shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
For years I've been puzzled by the fact that in about 8 out of 10 rolls of 35mm film that I developed, I get some water residue spots of variable sizes on the glossy side of my negatives (it never happened on the emulsion side).
And in the beginning I used Photo-flo religiously, but it doesn't make a lot of difference.
It looks like this when scanned (see those white circles above the crack on the window):
Some of them are larger and overall very visible and annoying. And no, darkroom prints are not immune to this even though I use a diffuser enlarger.
NOTE: Strangely, I've never seen anything like it on my 120 rolls, same water, same development procedure.
I knew it has to do with my tap water, but I'm too lazy to do anything about it other than wiping the negative with a damp paper towel before scanning or printing it. It seems to take care of the problem apart from when I missed a spot or two... or three.
Early this summer, I finally get off my butt and get a jug of distilled water, paying 89 cents per gallon and remember wondering if I can even justify the cost considering I use almost a gallon when developing as few as two 35mm rolls.
But then I rejoice because what I found out is, I don't have to use the distilled water throughout the process, I just need to make sure that I do the final wash/rinse using it.
Now my 35mm rolls are clean as a whistle, and my 89 cents jug of distilled water can last me up to six rolls. Not that bad.
Hope this is useful for those who live in an area that has the same type of tap water as I do in my house.
And in the beginning I used Photo-flo religiously, but it doesn't make a lot of difference.
It looks like this when scanned (see those white circles above the crack on the window):
Some of them are larger and overall very visible and annoying. And no, darkroom prints are not immune to this even though I use a diffuser enlarger.
NOTE: Strangely, I've never seen anything like it on my 120 rolls, same water, same development procedure.
I knew it has to do with my tap water, but I'm too lazy to do anything about it other than wiping the negative with a damp paper towel before scanning or printing it. It seems to take care of the problem apart from when I missed a spot or two... or three.
Early this summer, I finally get off my butt and get a jug of distilled water, paying 89 cents per gallon and remember wondering if I can even justify the cost considering I use almost a gallon when developing as few as two 35mm rolls.
But then I rejoice because what I found out is, I don't have to use the distilled water throughout the process, I just need to make sure that I do the final wash/rinse using it.
Now my 35mm rolls are clean as a whistle, and my 89 cents jug of distilled water can last me up to six rolls. Not that bad.
Hope this is useful for those who live in an area that has the same type of tap water as I do in my house.
rogerzilla
Well-known
In conjunction with wetting agent, a film squeegee works but you MUST wash it thoroughly just before use (run your fingers along the blades whikle it's under running water, to ensure they're clean). And NEVER be tempted to squeegee more than once without cleaning it again - you will nearly always scratch the film. In these days of scanning and Photoshop that's not as serious as it once was, but it's still bad.
timor
Well-known
Shadowfox. Review, please, your film handling up to pouring first bath in to a tank. Are there differences between 35mm ans 120 film ? In the way You touch the film ?
My observation is, that water spots are caused by "dirt" on the surface of film, which prevent water flow. The droplet stays there, drys out living residue of water stone. Distilled water is supposed not to have it. But going in this line of thoughts I started to wash my negs in good detergent. After fixing short rinse in clean water, then dip into the detergent with vigorous agitation for about 1 min. Then regular rinse in tap water (watch the temp.) , after rinse back to detergent, but this time much weaker solution. You will have to determinate for yourself (water condition) how much You need just to break water surface tension. To strong solution may leave smudges, but this are not permanent. I am using detergent for floor washing, it has very low foaming action. No more water spots.
My observation is, that water spots are caused by "dirt" on the surface of film, which prevent water flow. The droplet stays there, drys out living residue of water stone. Distilled water is supposed not to have it. But going in this line of thoughts I started to wash my negs in good detergent. After fixing short rinse in clean water, then dip into the detergent with vigorous agitation for about 1 min. Then regular rinse in tap water (watch the temp.) , after rinse back to detergent, but this time much weaker solution. You will have to determinate for yourself (water condition) how much You need just to break water surface tension. To strong solution may leave smudges, but this are not permanent. I am using detergent for floor washing, it has very low foaming action. No more water spots.
PMCC
Late adopter.
KISS procedure that works for me: a very few (countable) drops of Photo-flo in solution with distilled water for the final standing wash, for 30-45 seconds. Hang to drip dry, do not touch negatives with anything, be it fingers or squeegees. At 3-4 rolls/liter in a stainless steel tank, a gallon of distilled water shouldn't be a budget breaker.
Chuck Albertson
Well-known
I just use distilled water to mix up the final bath in PhotoFlo. A gallon rinses considerably more than six rolls. I also use distilled water to mix a 5-liter batch of Xtol, even though Kodak says (or used to say) that wasn't necessary. I get more consistent results with it, and don't over-analyze why.
