marcr1230
Well-known
I tend to follow the instructions for the film and developers I use.
Most have 5 inversions every 30 secs.
I've seen some people agitate for the first 30 secs and then 5 secs or inversions every 30 secs.
What do you do and why?
Most have 5 inversions every 30 secs.
I've seen some people agitate for the first 30 secs and then 5 secs or inversions every 30 secs.
What do you do and why?
Roger Hicks
Veteran
The differences are far smaller than most people would have you believe.
The initial 30 sec agitation is to ensure rapid take-up of fresh dev and no air bubbles. That's what I do. It's sort of 'fail safe'. Any other (consistent) agitation regime is fine as long as you're happy with the results. DO NO treat development guidelines as set in stone. If you get better results with higher or lower EIs, or more or less agitation, BREAK THE 'RULES'.
Cheers,
R.
The initial 30 sec agitation is to ensure rapid take-up of fresh dev and no air bubbles. That's what I do. It's sort of 'fail safe'. Any other (consistent) agitation regime is fine as long as you're happy with the results. DO NO treat development guidelines as set in stone. If you get better results with higher or lower EIs, or more or less agitation, BREAK THE 'RULES'.
Cheers,
R.
Mackinaw
Think Different
Agree with Roger. I do the mandatory 30 second initial agitation, then do 5 seconds every two minutes. Have done so for years.
Jim B.
Jim B.
Vics
Veteran
I do 15 seconds at the start, then two slow inversions every 30 sec. D76 1:1. I think consistency is more important than method. Agitation is one controller of contrast, so if your contrast looks good to you, don't change anything. If contrast is too low, increase agitation just a bit. Keep tweaking til you get negs you can print at normal contrast (number 2) all the time. Then just shoot to that method and have fun!
Vic
Vic
Michael Markey
Veteran
I do the initial 30 second agitation and then five inversions every 30 seconds. I think I`ll try a little experimentation in future though.
I live in the north west of England (the Fylde) and the water is soft.
Michael
I live in the north west of England (the Fylde) and the water is soft.
Michael
Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
To warm this topic up again, I've got some questions.
When developing Tri-X in D76 1+1 (20°C for 9 3/4 minutes according to massive dev chart) I move it the first 30 seconds and then do 6 movemens of the tank every 30 seconds (this somehow is also given in the tech docu by Kodak for this film).
But, when I do this, I sometimes get traces of the sprocket holes of the film visible in the frame. Do I agitate too much? Got a hint that 1 time every 30 seconds is enough. Here's a photo to illustrate:
Note that I've put up the blacks to a very good amount in LR2, so this is not the untouched photo as scanned.
Also, what to do against water stains? I usually water the films like this: put in 8 times water and pour it out again, last two out of 10 times is distilled water, no agitation here, so while fixing before.
When developing Tri-X in D76 1+1 (20°C for 9 3/4 minutes according to massive dev chart) I move it the first 30 seconds and then do 6 movemens of the tank every 30 seconds (this somehow is also given in the tech docu by Kodak for this film).
But, when I do this, I sometimes get traces of the sprocket holes of the film visible in the frame. Do I agitate too much? Got a hint that 1 time every 30 seconds is enough. Here's a photo to illustrate:
Note that I've put up the blacks to a very good amount in LR2, so this is not the untouched photo as scanned.
Also, what to do against water stains? I usually water the films like this: put in 8 times water and pour it out again, last two out of 10 times is distilled water, no agitation here, so while fixing before.
newspaperguy
Well-known
With HC110, small tank, Tri-X: Water flush -Vigorous agitation,
followed by a sharp rap against the counter to dislodge air bubbles.
Repeat with HC110.
Then one inversion every 30 seconds.
My standard for 20+ years.
followed by a sharp rap against the counter to dislodge air bubbles.
Repeat with HC110.
Then one inversion every 30 seconds.
My standard for 20+ years.
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Mcary
Well-known
Lately I've been using HC 110 B or H depending on the film and temp of developer at time of processing
For shorter development time of say 6-7 minutes I generally do 30 seconds of initial agitations followed by 2 slow agitations every 30 seconds. For longer development times of say 10-12+ mins I generally do 60 seconds of initial agitation followed by 3 slow agitations every 60 seconds.
Seem to give nice even results though contrast is a bit low. Which I feel works for what I'm shooting plus the fact that I can add contrast in post processing.
For shorter development time of say 6-7 minutes I generally do 30 seconds of initial agitations followed by 2 slow agitations every 30 seconds. For longer development times of say 10-12+ mins I generally do 60 seconds of initial agitation followed by 3 slow agitations every 60 seconds.
Seem to give nice even results though contrast is a bit low. Which I feel works for what I'm shooting plus the fact that I can add contrast in post processing.
kossi008
Photon Counter
Are you saying that you do NOT agitate while fixing? Maybe that's your problem, although I can't really say I know.
The water stains are really a pest. I squeegee in addition to the distilled water rinse. You have to be careful not to scratch the emulsion, though...
johnnygulliver
Established
To warm this topic up again, I've got some questions.
When developing Tri-X in D76 1+1 (20°C for 9 3/4 minutes according to massive dev chart) I move it the first 30 seconds and then do 6 movemens of the tank every 30 seconds (this somehow is also given in the tech docu by Kodak for this film).
But, when I do this, I sometimes get traces of the sprocket holes of the film visible in the frame. Do I agitate too much? Got a hint that 1 time every 30 seconds is enough. Here's a photo to illustrate:
Note that I've put up the blacks to a very good amount in LR2, so this is not the untouched photo as scanned.
