Dating a Nikon SP Back

[furcafe]

I recently acquired a titanium shutter SP (serial #6223***) which I strongly suspect has a back from a Nikon F, but don't know for sure. The bottom is marked "Made In Japan" & the film reminder dial goes to ASA 1600 & has the dual red & black arrows as shown in the photo @ the bottom of this page:

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/classics/michaeliu/cameras/nikonf/fbody/map.htm

It's not a big deal, as this is a user camera, but I'm curious. The ASA 1600 seems to be a dead giveaway, but other evidence points to a replacement back, too, like the fact that it's in noticeably nicer condition than the rest of the camera.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The back of a Nikon F will not fit an SP.

You have a very late SP. The cosmetics changed. My 622xxx goes to ASA 400, has the bright red and white lettering on the reminder dial. It would be easy to swap the dial with that from an F. The clear-plastic cover was missing off of the shutter-speed dial on mine: I replaced it with one from an F.

 

[furcafe]

Thanks, Brian.

For some reason, I thought the backs were interchangeable; probably because the 2 systems have so much in common.

I suppose the back could be in better condition than the rest of the body because of an everready case, or it's from another SP or an S3.

The back of a Nikon F will not fit an SP.

You have a very late SP. The cosmetics changed. My 622xxx goes to ASA 400, has the bright red and white lettering on the reminder dial. It would be easy to swap the dial with that from an F. The clear-plastic cover was missing off of the shutter-speed dial on mine: I replaced it with one from an F.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I size of the Nikon RF's are almost identical to the Nikon FM/FE series. The F is extended for the Mirror Box. Many parts are interchangeable, including the shutter curtains. The SP/S3/S4 backs are all interchangeable. I've read that the S2 back will go onto the SP, but the SP will not go onto the S2. I'm too chicken to run the risk of jamming it and finding out why.

 

[furcafe]

This may be a basic question for the NHS members out there, but is there an online reference for Nikon RF serial # blocks that helps owners ascertain when their cameras were made? Or is this covered in Rotoloni's new book (I have the old version). Are there other books that folks recommend?

 

[Trius]

If I met a Nikon SP back, I would date her no matter her provenance.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

I looked at my late model SP's- 6219xxx has the two arrows, ASA to 400. 62222xx has one arrow. Also goes to 400. The latter was made for the European market, is marked in meters.

The NHS article shows ASA 1600 dials coming in with the 69x block of the F, which was sometime in 1968. My Photomic Tn goes to 1600, and is a 691x camera. My earlier F's have dials that go to 400.

Nikon tended to use parts out-of-order as one batch ran into another. These cameras are all almost 50 years old, and some "upgrades" and parts-swaps have taken place. I've seen SP's with Nikon F Apollo advance levers on them. I'm thinking someone put the later 1600 ASA dial from a later Nikon F on the SP. The two arrows were there to begin with, just the dial only went to 400.

 

[furcafe]

That makes sense. FWIW, this particular SP's distance scale is marked in meters, too.

I looked at my late model SP's- 6219xxx has the two arrows, ASA to 400. 62222xx has one arrow. Also goes to 400. The latter was made for the European market, is marked in meters.

The NHS article shows ASA 1600 dials coming in with the 69x block of the F, which was sometime in 1968. My Photomic Tn goes to 1600, and is a 691x camera. My earlier F's have dials that go to 400.

Nikon tended to use parts out-of-order as one batch ran into another. These cameras are all almost 50 years old, and some "upgrades" and parts-swaps have taken place. I've seen SP's with Nikon F Apollo advance levers on them. I'm thinking someone put the later 1600 ASA dial from a later Nikon F on the SP. The two arrows were there to begin with, just the dial only went to 400.

 

[jonmanjiro]

I vaguely remember reading somewhere that the later SPs got the dual red & black arrows so you could remind yourself of whether you had colour or B&W film in the camera - black arrow for B&W and red arrow for colour.

FWIW the SP 2005 only has one arrow (white on black background) and an ISO dial that only goes to 400. From memory the S3 2000 and S3 2002 only go to ISO 400 as well.