Bingley
Veteran
I do the same as Peter (PMCC). The tap water in my neighborhood is fairly hard, and I had problems w/ water spots when I started developing my own film. Using distilled water for the final wash followed by a dunk in a photoflo solution cleared up that problem. I don't touch the negs after I hang them up to dry. I do turn the shower on in the bathroom to raise the humidity level... keeps the dust down. I also mix all my chemistry w/ distilled water.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I also use distilled water with 2 drops of Photoflo per reel for the final rinse. I use tap water for everything but the final rinse.
I resisted using distilled water for ten years because I was too cheap to pay $1- per gallon. Finally gave in and it solved the water spot problem.
I too never had a problem with 120 negs, only 35mm. Must be something to do with the sprocket holes.
I resisted using distilled water for ten years because I was too cheap to pay $1- per gallon. Finally gave in and it solved the water spot problem.
I too never had a problem with 120 negs, only 35mm. Must be something to do with the sprocket holes.
wgerrard
Veteran
Come to think of it, water certainly could collect in sprocket holes. If it didn't drain out onto the negatives until after most of the drying was done, it could easily account for those spots. Distilled water would behave the same way, but without leaving any mineral residue behind when it evaporates.
neelin
Established
I solved my problems using a couple of drops of Photoflo per 250ml distilled water. I then allow to hang for a couple of minutes, then Rocket blower the non-emulsion side only. Never have problems with the emulsion side of 35mm. I believe 120 has a retouchable surface of the non-emulsion side, possibly could make it drain like the emulsion side & not bead up like the non-emulsion side of 35mm.
semilog
curmudgeonly optimist
Exactly my regime, too.
sazerac
Well-known
Back when I started photography someone told me not to use photo flow on my reels and in my tanks because it would leave a residue. I have been removing the film from my reels and soaking the film in a bucket of photo flow and then hang to dry. I use stainless reels. Has anyone else heard of this? This is one old habit I'd like to drop to make my life easier.
Bob Michaels
nobody special
I have ignored the Photoflo residue story for about 12 years using Paterson plastic reels. Never had a problem. I simply rinse the reels in hot water after use.
While the internet is great at disseminating information, it spreads bad info as well as good.
sazerac
Well-known
Thanks! I had heard thus rumor pre-Internet in my college days. One of the old photogs at the camera store speculated that the low density on my negatives near the sprocket holes was due to photo flow residue leaching into the film during development. I need to find some of those old negs and scan one as an example.
RFH
rfhansen.wordpress.com
Hey guys, don't complain about $1/gallon. I just paid $6.50 for 5 liters here in Copenhagen, which is like $4/gallon. I plan on using small amounts for the final rinse, so it'll be cheap enough. Better than chalk stains, that's for sure.
I'll try it on the first roll from my newly acquired Ricoh GR1.
I'll try it on the first roll from my newly acquired Ricoh GR1.
benlees
Well-known
$1 a gallon is very cheap! I use distilled water as a rinse after the final tap water clean/rinse and then again with a bit of photo flo. Hard water around here! Might try the Brita option. Having jugs of distilled water all around can be cumbersome.
Chuck Albertson
Well-known
It's not that bad. I keep three or four gallons of the stuff stashed as an emergency water supply for when the Big Quake hits, so it's dual-purpose. Just replace it as it's used for photo uses.
wojtek
Established
Hmm, I have never tried Photoflo but I am adding a couple of drops of Ilford's wetting agent to the final, distilled water rinse bath. However, this isn't always helping and I can still see the 'spots' (or foam marks, even). If I discard the Ilford Ilfotol and just rinse in the distilled water, there's of course no foam marks, but I still get the drop spots...
Maybe it's time to try the Photoflo... Is it considerably better than Ilfotol?
Maybe it's time to try the Photoflo... Is it considerably better than Ilfotol?
Chuck Albertson
Well-known
Do Ilford's instructions specify "a couple of drops" per tank, or some other measure? Try that before switching to another wetting agent. When I mix up PhotoFlo, it's at 1:200, just like it says on the bottle.
Benjamin Marks
Veteran
I have done as Bob Michaels has for years. If you can't get distilled water, but have a dehumidifier, the water in the catch tray is essentially like distilled. Pour it through a coffee filter to remove dust etc. and you are set with a couple of drops of photoflo (I use Sprint's EndRun, but same concept).
Distilled water is cheap insurance when you factor all the time and effort that goes into making a photograph.
Ben Marks
Distilled water is cheap insurance when you factor all the time and effort that goes into making a photograph.
Ben Marks
Bingley
Veteran
I use Ilford's wetting agent, and it's the same: recommended dilution is 1:200. I mix up a batch and re-use it for maybe 8-10 rolls, then dump and make up a fresh batch.