Also, what to do against water stains? I usually water the films like this: put in 8 times water and pour it out again, last two out of 10 times is distilled water, no agitation here, so while fixing before.
Agitation is too strong a word really, gentle inversions more like - you don't want to create bubbles, and always be consistent. I always 'agitate' the fix, to keep it active in the boundary layers. Hard water won't help, do you use a wetting agent or filter the water? I rap the tank too, to dislodge bubbles - not necessary really, just Ju-Ju. Some people use a hardener to try to prevent scratches, but this can be avoided by going easy on the squeege. My 2d fwiw.
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Florian1234
it's just hide and seek
Right, I don't agitate while fixing. So I should do that in future.
tj01
Well-known
Yes. Always.
Leigh Youdale
Well-known
I have a 'standard' taken from Ilford recommendations and tap the tank a couple of times on filling, agitate with the "swizzle stick" in my Paterson tank for 30 seconds, check the temperature in the tank and cap it before the first 60 seconds expire. Thereafter I do four inversions in 10 seconds, every minute. During the last minute I remove the cap, rinse it, check the temperature again and adjust the time if I need to. I like contrasty negatives and so may extend the development time a little beyond recommended times but I try to avoid excessive agitation as it builds grain.
I also tend to err on the side of lower temperatures by no more than one or two degrees - again as a grain reduction strategy. Then I increase times by a factor of 1.13 per degree difference. Somewhere between 18C and 20C is fine - much over 20C and grain seems to become more noticeable.
However, for some rapid-acting developers I follow those recommendations. For example, Rodinal Special (Studional) has time of around three and a half minutes. Because of this the recommendation is to agitate with two inversions every 30 seconds. If I only did it every minute there would not be enough agitation.
So it's not a totally fixed thing, but it's important, I feel, to have a standard method but vary it when necessary.
I don't use a stop bath these days. I fill and empty the tank five times with tap water, then add the fixer and - note - I agitate the fixer for the first 30 seconds, then cap the tank and follow exactly the same inversion sequence with the fixer that I did with the developer. Fix for five minutes and do four inversions every minute. Except I don't bother checking the temperature, of course.
Empty the fixer out, fill and empty the tank five times with tap water and then I use a hose washer attachment that fits to the tap and to the tank. Wash for ten minutes.
Empty the tank, fill with Photoflo or some other wetting agent, empty it out, and then open the tank and remove the film from the spool carefully.
Once it's hung up I hold the lower clip to provide a little tension on the film and I very gently wipe each side of the film from top to bottom with a well dampened (but not soaking wet) cellulose sponge. That removes most of the water droplets and leaves the film surface wet but without lots of drops. Then I just let it dry - usually overnight. Using a squeegee or even finger pressure to remove water droplets seems a bit risky but the gentle touch of the sponge seems to do the trick for me and I don't get scratches or the water marks.
I also tend to err on the side of lower temperatures by no more than one or two degrees - again as a grain reduction strategy. Then I increase times by a factor of 1.13 per degree difference. Somewhere between 18C and 20C is fine - much over 20C and grain seems to become more noticeable.
However, for some rapid-acting developers I follow those recommendations. For example, Rodinal Special (Studional) has time of around three and a half minutes. Because of this the recommendation is to agitate with two inversions every 30 seconds. If I only did it every minute there would not be enough agitation.
So it's not a totally fixed thing, but it's important, I feel, to have a standard method but vary it when necessary.
I don't use a stop bath these days. I fill and empty the tank five times with tap water, then add the fixer and - note - I agitate the fixer for the first 30 seconds, then cap the tank and follow exactly the same inversion sequence with the fixer that I did with the developer. Fix for five minutes and do four inversions every minute. Except I don't bother checking the temperature, of course.
Empty the fixer out, fill and empty the tank five times with tap water and then I use a hose washer attachment that fits to the tap and to the tank. Wash for ten minutes.
Empty the tank, fill with Photoflo or some other wetting agent, empty it out, and then open the tank and remove the film from the spool carefully.
Once it's hung up I hold the lower clip to provide a little tension on the film and I very gently wipe each side of the film from top to bottom with a well dampened (but not soaking wet) cellulose sponge. That removes most of the water droplets and leaves the film surface wet but without lots of drops. Then I just let it dry - usually overnight. Using a squeegee or even finger pressure to remove water droplets seems a bit risky but the gentle touch of the sponge seems to do the trick for me and I don't get scratches or the water marks.
Ljós
Well-known
Hi Florian,
first, I agree with the others, yes, it is absolutely mandatory to agitate during fixing. The fact sheets of Kodak, Ilford etc. all agree on this.
Now, water stains... I find that I get water stains even with distilled water in the last stage(s), too, so I use a wetting agent. You have to experiment, usually the best results are achieved with a higher dilution than stated by the manufacturer. I used Ilford Ilfotol for a while, but now I saw that Kodak Photo-Flo can be easily ordered from macodirekt (I see that you are in Germany, too), and will try this.
Btw, are you sure you are getting sprocket/surge marks? It is a bit hard to tell from your picture, but I can only clearly identify the water stain.
Oh, one more tip: I followed Roger Hick's splendid advice and got myself a Paterson waterfilter for the tap water. Filter all water that touches the film, and with my water supply it helps to get cleaner negatives. Still, for the final rinse I use distilled water.
The waterfilter is a one-time investment, no followup costs.
All the best, Ljós