Do you expect film prices to ever go down?

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TheMapleLeafForever

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It seems the cost of film is rising every year. Some say this is a good thing so that companies like Kodak can re-invest into production and so on. But can we expect film prices to go down in the near future, or at least not rise above the regular inflation rates?
 
Nope.

Film could only go down if here is significant demand in quantities.
Right now it is less and less. Old times users are quitting for all kind of reasons.
New users are nowhere near old time users.

Old time film usage was keeping prices low due to absence of digital and due to extensive use by significant amount of photographers.

These days photography is more and more phone oriented, with less and less dedicated cameras, lenses in use.
Those who wants it are using film cameras just to feel good. It feels good to wear them in public, to talk with strangers about film and rave about film look.
While camera is not even loaded with film or one roll is sitting in camera for months.

I'm currently in one roll for months category.
I have no energy to do it just like I was doing it in 2019. I love to print for one hour in the darkroom, twice a month maximum. After five or so prints I'm like "why I'm doing this? Oh, film look"...

And sooner or later film will become taboo under eco commies or animal rights activist. Film making is not cool process and so is developing.
Also darkroom is not something possible with where modern society is going. It is all about living in tiny condos. Which means give it to the lab and it makes price on film even more ridiculous.

Few days ago, I paid 15 CAD for roll of 36 fr Ultramax 400. Dirt cheap, consumer, one hour lab film. Few years ago it was price for three 24 rolls at local Walmart.

Do you really think Kodak shareholders want those prices to reverse?
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Nope.

Few days ago, I paid 15 CAD for roll of 36 fr Ultramax 400. Dirt cheap, consumer, one hour lab film. Few years ago it was price for three 24 rolls at local Walmart.
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Where do you usually like to get your film from? Downtown Camera in Toronto is too damn expensive compared to B&H even with shipping.
 
Film is now a speciality item ...more for fanatical hobbyists and dabbling image expermentalists giving it a temporary try.

It is supply and demand like anything else that is made and manufacturers and retailers will charge what the market can bear and will not make it or sell it for a monetary loss or out of nostalgia.
 
TheMapleLeafForever said:
Where do you usually like to get your film from? Downtown Camera in Toronto is too damn expensive compared to B&H even with shipping.
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DTC gives significant discount on Kodak products, including films.
I still have bulks of bw and ECN2 films, but just can't see the use for them now.
In late 2019, earlier 2020 I was on TMAX 3200 from DTC. One roll, every other week or less. Good times...

With C-19 lockdown while no real restrictions on travel, I have zero interest in main, of not only subject for film photography. Which was street, candid.
Maybe by the end of 2021, streets are going to be safe from this.
I might stay on one roll per two weeks from DTC or use my bulks again.
For BW.

To my huge disappointment local Walmart doesn't have 16 CAD Kodak Gold packs of three 24 anymore. This was my only place to get C-41 film, which our daughter like to use. But she seems to going to one roll per months during epidemic times.

Hopefully, after epidemic I'll keep on getting 15 CAD rolls of C-41 from local camera shops and maybe paying something like 130 CAD for BH to get free shipping of bulk of film or two. This will keep me going for entire year.
My days of street, travel photography predominately on film might be over...
 
No ...

whether there are few people shooting film
Or a Renaissance of the masses
I seriously doubt prices will go down
 
Obviously I don't think it will for a whole number of reasons, but I also don't feel that my core emulsions, mostly Ilford, plus Tri-X, have gone up appreciably. Ive seen plenty of films I fall in love with (just scanned some APX100 from 17 years ago, and Neopan 400 from 10 years ago...) come and go, but to me it seems like a roll of HP5 has been around $5-6USD for a while now. TMax seems to have gone up, but I buy bulk.

Color film (and the new $11-a-roll Acros II) is a different story. B&W is a niche product with a variety of uses, easier to manufacture and easier to process at home, whereas color is competing directly with digital and is beholden to the whims of Kodak and Fuji. I'm glad to see Ektachrome back, but I struggle to find much justification for it when I can shoot digital, and the complexity of color emulsions means you're not going to find someone like Adox jumping in to compete anytime soon.

Not to make this post cynical, but what I can't fully understand are some of the costs of rebranded films like JCH or Lomography. Not knocking the quality—I've come to really love Foma 100—but there was an article a while back I came across, I believe written by the owner of Kosmo Foto (Foma in a very nice looking box) on why we should support the industry by buying these rebranded products. I'm all for helping out the little guy but struggle to follow that logic when I could support my local B&M by buying the original brand at 1/3rd the price there.
 
TheMapleLeafForever said:
Where do you usually like to get your film from? Downtown Camera in Toronto is too damn expensive compared to B&H even with shipping.
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Join their AFAM club and get 25% off Kodak prices plus a free roll of film.
With the discount they comparable to B&H prices with exchange rate and shipping factored in.
 
TheMapleLeafForever said:
How much more expensive is film now compared to in its heyday?



I was still a child in the 2000s, so I have no idea.
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It is still relatively affordable now even with the lack of demand from 30 yrs ago.

Film in Canada or Europe was never a bargain like say in the USA.

In the early 1990s a 30.5 metres or 100' of 35mm Ilford HP-5 bulk load film was around $45 to $48 CAD not including tax in Canada and that went up to $ 60 CAD by the late 1990s which going by the inflation calculator is now $75 and $ 98 CAD

Henry's in Canada now sells 35mm HP-5 + of 30.5 metres for around $ 110 CAD not including tax so it is not as bad as people imagine....but that could change as the Kodak equivalent is sold at a much higher price than that at the same photo store.
 
