UPHOTO
Member
I know there is a version of this poll in the "issues" forum but I think there could be a better poll of people in here. People are in the known issues forum because of issues and maybe the numbers were thrown off from that.
So did you have to get your M8 fixed under warranty?
So did you have to get your M8 fixed under warranty?
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Genuine interest: what is the rationale behind this poll
You are going to get a certain number of people in each category; and? Does it have anything to do with reality? Let's assume you get a majority in the more than once category. The only thing you will have shown that unhappy customers have responded most to your poll - but you will never know if 1 % or 99% overall of those customers have responded. You won't even know if anybody is telling the truth.This is a poll for poll's sake imo. And it will end in a bun fight over the turnaround time and quality of Leica customer service and reliability or lack thereof of the M8.
You are going to get a certain number of people in each category; and? Does it have anything to do with reality? Let's assume you get a majority in the more than once category. The only thing you will have shown that unhappy customers have responded most to your poll - but you will never know if 1 % or 99% overall of those customers have responded. You won't even know if anybody is telling the truth.This is a poll for poll's sake imo. And it will end in a bun fight over the turnaround time and quality of Leica customer service and reliability or lack thereof of the M8.
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JPSuisse
Well-known
Sorry, all you M8-doomsayers...
My M8 hasn't been upgraded and has never needed service.
JP
My M8 hasn't been upgraded and has never needed service.
JP
Mine needs to be repaired and it is out of warranty. Fuc...
usayit
Well-known
Mine was repaired for the dreaded vertical line issue under warranty.
I have to say that Leica NJ did a good service though.... (I work nearby). Turn around was a bit longer than my experience with Canon service but they turned around the M8 a full week shorter than they estimated.
I have to say that Leica NJ did a good service though.... (I work nearby). Turn around was a bit longer than my experience with Canon service but they turned around the M8 a full week shorter than they estimated.
squirrel$$$bandit
Veteran
No doomsayers here. Nobody is invested in the notion of the M8 being defective. There are just people who have had broken cameras and people who haven't.
Mine came back from Leica NJ yesterday in flawless working order.
UPHOTO
Member
Genuine interest: what is the rationale behind this poll
You could say that about EVERY poll, vote, census and on and on and on.
I've never known Leica owners to not state their opinion on Leica. I'm pretty sure we won't get a large response but it's interesting to see what comes out of this.
I think this is more fair since the other poll was in the known issues forum and had about 50% of the results showing people had issues. I think that was high because of where it was in the forum.
psmith
Newbie
Poll About Problems with Leica M8 or anything
Poll About Problems with Leica M8 or anything
I really thing Jaap is the voice of reason here. A poll is as valid as is the number of respondants, how the poll is worded, etc. I recently bought a lens on eBay and the seller had 98.9% good feedback from 5,500 respondants. As you know you have to leave feedback or it will put a negative mark on you as a buyer. I looked back to any negative notices and the few that existed just spewed brimstone at his person and never stated the problem. One buyer was very upset because seller wouldn't give him back $50 so he could have the rangefinder checked for proper alignment. What dealer would do that? A stupid one. Even negative comments can be motivated by the goofy gene in humans. I bought the lens and it was just as described, actually even better. Over five thousand pleased buyers is outstanding, if you trust the rating system on eBay, which I do since eBay would not allow sellers to monkey with the ratings. Think what that would do to eBay's rep. Phil
Poll About Problems with Leica M8 or anything
I really thing Jaap is the voice of reason here. A poll is as valid as is the number of respondants, how the poll is worded, etc. I recently bought a lens on eBay and the seller had 98.9% good feedback from 5,500 respondants. As you know you have to leave feedback or it will put a negative mark on you as a buyer. I looked back to any negative notices and the few that existed just spewed brimstone at his person and never stated the problem. One buyer was very upset because seller wouldn't give him back $50 so he could have the rangefinder checked for proper alignment. What dealer would do that? A stupid one. Even negative comments can be motivated by the goofy gene in humans. I bought the lens and it was just as described, actually even better. Over five thousand pleased buyers is outstanding, if you trust the rating system on eBay, which I do since eBay would not allow sellers to monkey with the ratings. Think what that would do to eBay's rep. Phil
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
You can certainly say this about ANY poll on an Internet forum. Can you tell me whether the unhappy voters are more vocal? Whether shills from the competition " vote"? Whether it is skewed because of a vocal minority of blind enthusiasts? Is the population of a forum representative of the customer group in the real world? Yet sweeping conclusions are based on these polls. " The M8 was a flawed camera!" Well, in reality it sold about 40.000 in less than three years, making it the bestselling Leica camera for the last 15 years on a per year basis and it saved the company. Remember the hullabuloo about breaking baseplate attachements? It condemned the whole camera in the view of ssome on the Net. Six cases in all, in a series of cameras coming from one week's production. Weatherproofing? One-and-a-half dead camera out of 40.000, opposed to a number of dunked survivors. Yet readers of forums are afraid to take their M8/9 out into even a slight shower... And there are many more examples.
monochromeimages
Established
I'm most interested in the result of this poll. I'm considering looking for a good used M8 but I am put off by all the reports of reliability issues. Just what are the chances of an M8 giving enough years of trouble free service to justify the cost ? If all I have read is true the chances are not good. Probably better to stick with my trusty film leicas which I have every confidence wiil go on and on and on.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
Two M8s the only thing was the recall in Dec. 2006 on the first of the two. Flawless performance on both bodies. Over 15.000 exposures each in more than three years. 6000 now on the M9 since early September, only the rangefinder went off through vibration. Fixed under guarantee, turnaround four working days.
ruslan
Established
Yes, my M8 was defective with line on the sensor, replaced with new CCD by warranty.
retow
Well-known
JAAPV would not opose a poll in which the three options were: are you 1) happy with your M8, or 2) very happy, or 3) very very happy.
retow, I think that's neither true nor helpful...
