale. Somehow some sellers think, it's a virtue and a plus selling point, if the camera looks like an anaconda.
Click to expand...

It's just like any other fashion pic showing an attractive model. They (human or camera) are often put into somewhat unrealistic poses in order to achieve the desired "look".
 
I would cut the sellers some slack. I think they are trying to demonstrate that the corners and creases of the bellows are in good shape, that there is no fraying of or corner holes in the materials. Let's face it, on a Sinar, or any camera so robust, the bellows are by far the most delicate part. Oh yeah, and they think the "anaconda" looks cool.

Personally, I have never used movements that extreme. But I have several cameras that would do the limbo like the one pictured above (if it ever came to that).
 
It may also be important to note that some of the least expensive bellows large format camera's have nearly as much a range of movements as very expensive LF camera's.

Most of Graflex's Press cameras from the last mid century had no movements on the back, but a fair amount of movements on the front standards. One could accomplish quite a bit of perspective control with those press cameras if desired. In fact my $500 Graflex Super Graphic (in excellent condition) has more movements on the front standards than normally anticipated, while the back has no movements.

For me, what you spend on a LF camera beyond basic camera with movements is largely spent on builder reputation, brand name, quality of fine craftsmanship and engineering on struts and rails and holders. Then price goes up considerably the larger the format of the film shot in the camera. Ultra Large format uses film beyond 11x14 inch sheets, to much higher... 20x24 and up.
 
As mentioned, it just shows that the seller (it's always an eBait seller that does this) is not a photographer. No photographer would do that to their camera, as it could stress the bellows, and bellows are expensive and sometimes a real PITA to replace. It's doubtful that any sort of photography would require such extreme bending either. No way you could get a full coverage shot with these crazy twisty camera bellows. Not sure where the comment about PS tools came from. We're talking about LF bellows manipulations.

Actually, the op's link is to a normal front rise shot, and it's not extreme at all. I was referring to some of the extreme bellows twisting that you sometimes see. That camera bellows is not stressed. Perfectly normal.

This is not in reference to photography, but light can actually bend around corners, and in fact always bends around them. Gravity also bends light, and we might pick up a simple prism sometime to see some pretty nifty light bending. Holding a stick in the water is a great way to watch light bend.
 
I could see using the high 'rise' with the front standard if you were shooting a tall building (but the front standard wouldn't be canted forward like that - it would be parallel to the rear standard). The only reason I could see doing that (as pictured) would be if you were keeping the rear standard straight up and down for some reason (to keep your verticals straight?), but wanted to have 'selective' focus by tilting the front standard forward.

But yeah, a bit weird as it looks in that photo. Nice camera though.
 
I have contorted cameras to similar degrees in studio settings. But that particular combination really does not make any sense, unless you wanted to photograph a tabletop setting from below.
 
Steve M. said:
.... No photographer would do that to their camera, as it could stress the bellows, and bellows are expensive and sometimes a real PITA to replace. It's doubtful that any sort of photography would require such extreme bending either. No way you could get a full coverage shot with these crazy twisty camera bellows. Not sure where the comment about PS tools came from. We're talking about LF bellows manipulations.
.......
Click to expand...

For those worried about "stressing" their bellows they did make bags that replace bellows that provide some form but are more flexible.

I've seen my father do stuff close to that with the front and back to move the zone of focus when shooting industrial product stuff.

I think the seller is showing the flexibility of that design of LF camera rather than teaching a course in photography.

Just a few thoughts.

B2 (;->
 
Steve M. said:
As mentioned, it just shows that the seller (it's always an eBait seller that does this) is not a photographer. No photographer would do that to their camera, . . .
Click to expand...
Dear Steve,

Well, I guess I must not be a photographer then.

Or maybe, because it's it's been part of how I earn a living for decades, it's you who doesn't know much about camera bellows.

Yes, you might harm the bellows if your camera is a piece of clapped out junk with crumbling bellows, but if it's in reasonable condition, it will do no harm whatsoever.

See the above link, http://www.rogerandfrances.com/subscription/camera movements.html

Cheers,

R.
 
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