TheMapleLeafForever said:
How much more expensive is film now compared to in its heyday?



I was still a child in the 2000s, so I have no idea.
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Well, I just pulled up Freestyle's website in the Wayback machine for what I assume is the year of your birth, and let's see. (and oh boy, I forgot about Kodak's old packaging from that era)

Neopan Acros, 135/36exp—$4.49
Delta 400, ditto — $4.89
TMax 100, ditto — $4.99
HP5 — $3.59
Fujicolor NPH400 — $5.99
Portra 160NC — $7.59

And I could go on. Amazing too how many color stocks are gone. So many different Superias.

Plugged some of these numbers into Inflation Calculator and...they're not far off the prices today (e.g. HP5 with inflation: $5.19; current price at Freestyle: $5.99. Portra at $10.98 vs 11.24)



So at least since I've started shooting in earnest, film has decidedly stayed mostly the same. Hopefully some of those older than I, or at least with older catalogs, can chime in.

But supports my original point. Even processing—a decade ago when I was between darkrooms, developing BW and medium-res scans at Hunt's in Boston was around $12-14, about what places now seem to charge.

If anything, I'd say shooting film, as a pursuit, is cheaper. You can buy pro gear for a fraction of MSRP, develop at home, and scan with a slightly older digital camera, and your cost per roll comes down to...very little. I don't exactly miss wet printing, and I trust my inkjet prints to an experienced local lab who is shockingly inexpensive for exhibition grade work.
 
I don't expect a price drop in the future for general availability. I'll be happy if it generally stays close to inflation rates for price change given that it's a niche product.
 
I don't expect any major price drops, however it's not more expensive for me - it's actually slightly cheaper on the whole than 15 years ago.

I shot around 120 rolls in 2020 which is pretty solid considering we were locked down here in NZ for 3-4 months, and I've taken no trips or holidays. I've taken by contrast about 400 Digital photos, most of which were for selling film gear.
The 2 local labs within walking distance of me both continue to report steady increases in film sold and film developed, one of them moved into a bigger premise and brought in more machines to handle the workload.

My prediction is film prices will stay about line-ball with inflation and film in general will further cement itself as a solid niche with serious photographers.
 
Same?
Same Kodak film I was using few years ago jumped from 16 CAD for pack of three 24 to 15 CAD for one 36.
I started to use BW film in 2012 and Kentemere bulks were 29 USD, now it is way up. Nowhere near to 29 USD.

And whole inflation argument... Maybe if you are uninionazed or in government sector. The rest who feeds them often are in same or less after 2008 collapse income. Same income, just higher prices and not only on film.


Takkun said:
Well, I just pulled up Freestyle's website in the Wayback machine for what I assume is the year of your birth, and let's see. (and oh boy, I forgot about Kodak's old packaging from that era)

Neopan Acros, 135/36exp—$4.49
Delta 400, ditto — $4.89
TMax 100, ditto — $4.99
HP5 — $3.59
Fujicolor NPH400 — $5.99
Portra 160NC — $7.59

And I could go on. Amazing too how many color stocks are gone. So many different Superias.

Plugged some of these numbers into Inflation Calculator and...they're not far off the prices today (e.g. HP5 with inflation: $5.19; current price at Freestyle: $5.99. Portra at $10.98 vs 11.24)



So at least since I've started shooting in earnest, film has decidedly stayed mostly the same. Hopefully some of those older than I, or at least with older catalogs, can chime in.

But supports my original point. Even processing—a decade ago when I was between darkrooms, developing BW and medium-res scans at Hunt's in Boston was around $12-14, about what places now seem to charge.

If anything, I'd say shooting film, as a pursuit, is cheaper. You can buy pro gear for a fraction of MSRP, develop at home, and scan with a slightly older digital camera, and your cost per roll comes down to...very little. I don't exactly miss wet printing, and I trust my inkjet prints to an experienced local lab who is shockingly inexpensive for exhibition grade work.
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Gavin—that matches what I’ve anecdotally observed here. Friend at the local dealer here said that when things first shut down around here (and we were the first), it was gangbusters as everyone working at Amazon HQ suddenly had too much time and money on their hands and upgraded digital gear, so they stayed afloat. I was a bit worried the inevitable economic shock would threaten the film industry, but same friend said by summer, a lot of people, mostly older photogs, were rediscovering film and developing at home again and it was one of their best years for film/paper.

I myself took a long break from shooting (I do this full time and it made me question life decisions) until about September, and am back to burning through 2-3 rolls a week. I’ve got time to think creatively instead of chasing work, and it keeps me away from the computer.
 
The 'resurgence' in film use probably means that film has gone from 1% of it's peak sales to 2% of it's peak sales.
So that those hopeful headlines along the lines of 'Film use has doubled in the last 5 years!' are probably true but...….
 
I am just happy that its still being made and we can buy film...if you are into still film photography as a hobby then the sacrifice of a higher film price then before is worth it...but everyone has their tipping point when it seems too exorbitantly expensive to continue to shoot film.

As another RFF member said, the higher film price is offset with the present low cost of high quality used film camera gear if you want to get into it from ground level.
 
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