NickTrop
Veteran
I work in a small college of about 300 students, and was an instructor before moving into administration. Weather conditions were bad today and a math prof. couldn't make it in, so I covered his class. Only 5 out of 15 students showed up due to the weather, so during break I sprung for lunch and bought them pizza as a reward for braving the elements.
I had my trusty Yashica Electro GSN in my office drawer. I've designated this my "school" camera, and often use it at school events, and my office is wallpapered with 6X4's I've taken with the GSN.
While the students were eating I took some candids. One of my female students recognized the camera... She had taken a photography class a couple years ago, and talked about how much she enjoyed making prints the old school way. I asked her if she had a digital, and she had one. However, she said she just uses it for snaps but thought it no where near making a black and white print in a darkroom - "that's magic". I let her take a couple pictures. She was familialr with rangefinders but never used one. In her class they used the Pentax K1000 she thought. She asked how much the camera costs, and when I said I paid $30 for mine her eyes lit up.
Another student walked over. He saw me taking a picture and asked if I was using a Leica. I was surprised he know "Leica" and laughed and said no. He said he had a Canon Digital Rebel. I asked how he liked it, and he literally made a face and said he liked it when he first got it but now he hates it. Both he and the female were agreeing how they didn't like all the buttons and menus and how you blind people because the flash always pops up.
I explained to the class why I like these older cameras, and the passed it around the room, some taking a few shots after explaining to them how to focus and set exposure.
That's it? Yep - simple. No flash? Nope, not needed with an f1.7 lens. My camera would be popping the flash out - absolutely. Wow - it's quiet too. They were taken with how well-constructed the "little" Yash was - with real metal parts. How old's this camera? They were amazed it was 30 years old and looks like new. One guy said his digitals always seem to die and never make it past a couple years.
No, not a scientific sample, but two of the five students in the class expressedly didn't like digital. I wonder if there's not a digital backlash brewing? I went back to using film because I missed bokeh, the simple elegance of a manual (semi-manual in the case of the GSN), and didn't like to rudely blind people with a flash. I also like the convenience of dropping off a roll of film and the art of making a black and white print.
Maybe the next horizon for camera manufacturers won't be how many megapixels they can cram into a sensor, but the elegance and simplicity of three simple controls - aperture, shutter speed, manual focus, and the beauty and convenience of traditional film.
I had my trusty Yashica Electro GSN in my office drawer. I've designated this my "school" camera, and often use it at school events, and my office is wallpapered with 6X4's I've taken with the GSN.
While the students were eating I took some candids. One of my female students recognized the camera... She had taken a photography class a couple years ago, and talked about how much she enjoyed making prints the old school way. I asked her if she had a digital, and she had one. However, she said she just uses it for snaps but thought it no where near making a black and white print in a darkroom - "that's magic". I let her take a couple pictures. She was familialr with rangefinders but never used one. In her class they used the Pentax K1000 she thought. She asked how much the camera costs, and when I said I paid $30 for mine her eyes lit up.
Another student walked over. He saw me taking a picture and asked if I was using a Leica. I was surprised he know "Leica" and laughed and said no. He said he had a Canon Digital Rebel. I asked how he liked it, and he literally made a face and said he liked it when he first got it but now he hates it. Both he and the female were agreeing how they didn't like all the buttons and menus and how you blind people because the flash always pops up.
I explained to the class why I like these older cameras, and the passed it around the room, some taking a few shots after explaining to them how to focus and set exposure.
That's it? Yep - simple. No flash? Nope, not needed with an f1.7 lens. My camera would be popping the flash out - absolutely. Wow - it's quiet too. They were taken with how well-constructed the "little" Yash was - with real metal parts. How old's this camera? They were amazed it was 30 years old and looks like new. One guy said his digitals always seem to die and never make it past a couple years.
