Do cameras appreicate?

[Will]

Came across an article about investing a portion of your saving in collectables a hour ago, a question generated in my mind...

...do cameras appreciate?

1.) Collectables like a Contax 2A, Nikon SP, Alpa 135 SLR, not the plastic SLRs that the japanese manufacturers are trying to sell by the millions.

2.) Please also consider that we are in the middle of changing the recording medium (film to digitial). One day there might be DSLRs or DRFs that are comparable to what we are doing on film now for not much more money (like 350D vs EOS-33V now, only lof a smaller price differences), and that would be a good thing for shooters and I honestly think it is not a bad thing, as we are moving with time.


The buyers will buy a Nikon SP 10 years from now, are just as likely to buy now if the have the cash (us? 😀 ), so what will the classic camera market be like 10 years from now?





😀

 

[RML]

At least some cameras don't lose value. Having a collectible item that doesn't increase in value but still increases in price in the same rate as inflation is IMO already a pretty good collectible. Secondhand Leicas nowadays have an inflation-corrected price that is quite similar to the retail price when the cameras were new.

 

[Duncan Ross]

Annoyingly probably the best example of cameras increasing in value is the Zenith Lomo. They've shot up.

I'm wondering if my loft-full of flashbulbs will do the same, maybe I should use less!

 

[RObert Budding]

I'd avoid putting any substantial portion of savings into collectables because the future value will depend, to some degree, on what is fashionable. Stocks and bonds, on the other hand, derive value from the cash flow they generate - their value is intrinsic. So buy cameras and enjoy using them. Just don't expect them to fund your retirement.

Robert

P.S. - I work for a large mutual fund company. Above is a personal opinion and is not meant to represent the opinion of my employer.

 

[RObert Budding]

The very best investment book I have ever read:

"The Four Pillars of Investing," by William Bernstein.

It's a very easy read - you don't need a background in statistics to understand it.

Good luck.
Robert

 

[Nick R.]

Good cameras appreciate; bad ones take everything for granted.

One problem with camera collecting is that no one throws cameras away. You can still find cameras from the turn of the last century, which use long outdated film, collecting dust in peoples' attics. The only old cameras that really have any value are those which had a lot of value when they were new, like Leicas and Nikons for example. Cameras which were expensive to begin with and have kept there relative values. There aren't many bargains in camera collecting.

 

[peter_n]

Robert I can imagine what that company is - look after my pathetic little bit of saved money well please! 😀

Will as Robert & Nick say, buy good quality and use it and you will be able to sell for (relatively speaking) roughly what you paid.

The profit is the enjoyment you get from using the camera. 🙂

 

[Sonnar Brian]

It depends if you use them for really great photographs. They always appreciate that.

In all seriousness, the "camera value" bubble probably burst a few years ago. I Black Nikon SP sold for $25,000 and a 5cm F1.1 went for $12,000 a few years ago. Too many people "investing" and not collecting. Mint M3's going for $1,500 and up. Little variations commanding enormous prices.

With that said, the fun part of camera collecting (and making a little money) is walking into an antique store and picking up a Nikon M sync with 5cm F1.4 lens for $30. Even needing a major CLA, it would easily sell for over $1K as a parts camera. But will it get $9K as people wanted a few years ago? Probably not.

The trick is knowing current prices, buying for less than that, and selling for more. Predicting the future? HA! Just always buy for less than you know that you can sell it for. And if prices drop, I get happy that cameras that I really wanted are now more affordable.

And places like RFF can create Bubble prices. Look at the Canon P vs the Canon VI. There are 10x the number of Canon P's than Canon VI-L's, the VI has a better finder, and the price on the P has gone up 50% after SOMEONE talked it up.

 

[peter_n]

I wonder who that could be... 😉

 

[Solinar]

Appreciate? Maybe not, but most of the better cameras should hold most of their value provided that there is still an infrastructure to support 35mm film.

With regards to collecting, I guess the key words are condition, rarity and how long you intend to own the camera. Collectors fret about scratched base plates and minor cleaning marks on lens coatings. Rarity is overrated from a users perspective, but a pristine Leica IIIg will sell for 4 times what either of my IIIf screw mounts are worth. The IIIg only offers modest improvements over the IIIf, which was Leica's mainstay until the production of the M3 was ramped up. As time goes by, there are fewer and fewer pristine examples of a particular camera up for grabs as some of them wind up as users.