 

[NIKON KIU]

I recently acquired a titanium shutter SP (serial #6223***) which I strongly suspect has a back from a Nikon F, but don't know for sure. The bottom is marked "Made In Japan" & the film reminder dial goes to ASA 1600 & has the dual red & black arrows as shown in the photo @ the bottom of this page:

Can we see a picture of your SP's bottom?

The 1600 ASA marking is real odd. May be a replacement? Are all the numbers in white or are half in white and half in red?

There is a way to determine if the back from a Nikon SP is correct, it all has to do with the number of patents engraved inside.

How many lines of patents engraving are there on yours?

Kiu

 

[VinceC]

To be specific, the body of an F (not counting the mirror box) is about 3mm deeper and 20mm wider and (pentaprism removed) the same height.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Kiu- toward the end of the SP run, I'm thinking Nikon used up a lot of their spare parts inventory. Some "out-of-order" appearance of cosmetic features is not uncommon.

 

[NIKON KIU]

Kiu- toward the end of the SP run, I'm thinking Nikon used up a lot of their spare parts inventory. Some "out-of-order" appearance of cosmetic features is not uncommon.

The last run of SP's were manufactured around 1963, I believe these are the cameras with the 623xxxx prefix, by then it's obvious that lots of parts were shared from the Nikon F. But, that still doesn't explain the ASA 1600 marking.

It's also worth mentioning that lots of replacement top panels for the SP are from that same 623xxxx batch of numbers!

Kiu

 

[Sonnar Brian]

The 1600 dial is probably a replacement, but other features like to 1 and 2 arrow on the Back seem to be intermixed toward the end.

I'm fairly sure that 623xxxx SP's were released, most of the ones on Ebay that I've seen are titanium curtains with the "electric green" color shutter speed dials. They also has the longer advance lever. I'm thinking toward the end, Nikon dipped into the replacement batch of parts. The 62"3" starts up where the 62"2" batch leaves off for the last 4 digits. Just like Nikon did in the 8.5cm f2 lens, jumped a high-order digit. Usually you do this when a Revision is made in a camera. But Nikon was inconsistent in this.

 

[furcafe]

I don't have a decent point & shoot or dSLR to take a good shot of the bottom, but as far as markings, the bottom looks exactly like the photo of the late F @ the bottom of the page cited above. Here it is again:

All ASA markings are in white, starting w/25 & ending w/1600 + "E."

As far as patent markings on the inside, I 1st have to finish the roll of Tri-X that I have in the camera, but I'll let you guys know once I have a chance to take a look.

Can we see a picture of your SP's bottom?

The 1600 ASA marking is real odd. May be a replacement? Are all the numbers in white or are half in white and half in red?

There is a way to determine if the back from a Nikon SP is correct, it all has to do with the number of patents engraved inside.

How many lines of patents engraving are there on yours?

Kiu

 

[furcafe]

For the record, the serial # on mine is 6223*** (not 623****). The shutter speed dial is the same, but faded, shade of yellowish green as my S3 2000. The advance lever is the same size & shape as that on the S3 2000, but hollow underneath, not solid.

I do have a cloth shutter SP for comparison purposes, but it's a totally beat-up mishmash of parts (e.g., shutter speed dial from an F).

I'm fairly sure that 623xxxx SP's were released, most of the ones on Ebay that I've seen are titanium curtains with the "electric green" color shutter speed dials. They also has the longer advance lever. I'm thinking toward the end, Nikon dipped into the replacement batch of parts. The 62"3" starts up where the 62"2" batch leaves off for the last 4 digits. Just like Nikon did in the 8.5cm f2 lens, jumped a high-order digit. Usually you do this when a Revision is made in a camera. But Nikon was inconsistent in this.

 

[furcafe]

OK, checked the inside of the back. There are no patent #s engraved therein. Nada.

There is a way to determine if the back from a Nikon SP is correct, it all has to do with the number of patents engraved inside.

How many lines of patents engraving are there on yours?

Kiu