Bike Tourist
Well-known
I'm in a unique position for me. I'm down to one camera, A Canon 5D, with no film cameras and no rangefinders, either. I've sold all my remaining film stock. I am definitely ready to purchase a digital rangefinder to compliment the 5D. This rangefinder should produce a noise-free image quality sufficient to gain acceptances on the stock sites.
Well, here goes . . . Let's see . . .
Leica M8. I could ignore the few issues with this camera, but I'm not able to ignore the price. Let's move on, quickly, before I'm tempted.
Epson RD-1. There's a lot i could like about this one. The price is still pretty high though, and the availability is not too good, the service could be a consideration and it's a crap shoot if you end up with a good one or a bad one. Epson will not make more of them. Reluctantly, let's move on and consider rangefinder-like cameras since this field is obviously not crowded.
Sigma DP-1. It's got an f4 lens. Not very exciting. Oh, I forgot . . . you can't buy one now. Sigma doesn't know when you can.
Ricoh GR-D or even GX-100. These little jewells have tiny little sensors and, according to what I've read, they struggle with noise even at ISO 80 and 100. Nice concept, well executed except for the basic flaw of being built around a sensor more appropriate for a cell phone.
Next, we have . . . hmmmm. I've run out of ideas. Did I miss anything?
Do I have to buy more film?
Well, here goes . . . Let's see . . .
Leica M8. I could ignore the few issues with this camera, but I'm not able to ignore the price. Let's move on, quickly, before I'm tempted.
Epson RD-1. There's a lot i could like about this one. The price is still pretty high though, and the availability is not too good, the service could be a consideration and it's a crap shoot if you end up with a good one or a bad one. Epson will not make more of them. Reluctantly, let's move on and consider rangefinder-like cameras since this field is obviously not crowded.
Sigma DP-1. It's got an f4 lens. Not very exciting. Oh, I forgot . . . you can't buy one now. Sigma doesn't know when you can.
Ricoh GR-D or even GX-100. These little jewells have tiny little sensors and, according to what I've read, they struggle with noise even at ISO 80 and 100. Nice concept, well executed except for the basic flaw of being built around a sensor more appropriate for a cell phone.
Next, we have . . . hmmmm. I've run out of ideas. Did I miss anything?
Do I have to buy more film?
gavinlg
Veteran
Okay. You have a 5d - you have a cutting edge digital camera that is more or less one of if not the best on the market. The m8 will equal or surpass outright resolution and sharpness, but noise isn't very good in comparison. It's an easy camera to use, very strong, leica is excellent with service and you know it'll probably still be supported in 20 years.
The epson on the other hand is quite dull in image quality in comparison to the 5d and the m8. It has a strong AA filter, so the images need lots of sharpening. The image quality is good, but not near the 5d or m8. However, the noise is a bit better than the m8. It only goes to 1600iso, the m8 goes to 2500iso.
The service on the epson is non existant and it's not backed by pretty much anyone. it's not particularly strong either.
The ricoh GRD for the price is pretty cool - good lens, the sensor doesn't allow any DOF control and therefor i didn't consider it. However it's small, well built, and has no smudgy smeary noise control, however because of the small sensor and no noise reduction, is very noisy. It's cheap so thats a good thing.
Sigma dp1 - looks interesting but that damn f4 lens and no one really knows whats going on with it. I'll look closely at it when it comes out. It has an APSc sensor so should be pretty close to a DSLR in quality.
If money was no object to me in your position, I'd get the m8. Just know that the 5d is a very good camera and the m8 would be hard pressed to beat the 5d.
I've had an r-d1 and sold it because the image quality from my 30d was as good or better, the 30d I knock around all day, shoot in the rain, chuck in my bag, never clean and its never skipped a beat. Just from keeping the r-d1 in a case, it got paint wear on the corners. My one was reliable otherwise but many others aren't.
I sold it to go back to a film camera - probably a beater m6 or voigtlander r4m.
The epson on the other hand is quite dull in image quality in comparison to the 5d and the m8. It has a strong AA filter, so the images need lots of sharpening. The image quality is good, but not near the 5d or m8. However, the noise is a bit better than the m8. It only goes to 1600iso, the m8 goes to 2500iso.
The service on the epson is non existant and it's not backed by pretty much anyone. it's not particularly strong either.
The ricoh GRD for the price is pretty cool - good lens, the sensor doesn't allow any DOF control and therefor i didn't consider it. However it's small, well built, and has no smudgy smeary noise control, however because of the small sensor and no noise reduction, is very noisy. It's cheap so thats a good thing.
Sigma dp1 - looks interesting but that damn f4 lens and no one really knows whats going on with it. I'll look closely at it when it comes out. It has an APSc sensor so should be pretty close to a DSLR in quality.
If money was no object to me in your position, I'd get the m8. Just know that the 5d is a very good camera and the m8 would be hard pressed to beat the 5d.
I've had an r-d1 and sold it because the image quality from my 30d was as good or better, the 30d I knock around all day, shoot in the rain, chuck in my bag, never clean and its never skipped a beat. Just from keeping the r-d1 in a case, it got paint wear on the corners. My one was reliable otherwise but many others aren't.
I sold it to go back to a film camera - probably a beater m6 or voigtlander r4m.
gavinlg
Veteran
double post. Go the m8.
Finder
Veteran
I would ask what the DRF is going to do that the DSLR is not. Is it worth having two systems.
Bike Tourist
Well-known
Gavin —
The M8 it is, then. I'll start saving for it today. Of course, I am in my seventies, so it will be a race against time!