 

[back alley]

I wonder who that could be... 😉

anyone have a canon vi-l for sale...🙂

joe

 

[RJBender]

... the fun part of camera collecting (and making a little money) is walking into an antique store and picking up a Nikon M sync with 5cm F1.4 lens for $30. Even needing a major CLA, it would easily sell for over $1K as a parts camera. But will it get $9K as people wanted a few years ago? Probably not.

The trick is knowing current prices, buying for less than that, and selling for more. Predicting the future? HA! Just always buy for less than you know that you can sell it for. And if prices drop, I get happy that cameras that I really wanted are now more affordable...QUOTE]

I agree with Brian. Make collecting a treasure hunt not a calculated investment. Check the completed auctions on eBay and look at the prices sellers are getting. Then, when you find a Zunow lens cap in a camera store's $1 bin or a LTM Zunow lens at an estate sale for $40 you'll know how much you want to "invest."
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7538957720
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7529788575

R.J.

 

[zpuskas]

I agree, I would not invest a substantial portion of my money in collectibles. One great example...Beany babies.....at on time they were going for thousands, now you can't give them away.
By something you like--a good photograph, camera, etc--use it amd if it increases in value, great. If not, you haven't lost anything. We humans are fickle bunch and change loyalties quickly.

 

[RObert Budding]

There is another aspect to camera collecting - it is fun! It might be less fun if I were trying to make money buying and selling.

As it is, I'm happy to use a camera for a few years and then pass it on to another photographer. And I'm happy if I can sell for either a modest gain or a modest loss, which I usually can.

Robert

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Camera collecting is fun. A few years ago, investors were starting to buy "investment grade cameras" like mint M3's and Nikon SP's. Prices skyrocketed. The same people that took the fun out of coin collecting and baseball were going into cameras. I think the bubble has burst, and can't believe that some advise to "invest" in cameras.

 

[XAos]

To a certain degree, collectibles are kinda like the emperor's new clothes. If you're trying to profit on it, you have to buy it BEFORE everyone knows that it's gonna shoot through the roof, but I have yet to witness the 8 track player explosion on ebay. Sure some people do well, but they tend to be people that already were collecting and then the market gets silly around them and they decide to cash in. It really helps if you can have a hand in creating the hysteria in the first place (cough cough magazine writers). Even there - it's all to easy to say, "my nikon collection paid for itself" and failing to count all the other collectible hobby crap you own related to it.

Truth be told, the single most profitable most Americans can make is paying off debt. Investing on margins is always risky, but if you're using the credit card to make an investment as risky as collectibles, you're really crazy.

 

[johne]

I have heard about the increase in camera value, especially of Leicas. My IIIF also seems to just like me! Just a comment 🙂) Johne [Pun intended.]

 

[sf]

what appreciates?

what appreciates?

Depends on what becomes extinct, what becomes trendy, what evolves in the industry. First run models are valuable to collectors (serial #1 is worth tons more than serial #2345234 - to collectors). Films that go out of production will become "valuable" sooner or later. I know people that will pay for type R paper - lots, because it does not exist, and they want to print their E-6. I know certain shops what still have paper in their production stocks and will charge nice (for them) prices for type R prints.

 

[Sonnar Brian]

Looking back at a 1991 Shutterbug, when you correct for inflation most cameras have not really appreciated in value. Some vintage cameras have dropped. Others went up, then "recessed". The rare items, like a Black finish 8.5cm F2 in S-Mount are up there. Again, treating it like a treasure hunt or being able to "add-value" to a camera in need of repair can yield some spending money. At one time I was turning 400% profit on EBay. My pair of near mint SP's came out of it. I'm sure that they would fetch a good bit after someone pries them out of my Cold, Dead hands.

EDIT: My pre-production Nikon F2 with the all-metal film advance (no plastic tip like most F2's) was $75 at a camera show. That was the second one from the pre-production batch that I stumbled across at a camera show.

 

[kiev4a]

As someone else noted, prices on the most collectable cameras haven't done much more than keep up with inflation.

I enjoy my FSU cameras but have no thoughts I'll ever make any money on them. There may come a time when their value will increase--not because they are cameras--but because they are products of the old Soviet Union.

I collect books, too, but even the most valuable copies I have haven't really gained that much in actual dollar value. For example I've got one relatively rare book that sold for $4.95 when published in 1941. Today, in like new condition it's worth about $125. But what would $4.95 buy in 1941? -- probably about what $125 will buy today.