No, not a scientific sample, but two of the five students in the class expressedly didn't like digital. I wonder if there's not a digital backlash brewing? I went back to using film because I missed bokeh, the simple elegance of a manual (semi-manual in the case of the GSN), and didn't like to rudely blind people with a flash. I also like the convenience of dropping off a roll of film and the art of making a black and white print.
Maybe the next horizon for camera manufacturers won't be how many megapixels they can cram into a sensor, but the elegance and simplicity of three simple controls - aperture, shutter speed, manual focus, and the beauty and convenience of traditional film.
Davor
Established
Good story! Hopefully you helped a couple of youngsters into the world of rangefinder photography. =)
SteveM(PA)
Poser
Somewhat unrelated, but in a "classroom" context, there's an episode of "Strangers with Candy" from Comedy Central, in which the main character Jerri Blank (played by Amy Sedaris) is taking a high school photography class, and using a GSN. Although, umm, she's insane 
rogue_designer
Reciprocity Failure
I keep waiting for nikon to make a digital FM2. I don't want the rest of the crap they cram into those beasties.
I'll keep my rangefinders analog tho.
Nice anecdote. I wish I could say the classrooms I've recently been in were as receptive. There were lots of "cool" and "neato" comments about the Canon P that was passed around, but nobody who thought the darkroom process was worth their time - if they can't get it instantly, they don't want it. *shakes head sadly*
I'll keep my rangefinders analog tho.
Nice anecdote. I wish I could say the classrooms I've recently been in were as receptive. There were lots of "cool" and "neato" comments about the Canon P that was passed around, but nobody who thought the darkroom process was worth their time - if they can't get it instantly, they don't want it. *shakes head sadly*
Trius
Waiting on Maitani
Well that is the trick isn't it? It should be be relatively easy to do the first two controls, a la Epson R-D1. Last one is a little trickier.NickTrop said:
The trickiest part is convincing a manufacturer or consortium of the business case. The digital "features" siren song is loud.
Waiting on Maitani.
anandi
Gotta catch the light.
Nikon FM3d
Nikon FM3d
Me too, an FM3D would be a perfect camera, In theory it would be inexpensive (except for a lack of economies of scale). Rugged, power efficient, cool. I remember reading somewhere on the 'net that Nikon had actually created a prototype of one for evaluation.
-Amit
Nikon FM3d
rogue_designer said:
Me too, an FM3D would be a perfect camera, In theory it would be inexpensive (except for a lack of economies of scale). Rugged, power efficient, cool. I remember reading somewhere on the 'net that Nikon had actually created a prototype of one for evaluation.
-Amit
NickTrop
Veteran
Davor - I taught classes in many subjects including technical writing and in those classes there's always a lecture on "writing instructions". For that lecture, I used to pass around a rangefinder, let the "kids" run around and take pics...
... then brought out the box with the changing bag, Jobo tank, developer, fixer... etc. I would develop the film. The students had to watch what I did and write clear instructions on developing black and white - a very "instruction-y" process. They're always excited when they see the negs "come out". A few classes later I would bring in the contact print, a loupe, and a few prints I made.
Students were generally very receptive to the process. Last time I did it, a student came to me after class and picked my brain on what he needed to get a darkroom set up. I gave him a rangefinder (Fujica Compact Deluxe - I had two ; ). He brought me some pics he'd done with XP2 Super using the Fujica. That guy was absolutely a convert ; )
... then brought out the box with the changing bag, Jobo tank, developer, fixer... etc. I would develop the film. The students had to watch what I did and write clear instructions on developing black and white - a very "instruction-y" process. They're always excited when they see the negs "come out". A few classes later I would bring in the contact print, a loupe, and a few prints I made.