Finder —
The DRF will do nothing that the DSLR can't do. But the experience of photographing with an RF is quite different, as you know. And, it's generally a little more compact and easily transported.
Since there is a dearth of high quality compacts, I have considered getting a Nikon D40x with 35/2 lens or some other equivilent rig for a small camera to take anywhere, including bicycle trips.
The M8 it is, then. I'll start saving for it today. Of course, I am in my seventies, so it will be a race against time!
Finder —
The DRF will do nothing that the DSLR can't do. But the experience of photographing with an RF is quite different, as you know. And, it's generally a little more compact and easily transported.
Since there is a dearth of high quality compacts, I have considered getting a Nikon D40x with 35/2 lens or some other equivilent rig for a small camera to take anywhere, including bicycle trips.
Matthew Allen
Well-known
Bike Tourist said:
If you do decide to get a small DSLR as well, you might consider Pentax. Unlike the Nikon, the budget Pentax DSLRs give you DOF preview and an interesting selection of AF primes. If you got the K100D you'd also have Shake Reduction which does actually work.
Matthew
photogdave
Shops local
I agree with this 100%! The K100D is a much better buy than the D40x. The Limited primes are excellent lenses and you have much better backwards lens compatibility as well. Great camera for the $$$!Matthew Allen said:
Gid
Well-known
Have a look at the Olympus E410 or E510. Small (410 is very small), 10 MP, good selection of lenses, can use old OM lenses, Leica R, Pentax and Nikon lenses via an adapter. IQ is fine, but not up to 5D quality (in a test environment). Size comparison in image below (E400 and E410 are the same size).
Maybe film is the best option
Maybe film is the best option
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Gid, you beat me to the suggestion
Dick, I second Gid's encouragement to consider the E-410. I was skeptical until I actually held one... wow!
You do stock photography, right? this one is so small and compact, it will just plop into your bike pack and your other travels.
Dick, I second Gid's encouragement to consider the E-410. I was skeptical until I actually held one... wow!
You do stock photography, right? this one is so small and compact, it will just plop into your bike pack and your other travels.
Gabriel M.A.
My Red Dot Glows For You
Resistence is futileBike Tourist said:
Gid
Well-known
Gabriel M.A. said:Resistence is futile
As I know to my cost
keithwms
Established
My reluctance to invest in any of the current digital RFs led me to bite the bullet and get a very lightweight DSLR.
I got a Nikon d40x. Go ahead, laugh. I like simplicity. It suffices, if you really must shoot digitally and want the non-intrusive pocket-size utility of an RF in a <gasp> dslr. I use it with fast primes, and for that the VF doesn't annoy. ~$600. And there are wads of great manual primes to be had, even ZFs if you want.
The guy at the counter will tell you that you cannot use the d40x with manual primes. Nonsense, who needs a meter. Check the histo if you are that obsessive. Put a pancake on it and you have a pocket camera that's actually pretty quiet. Hey you could even put an accessory VF on there, that's an idea!
For my taste the current DRF market is just far too limited to encourage me to invest. Just my own feeling- nobody should take it personally
I guess I will furnish a shot from the baby x:
Huck Finn didn't even hear it
I got a Nikon d40x. Go ahead, laugh. I like simplicity. It suffices, if you really must shoot digitally and want the non-intrusive pocket-size utility of an RF in a <gasp> dslr. I use it with fast primes, and for that the VF doesn't annoy. ~$600. And there are wads of great manual primes to be had, even ZFs if you want.
The guy at the counter will tell you that you cannot use the d40x with manual primes. Nonsense, who needs a meter. Check the histo if you are that obsessive. Put a pancake on it and you have a pocket camera that's actually pretty quiet. Hey you could even put an accessory VF on there, that's an idea!
For my taste the current DRF market is just far too limited to encourage me to invest. Just my own feeling- nobody should take it personally
I guess I will furnish a shot from the baby x:
Huck Finn didn't even hear it
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m3photo
Newbie
I heartily recommend the pancake route ...
I heartily recommend the pancake route ...
Please take a look at the following, all shot with a Pentax K10D + either the 21mm or the 70mm (32 and 105 mm equivalents in 35mm) - the perfect light-travel, good-quality combo:
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/capri
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/florence
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/rome
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/malta
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/tunis
I heartily recommend the pancake route ...
... it's the one I took and am highly satisfied.Matthew Allen said:
Please take a look at the following, all shot with a Pentax K10D + either the 21mm or the 70mm (32 and 105 mm equivalents in 35mm) - the perfect light-travel, good-quality combo:
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/capri
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/florence
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/rome
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/malta
http://www.pbase.com/m3photo/tunis
Gid
Well-known
keithwms said:My reluctance to invest in any of the current digital RFs led me to bite the bullet and get a very lightweight DSLR.
I got a Nikon d40x. Go ahead, laugh. I like simplicity. It suffices, if you really must shoot digitally and want the non-intrusive pocket-size utility of an RF in a <gasp> dslr. I use it with fast primes, and for that the VF doesn't annoy. ~$600. And there are wads of great manual primes to be had, even ZFs if you want.
The guy at the counter will tell you that you cannot use the d40x with manual primes. Nonsense, who needs a meter. Check the histo if you are that obsessive. Put a pancake on it and you have a pocket camera that's actually pretty quiet. Hey you could even put an accessory VF on there, that's an idea!
For my taste the current DRF market is just far too limited to encourage me to invest. Just my own feeling- nobody should take it personally
I guess I will furnish a shot from the baby x:
Huck Finn didn't even hear it
Great shot. Don't care what you used to take it
Bike Tourist
Well-known
Thanks for all the excellent ideas. Lots to think about!