One of my two M8 had the vertical line problem, which was handled well and swiftly through my dealer PopFlash, fixed under warranty. This was perhaps a bad batch of sensors from Kodak at some point, and I don't think ill of either company for a hiccup in this new technology.
One of my two M8 had the vertical line problem, which was handled well and swiftly through my dealer PopFlash, fixed under warranty. This was perhaps a bad batch of sensors from Kodak at some point, and I don't think ill of either company for a hiccup in this new technology.
alecgold
Established
What I was wondering is this: how much did the updates of the firmware do to solve the reliability?
How often does the M8 still freeze, make half pictures, do odd stuff that is clearly software related?
All the reviews I'm reading are early 2007 reviews that mention problems like missing shots because the battery needed to be taken out.
The idea that I have gotten is that today the camera was much more reliable (software wise) and that the latest firmware update hasn't got much problems any more, not withstanding the IR sensitivity (which to me is a plus for BW) and the hard green lines that I get at extreme over exposure with a single bright light at the side of the frame.
How often does the M8 still freeze, make half pictures, do odd stuff that is clearly software related?
All the reviews I'm reading are early 2007 reviews that mention problems like missing shots because the battery needed to be taken out.
The idea that I have gotten is that today the camera was much more reliable (software wise) and that the latest firmware update hasn't got much problems any more, not withstanding the IR sensitivity (which to me is a plus for BW) and the hard green lines that I get at extreme over exposure with a single bright light at the side of the frame.
UPHOTO
Member
Great question alecgold.
I was wondering the same thing. I'm hoping that the firmware has helped.
Really close to pulling the trigger on one instead of the Epson.
I was wondering the same thing. I'm hoping that the firmware has helped.
Really close to pulling the trigger on one instead of the Epson.
jaapv
RFF Sponsoring Member.
I think I would - it would show the same type of bias.:bang:
robklurfield
eclipse
I'm very happy with my M8. must be 5000-8000 or more actuations already (I'm too lazy with the menu to bother checking... and, really, who cares) and no problems. Well, one small problem, so small in fact that I haven't yet bothered to do anything about it: a small speck of something (looks like a piece of paper) in the viewfinder window for the past six months. Doesn't actually bother me enough to drive 35 miles to Leica NJ, though I will go up there before the warranty expires. They're very nice and very helpful. When they replcaed my former Digilux 2's sensor out of warranty at NO CHARGE they did have the camera longer than I might have liked, but how can I complain when they did all the work gratis. I'm hoping they don't need to keep my camera for very long or (heaven forbid) need to send it to Solms. This is a great camera. Leica is great company (yeah, I wish their prices were lower, but you get what you pay for). Here's a picture of my big, big problem with a little scrap of paper. Look at the lower right-hand corner of the VF window; you'll see a small white dot. Big deal, right. I'm happy. No offense intended to anyone here, including the OP, but sometime I think these polls are silly. If I could afford another M8 or an M9 or two, I'd own them. The only reason I haven't had this fixed, is that I'd hate to be without the camera even overnight as hardly a day goes by that I'm not using it. Meanwhile, I've probably shot 10 rolls of film on my M2 in the past six or seven weeks.
UPHOTO
Member
Rob, you are right these are kind of silly at times BUT after reading thru a few forums and seeing just how many people have issues with their M8's, I got a little scared.
I've owned a couple 5D's for years now and have followed many Canon forums and you never read of as many issues as you do with the M8.
I really really really want to own an M8 but I've never been so unsure or afraid of a purchase before. I thought I wanted an R-D1 but then you have the worry of what happens when it breaks?
We should have more options when it comes to Digital Rangefinders.
I've owned a couple 5D's for years now and have followed many Canon forums and you never read of as many issues as you do with the M8.
I really really really want to own an M8 but I've never been so unsure or afraid of a purchase before. I thought I wanted an R-D1 but then you have the worry of what happens when it breaks?
We should have more options when it comes to Digital Rangefinders.
It's pretty common to get a skewed idea of problems by reading forums, where a reasonable person would conclude the product is full of glitches, and thus be wary of purchases. Well, it's useful in learning what to look out for, what to ask about, but it promotes paranoia too.
It never is anywhere near as bad as it sounds....But in honesty I was not aware of my vertical line problem until I started pixel-peeping after reading about it online!
Edit: But of course the vertical line was in all my previous pics... Not a real disaster though, as for the "keepers" I simply edited it out. At 100% view in the processed TIFFs I selected the whole image, then changed the selection to include only the left side of the pic, stopping just at the line. Then hit the right-arrow key to move that selection one pixel to the right eliminating the line. After than, can't even see where the line was...
Alec, it's hard to say... the technicians would have a much better feel for the changes.
My first M8 was a demo purchased Jan 08. My initial reaction to your question was to say the firmware didn't solve any problems, because my M8 has been equally reliable now as at the start. But, true, early on I did experience one "freeze" solved by removing the battery for a minute or so. Never half-pictures or any such odd stuff. Except the vertical line sensor problem fixed under warranty. The second M8 purchased used in Mar 08 has been consistently trouble-free...
Y'know, with electronic gear problems are most likely to show up right away or not at all. I'd think the M8 would share that characteristic, at least for the electronics parts. So, barring the defective M8 that has sat on a shelf for a couple years, those with problems have probably had them fixed by now.
Edit: I should mention that firmware updates did materially improve White Balance.
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