Students were generally very receptive to the process. Last time I did it, a student came to me after class and picked my brain on what he needed to get a darkroom set up. I gave him a rangefinder (Fujica Compact Deluxe - I had two ; ). He brought me some pics he'd done with XP2 Super using the Fujica. That guy was absolutely a convert ; )
S
Socke
Guest
NickTrop said:
What puzzles me is how people who are unable to switch off a flash can develop a film. The digital rebell CAN be put into full manual, the only difference to an older camera is no aperture ring
The flash pops up in the scene modes which are called idiot modes for a reason.
rcoder
Member
What I (and I suspect many of you) want is a digital conversion process for my old manual rangefinders and SLRs. I'll happily keep the original shutter, meter,
and lenses; just give me an APS-C or larger sensor and storage module that fits in the space normally occupied by the film canister and pressure plate.
I don't need a preview LCD, or any other I/O interface -- the camera provides all the exposure controls I need, and if I want instant feedback, I'll shoot with my D70l. Just give me a rotary switch on the "digital film" package to select effective ISO, and a tiny LCD to show space remaining on the current SD card.
Barring that, I'll keep shooting film at least some of the time, simply because my old is quieter, more durable, and better-built than any digital gear I've tried.
and lenses; just give me an APS-C or larger sensor and storage module that fits in the space normally occupied by the film canister and pressure plate.
I don't need a preview LCD, or any other I/O interface -- the camera provides all the exposure controls I need, and if I want instant feedback, I'll shoot with my D70l. Just give me a rotary switch on the "digital film" package to select effective ISO, and a tiny LCD to show space remaining on the current SD card.
Barring that, I'll keep shooting film at least some of the time, simply because my old is quieter, more durable, and better-built than any digital gear I've tried.
mwooten
light user
rcoder said:
If I'm remembering right, there was a company that was working on just such a gadget several years ago. This was when dSLR's were so very expensive.
It would be sweet. Have some way for the film advance to both cock the shutter, and charge film can for each shot. Shooting digital with my fed3 or FM2. Oh well, it's sometimes fun to dream.
Michael
GeneW
Veteran
It's a fun anecdote for those of us who enjoy film cameras, but I wouldn't read too much into it. Certainly not a 'digital backlash'. Indeed, I've talked to many former film users (and darkroom hands) who assure me they'd NEVER go back to film, and can't understand why I still use it (along with digital).
It all comes down to personal taste. I like both media and use both. Others feel strongly about one or the other.
That's why there are so many different brews in the pub
Gene
It all comes down to personal taste. I like both media and use both. Others feel strongly about one or the other.
That's why there are so many different brews in the pub
Gene
John Rountree
Nothing is what I want
At the college where I teach I have a Photography Fundamentals class for Graphic Arts majors. The head of the Graphics Deaprtment and I have been talking for a couple of years about turning the calss to all digital since the computer is their primary tool. I decided that I would offer the class in all digital this Spring semester. On the first day of class I talked to the students aobut changing the course to all digital. They all agreed that the computer was their tool of choice. But, every one said they wanted to learn wet darkroom techniques raher than use digital. In fact two of them said they would probably drop the course if it was all digital. Film is a looooong way from dead!
pvdhaar
Peter
The fault here is not with digital; it all has to do with crummy kit lenses.
A DSLR with a constant f2.8 zoom is a joy to use, as is one with a 50/1.8 or similar. Heck, my 35-70 outresolves my 50 at f2.8. Go figure..
But with good lenses, digital and film are remarkably close in quality. It just so happens that you can get good second hand film lenses that cost a fortune 30 years ago for a song now..
A DSLR with a constant f2.8 zoom is a joy to use, as is one with a 50/1.8 or similar. Heck, my 35-70 outresolves my 50 at f2.8. Go figure..
But with good lenses, digital and film are remarkably close in quality. It just so happens that you can get good second hand film lenses that cost a fortune 30 years ago for a song now..
Xmas
Veteran
GeneW said:It's a fun anecdote for those of us who enjoy film cameras, but I wouldn't read too much into it. Certainly not a 'digital backlash'. Indeed, I've talked to many former film users (and darkroom hands) who assure me they'd NEVER go back to film, and can't understand why I still use it (along with digital).
It all comes down to personal taste. I like both media and use both. Others feel strongly about one or the other.
That's why there are so many different brews in the pub
Gene
Gene
Most people drink the asbestos, sorry keg, sorry pasturised and filtered, guess what they filter it through, perhaps they have stopped now.
Noel
IGMeanwell
Well-known
Yeah that is a story about kids who have trouble understanding how to get good images out of their cameras
Some of it is lenses, some of it is not being familiar with post processing, and also I have always found its easier to get a good photo with film than it is using my digital cameras.
Those guys (obviously close to my age) need to see how merits of both and learn how to get what they want out of any camera they use whether its digital or film.
Some of it is lenses, some of it is not being familiar with post processing, and also I have always found its easier to get a good photo with film than it is using my digital cameras.
Those guys (obviously close to my age) need to see how merits of both and learn how to get what they want out of any camera they use whether its digital or film.
mike goldberg
The Peaceful Pacific
>>That's why there are so many different brews in the pub
Ah, I like that one from Gene. In the morning, Costa Rican coffee beans, sometimes Columbian, Irish cream flavored beans and a bit of Starbucks Verona... in different combinations, go into the coffee grinder for our fresh, wake-up filtered brew ;-)
I do NOT find myself wishing that my film cameras do anything, other than what they were designed to do. Having rediscovered my 1965 Leica M2, just today [zowie!] the Bessa T ordered from CQ arrived. And, I've made more than a few very acceptable images with a small Canon S410 digicam.
It's like saying that apples are better than oranges. That does not make sense; they're both good! And, kudos to NickTrop above, for stirring the imagination of young people with a good film RF.
Ciao, mike
Ah, I like that one from Gene. In the morning, Costa Rican coffee beans, sometimes Columbian, Irish cream flavored beans and a bit of Starbucks Verona... in different combinations, go into the coffee grinder for our fresh, wake-up filtered brew ;-)
I do NOT find myself wishing that my film cameras do anything, other than what they were designed to do. Having rediscovered my 1965 Leica M2, just today [zowie!] the Bessa T ordered from CQ arrived. And, I've made more than a few very acceptable images with a small Canon S410 digicam.
It's like saying that apples are better than oranges. That does not make sense; they're both good! And, kudos to NickTrop above, for stirring the imagination of young people with a good film RF.
Ciao, mike
furcafe
Veteran
True, but modern cameras like the digital Rebel are clearly intended to be used primarily in automated modes. Manual focus is kludgy as the VFs are so dim, setting aperture & shutter speeds often requires using menus rather than easy to access dials, etc. This is not something limited to digital, of course, since the changeover to automation as the default mode took place w/film cameras, like the original Rebel, a long time before the advent of affordable digital.
Socke said:What puzzles me is how people who are unable to switch off a flash can develop a film. The digital rebell CAN be put into full manual, the only difference to an older camera is no aperture ring
The flash pops up in the scene modes which are called idiot modes for a reason.
K
Kin Lau
Guest
furcafe said:
We have about 10 AF slr's in our family, 3 dslrs including the Digital Rebel.
None of them require a menu to change aperture or shutter speeds. In fact, I can do it on all of them without looking up from the viewfinder and one-handed too.
The little digital P&S on the other hand, does require menus.
aizan
Veteran
we're talking about teenagers gaining more experience and developing their tastes. they'll be getting into medium and large format before you know it.
furcafe
Veteran
Well, good for you. It's been a while since I used a Rebel & I wouldn't use 1 in manual mode very often if I had 1. I have nothing against automation & convenience if that's what you're looking for in a tool. If I had a Rebel, or 5D, or whatever, I would have 1 precisely to be able to use the automated features. My point is simply that most modern cameras are clearly designed 1st & foremost to be used in automated mode(s) w/manual operation as an afterthought, e.g., there are many SLRs that don't even have DoF preview. Again, this has nothing to do w/digital, as automation took over film cameras 1st.
Kin Lau said:
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